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Brightline Provides a Ray of Hope


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#1 George K

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 07:08 AM

https://spectator.or...-a-ray-of-hope/


4/1/1955 - NYC "Pacemaker" - NYP to CHI; 9/14 - EB - CHI to PDX , CS - PDX to EMY, CZ - EMY to CHI; 3/15 CONO - Round trip; 9/15 CL CHI to WAS, Acela WAS to BOS, LSL BOS to CHI; 11/15 CONO - Round trip; 5/16 EB - Round trip; 12/16 CONO -  Round Trip; 5/17 EB - Round trip; 10/17 CONO - Round trip

#2 cpotisch

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 09:07 AM

I know this isn’t the point, but:

each train set will use two 4400 horsepower 16 cylinder Siemens Charger Diesel engines


The SCB-40s have 4,000 horsepower. Once again, my point about mainstream outlets almost always failing to get basic train info right, is shown.
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Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
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#3 jis

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 10:24 AM

That's right. An acid test of whether the person actually has some depth of knowledge is whether they think that Brightline uses a straight off the shelf SC-44 or not. :)

 

There are several errors of detail...

 

What truly makes Brightline unique, however, is that it is completely privatized and all components of the rail line will be under the control of FECI.

 

 

Brightline solves these issues by owning the tracks, trains, and stations on which all of their trains run.

No. The rail line between Miami and Cocoa will continue to be owned and operated by FECR which is owned by Grupo Mexico, which has nothing to do with Brightline other than a contractual relationship. The route and even the Brightline owned trackage between Cocoa and Orlando, and eventually Tampa, will be dispatched by the Florida Dispatching Company, which is partly owned by Brghtline, not wholly owned by it.

 

Brightline solves this by having good contracts in place, something that anyone else could do if there was some semblance of honesty in dealing involved on the part of all participants.

 

The current Brightline trains operate on the tracks of the Florida East Coast Railway, a freight line that is owned by Florida East Coast Industries, which is also the parent company of All Aboard Florida, which will operate and maintain the trains.

No. FECR is not owned by FECI. To reiterate, FECR is owned by Grupo Mexico. FECI, which owns Brightline, is owned by the Fortress Group, which is owned by Softbank.

 

 

FECI has had to upgrade the track and street crossings while also installing a Positive Train Control (PTC) signaling system

It is FECR that is doing those upgrades, not FECI. It is FECR which will be upgrading and douboling its railroad from West Palm Beach to Cocoa, not FECI. I am sure Craig Asplund should be delighted to learn that he is reporting to a boss that is not the right one :P

 

 

This makes it the second-fastest passenger rail system in the United States after Amtrak’s Acela Express (which operates at 150 MPH between Washington and Boston).

 

Of course we shall completely ignore the Northeast Regionals. Afterall we are on a roll at 125mph ;)


Edited by jis, 14 August 2018 - 03:39 PM.

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#4 cpotisch

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 10:47 AM

That's right. An acid test of whether the person actually has some depth of knowledge is whether they think that Brightline uses a straight off the shelf SC-44 or not. :)

 

There are several errors of detail...

 

What truly makes Brightline unique, however, is that it is completely privatized and all components of the rail line will be under the control of FECI.

 

 

Brightline solves these issues by owning the tracks, trains, and stations on which all of their trains run.

No. The rail line between Miami and Cocoa will continue to be owned and operated by FECR which is owned by Grupo Mexico, which has nothing to do with Brightline other than a contractual relationship. The route and even the Brightline owned trackage between Cocoa and Orlando, and eventually Tampa, will be dispatched by the Florida Dispatching Company, which is partly owned by Brghtline, not wholly owned by it.

 

Brightline solves this by having good contracts in place, something that anyone else could do if there was some semblance of honesty in dealing involved on the part of all participants.

 

The current Brightline trains operate on the tracks of the Florida East Coast Railway, a freight line that is owned by Florida East Coast Industries, which is also the parent company of All Aboard Florida, which will operate and maintain the trains.

No. FECR is not owned by FECI. To reiterate, FECR is owned by Grupo Mexico. FECI, which owns Brightline, is owned by the Fortress Group, which is owned by Softbank.

 

 

FECI has had to upgrade the track and street crossings while also installing a Positive Train Control (PTC) signaling system

It is FECR that is doing those upgrades, not FECI. It is FECR which will be upgrading and douboling its railroad from West Palm Beach to Cocoa, not FECI. I am sure Craig Asplund should be delighted to learn that he is reporting to a boss that is not the right one :P

 

 

This makes it the second-fastest passenger rail system in the United States after Amtrak’s Acela Express (which operates at 150 MPH between Washington and Boston).

 

Of course we shall completely ignore the Northeast Regionals. Afterall we are on a roll at 125mph ;)

 

This guy has really not done much homework at all.

Exactly. I guess I was too lazy to look it up myself, but I would have sworn that the NERs run at 125. Is it true though that Brightline will tie with InterCity 125 for the title of world's fastest diesel train?


Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome


#5 George K

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 11:05 AM

I know this isn’t the point, but:

each train set will use two 4400 horsepower 16 cylinder Siemens Charger Diesel engines


The SCB-40s have 4,000 horsepower. Once again, my point about mainstream outlets almost always failing to get basic train info right, is shown.

 

Well yeah. That comment about the Acela running at 150 mph "between Washington and Boston" is not completely accurate, is it. How long does it really achieve and keep those speeds, half an hour?


4/1/1955 - NYC "Pacemaker" - NYP to CHI; 9/14 - EB - CHI to PDX , CS - PDX to EMY, CZ - EMY to CHI; 3/15 CONO - Round trip; 9/15 CL CHI to WAS, Acela WAS to BOS, LSL BOS to CHI; 11/15 CONO - Round trip; 5/16 EB - Round trip; 12/16 CONO -  Round Trip; 5/17 EB - Round trip; 10/17 CONO - Round trip

#6 jis

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 11:06 AM

There are many diesel trains, specially DMUs that operate now at upto 125mph. IC125 was the first to run at that speed in commercial service.

 

All in all there is about 50 miles +/e of 150mph trackage if that, as I recall. So ....


Edited by jis, 06 August 2018 - 11:07 AM.


#7 cpotisch

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 11:14 AM

 

I know this isn’t the point, but:

each train set will use two 4400 horsepower 16 cylinder Siemens Charger Diesel engines


The SCB-40s have 4,000 horsepower. Once again, my point about mainstream outlets almost always failing to get basic train info right, is shown.

 

Well yeah. That comment about the Acela running at 150 mph "between Washington and Boston" is not completely accurate, is it. How long does it really achieve and keep those speeds, half an hour?

 

There's a portion in Connecticut where it runs at 150 mph, but I thought that was the only part north of NYP where it does that. I'm trying to remember, does it offer go 150 south of New York?


Edited by cpotisch, 06 August 2018 - 11:14 AM.

Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome


#8 jis

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 11:54 AM

 

 

I know this isn’t the point, but:

each train set will use two 4400 horsepower 16 cylinder Siemens Charger Diesel engines


The SCB-40s have 4,000 horsepower. Once again, my point about mainstream outlets almost always failing to get basic train info right, is shown.

 

Well yeah. That comment about the Acela running at 150 mph "between Washington and Boston" is not completely accurate, is it. How long does it really achieve and keep those speeds, half an hour?

 

There's a portion in Connecticut where it runs at 150 mph, but I thought that was the only part north of NYP where it does that. I'm trying to remember, does it offer go 150 south of New York?

 

Which portion of Connecticut do you believe it runs at 150mph?

 

There are two 150mph segments at present. One is in Rhode Island and the other is in Massachusetts. It does not run at 150mph anywhere else at present. The next segment on which it might run at 150mph is likely in NJ but that has been pushed back to at least 2019, and perhaps later now.

 

There are a couple of segments south of New York where it runs at 135mph at present.



#9 cpotisch

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 12:15 PM

 

 

 

I know this isn’t the point, but:

each train set will use two 4400 horsepower 16 cylinder Siemens Charger Diesel engines


The SCB-40s have 4,000 horsepower. Once again, my point about mainstream outlets almost always failing to get basic train info right, is shown.

 

Well yeah. That comment about the Acela running at 150 mph "between Washington and Boston" is not completely accurate, is it. How long does it really achieve and keep those speeds, half an hour?

 

There's a portion in Connecticut where it runs at 150 mph, but I thought that was the only part north of NYP where it does that. I'm trying to remember, does it offer go 150 south of New York?

 

Which portion of Connecticut do you believe it runs at 150mph?

 

There are two 150mph segments at present. One is in Rhode Island and the other is in Massachusetts. It does not run at 150mph anywhere else at present. The next segment on which it might run at 150mph is likely in NJ but that has been pushed back to at least 2019, and perhaps later now.

 

There are a couple of segments south of New York where it runs at 135mph at present.

 

Thanks. I've only taken Acela once (BOS-NYP) and that was several years ago, so I don't have a very good sense or memory of where we went fast.


Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome


#10 AGM.12

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 07:55 PM

I am willing to cut this fellow some slack since the essence of his column is why Amtrak cannot be as proactive as Brightline seems to be.



#11 cpotisch

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 07:59 PM

I am willing to cut this fellow some slack since the essence of his column is why Amtrak cannot be as proactive as Brightline seems to be.

I don't quite see the connection. He said a bunch of nonsense that isn't true that he could easily have looked up to verify. If it was a couple minor errors, I might cut some slack, but he said a lot of pretty noticeable falsehoods.


Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome


#12 VentureForth

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:24 AM

Cut the kid a little slack:
 

Joseph Gerig is a student at American University and a development intern. He also writes on transportation through the Young Writers’ Program.


Don't excuse his errors, point them out and teach him. As for his other errors, much of it was true when Brightline started. Didn't the FECR/FECI split happen like 3-4 years ago? I think these contracts are so good because when they were initiated, it was designed by one parent company.

Edited by VentureForth, 09 August 2018 - 07:50 AM.

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#13 Anderson

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:37 PM

Yeah, AAF was originally wrapped up with one of the two sides when the split happened, so technically it was on company-owned tracks (albeit with an internal legal buffer to hopefully prevent this from bringing down the railroad if it went sour).  Many of the other errors were technical slips (NE Regionals are on the same tracks as the Acela, and IIRC that's the only other 125+ track in the US; there are other diesel options out there that also do 125 or so, but nothing has beaten it...so it's technically a multi-way tie, not a two-way tie with the UK's Intercity 125s).

So while I won't give the guy a Pulitzer, I can understand where most of the mixups came from...many of them are from actual basic research rather than not doing basic research...but heck, I think some of us have had trouble tracking the moving corporate structures and the like.


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Amtrak mileage to date: Somewhere between 120,000 and 150,000 miles...I /really/ need to run all of my trips through a calculator sometime.

...and no, I am not /that/ Anderson...;-)


#14 VentureForth

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 06:21 AM

Lol... I accidentally found him on Facebook scrolling through there Amtrak Fans group videos. Name like that isn't hard to miss.

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#15 VentureForth

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 06:27 AM

I sent him an IM. We'll see of he responds

Edited by VentureForth, 12 August 2018 - 06:28 AM.

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Completed Routes: Capitol Limited, Palmetto
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#16 VentureForth

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 01:49 PM

He responded! Was very gracious and admitted that he was basing on some old research. I invited him here to get the latest and greatest truth. lol
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Also Ridden: Carolinian, Crescent, Pacific Surfliner, Piedmont, Southwest Chief, Silver Meteor, Silver Star, Texas Eagle


#17 cpotisch

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 01:13 PM

He responded! Was very gracious and admitted that he was basing on some old research. I invited him here to get the latest and greatest truth. lol

That's great. Did he say if he's actually going to correct that stuff, though?


Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome


#18 VentureForth

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Posted 16 August 2018 - 02:18 PM

He responded! Was very gracious and admitted that he was basing on some old research. I invited him here to get the latest and greatest truth. lol

That's great. Did he say if he's actually going to correct that stuff, though?


He didn't say...

14,223 Amtrak Miles. Many more to go.
Completed Routes: Capitol Limited, Palmetto
Also Ridden: Carolinian, Crescent, Pacific Surfliner, Piedmont, Southwest Chief, Silver Meteor, Silver Star, Texas Eagle


#19 cpotisch

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Posted 16 August 2018 - 02:21 PM

 

 

He responded! Was very gracious and admitted that he was basing on some old research. I invited him here to get the latest and greatest truth. lol

That's great. Did he say if he's actually going to correct that stuff, though?
He didn't say...

Yeah, I'm gonna assume that that means no.


Edited by cpotisch, 16 August 2018 - 03:13 PM.

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Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
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#20 MikefromCrete

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Posted 16 August 2018 - 06:17 PM

I'm sure the average reader would appreciate the 4,400 vs. 4,000 horsepower question as well as the extremely complicated relationship between Brightline, FEC Industries, FEC railroad and various holding companies. Face it, folks, the average reader cares nothing about such details, only railfans obsess about them. 


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