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Another airline pulls out of MSP-ORD


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#41 MARC Rider

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 12:01 PM

Around 1987, I flew from Denver to BWI. The flight was scheduled with one stop along the way. The stop was Dulles. So got to enjoy as 15 minute Dulles to BWI flight in a DC-8. I don't know whether they sold tickets for the Dulles to BWI segment.

#42 jis

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 12:04 PM

Airlines back then used to do stuff that would be considered completely bizarre today :D



#43 railiner

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 01:26 PM

At one time United had regular positioning flights between SFO and Oakland (allegedly including a wide-body one) on which they sold tickets. I have no idea how popular they were.

UAL having it's main maintenance base at SFO probably had a lot to do with that...


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#44 railiner

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 01:33 PM

One of the most "bizarre" flights I recall, was United's local flight from Salt Lake City to Reno, stopping in Elko and Ely.   Even the 737-100's were too big for that flight, so they contracted with Frontier to fly it, using Convair 580's.   They had Frontier pilot's, and United flight attendants, IIRC, and were sold as United flights.  Were even catered by United's flight kitchen...


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#45 fairviewroad

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 02:08 PM

Airlines back then used to do stuff that would be considered completely bizarre today :D

 

Like serving hot meals and offering free checked bags in domestic coach?

 

EEK!


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#46 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 05:06 PM

 

Airlines back then used to do stuff that would be considered completely bizarre today :D

 

Like serving hot meals and offering free checked bags in domestic coach? EEK!

 

I don't miss food on coach flights, if I have to eat I'd rather grab something at the airport anyway, but can we at least get the carry-on liquid/gel/aerosol limit raised to 150ml?  That way I wouldn't have to check luggage on most mainline flights.


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#47 BCL

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 05:30 PM

One of the most "bizarre" flights I recall, was United's local flight from Salt Lake City to Reno, stopping in Elko and Ely.   Even the 737-100's were too big for that flight, so they contracted with Frontier to fly it, using Convair 580's.   They had Frontier pilot's, and United flight attendants, IIRC, and were sold as United flights.  Were even catered by United's flight kitchen...

 

Too big as in not enough runway or too big as not enough passengers most of the time?  A 737 doesn't really need that much runway.  They regularly use John Wayne Airport, which is 5700 ft long and has a really crazy typical takeoff procedure given the noise-abatement requirements.  Boeing delivers 737s out of Renton Airport, which is even shorter.



#48 PVD

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 05:42 PM

has to be passenger load, neither elko nor ely are that short, although ely's runways are not in good shape anymore


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#49 cpotisch

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 06:18 PM

 

One of the most "bizarre" flights I recall, was United's local flight from Salt Lake City to Reno, stopping in Elko and Ely.   Even the 737-100's were too big for that flight, so they contracted with Frontier to fly it, using Convair 580's.   They had Frontier pilot's, and United flight attendants, IIRC, and were sold as United flights.  Were even catered by United's flight kitchen...

 

Too big as in not enough runway or too big as not enough passengers most of the time?  A 737 doesn't really need that much runway.  They regularly use John Wayne Airport, which is 5700 ft long and has a really crazy typical takeoff procedure given the noise-abatement requirements.  Boeing delivers 737s out of Renton Airport, which is even shorter.

 

Passenger load.


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#50 Bob Dylan

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 06:56 PM


 


Airlines back then used to do stuff that would be considered completely bizarre today :D

 
Like serving hot meals and offering free checked bags in domestic coach? EEK!
 
I don't miss food on coach flights, if I have to eat I'd rather grab something at the airport anyway, but can we at least get the carry-on liquid/gel/aerosol limit raised to 150ml?  That way I wouldn't have to check luggage on most mainline flights.
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#51 BCL

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 07:15 PM

has to be passenger load, neither elko nor ely are that short, although ely's runways are not in good shape anymore


Longer than SNA, but then I realized its at high altitude.

#52 PVD

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 07:35 PM

Flights that short wouldn't need to carry heavy fuel loads. Skywest flys it with 50 seat Canadair RJ's for Delta to this day....



#53 railiner

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 08:46 PM

Here's an excerpt from the 'wikipedia' on Elko airport

 

"Starting in November 1977 United Boeing 737-200 jetliners operated round trip San Francisco - Reno - Elko - Ely - Salt Lake City service; however in 1982 United ended this flight, which had been previously operated with a Douglas DC-6B aircraft which in turn was United's last piston powered service in the U.S.[5] In the April 27, 1969 United timetable a DC-6 was listed as the aircraft type operating San Francisco - Oakland - Reno - Elko - Ely - Salt Lake City service; the return trip skipped Oakland. This was the only piston flight in the timetable at the time. In 1970 United replaced the DC-6 service with Convair 580 turboprops operated by Frontier Airlines (1950-1986) via a subcontract arrangement; the flights used the "UA" airline code[6] until 737s took over."

 

So apparently, when UAL retired its last piston DC-6B, in 1970, they did not have an aircraft suitable for that portion, and contracted with the old Frontier until November of 1977, when they started using their own 737-200's.   And in 1982, they ceased running the route, altogether.

 

So I remembered the Frontier operation, but not all the details... :) 


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#54 PVD

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:14 AM

That is a clearer narrative. In the original you had mentioned 737-100. United never had them, their first 737s were 200 series. Actually, very few 737-100 were built, of the 1144 first gen 737, only 30 were built. Mostly went to Lufthansa. Half of them ended up here with People Express. and then over to Continental. They used to on a couple of routes where they could get them back to Newark for regular maintenance. I came back from Empire State Games in Buffalo on one BUF-EWR, right before they (thankfully) were retired.



#55 railiner

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:39 AM

I always liked the looks of those "baby Boeing's"... I would rather fly in one of them, then the current cramped regional jets.

And they were just as wide as their big brother 707-Intercontinental's.

 

Reminds me of the story of a short line railroad president.   It was customary years ago, for railroad president's to exchange annual passes with other railroad president's, as a 'courtesy'...

So the president of this short line sends one of his, to the president of one of the mighty trunk lines.   Not receiving one in return, he writes a letter, inquiring the reason.   The trunk line president answers back, saying that his line is 10,000 miles long, and the short line is only 39 miles long, and you expect reciprocity?

The short line president answered back stating that the trunk line may be much longer than his, but its track was no wider...

The story goes on that the trunk line president had such a good laugh over that, that he went ahead and rewarded the short line president with an annual pass... :)


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#56 cpotisch

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:15 AM

Flights that short wouldn't need to carry heavy fuel loads. Skywest flys it with 50 seat Canadair RJ's for Delta to this day....

Often with really short flights they will actually fuel it up for the way there and back, to save time. For those distances, it's worth it to cut the turn around time and hassle, even if the outgoing flight is a bit less efficient.

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#57 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:26 AM


I always liked the looks of those "baby Boeing's"... I would rather fly in one of them, then the current cramped regional jets. And they were just as wide as their big brother 707-Intercontinental's.

 

I'm not a fan of scheduled service regional jets but the B732 is one of the ugliest mainline aircraft I've ever flown. The combination of torpedo engines hanging off a stubby wing connected to a bloated fuselage was visually unappealing and comically disproportionate.  The TOGO stage cabin noise was almost unbearable and I'm pretty sure I lost some permanent hearing along the way. :wacko: Needless to say I was glad to see them removed and retired.  Then again the aircraft I find most aesthetically pleasing is the A346, which is about as far from a 732 as you can get.

 

737-200-N93SW.jpg


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#58 PVD

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:28 AM

Airlines have gotten very careful about fuel. They will calculate everything that influences costs down to price at specific locations to determine whether to carry more versus the added cost of fuel burnt to carry the weight. They run computer profiles to calculate optimum climb and decent, hoping weather and ATC cooperate.  If the choice is : I can fly this route given the runway length and altitude or temp vs I can't if I carry a heavier load, the time to refuel becomes irrelevant. It's around 500 miles from SLC to Reno. I can fly a roundtrip  with somewhat more than a half a fuel load.



#59 PVD

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:34 AM

I will agree. The 737-100/200 was not an attractive plane. The later models (especially the latest) are much better proportioned. Honestly, not an RJ fan, but the Embraer E jets  (170/175/190/195) are not bad at all. 



#60 cpotisch

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:27 AM

Then again the aircraft I find most aesthetically pleasing is the A346, which is about as far from a 732 as you can get.

Agreed. It's perfectly proportioned, the four engines are the perfect size and shape. It's the exact opposite of a 737 Classic, and an absolutely gorgeous bird.

maxresdefault.jpg


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