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Next Gen TGV Duplex


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#1 frequentflyer

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 03:41 PM

http://railcolornews...train-for-sncf/

 

Yes, its looks very similar to Acela 2s.



#2 jis

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 04:09 PM

It is bilevel though, unlike the Acela 2s

#3 seat38a

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 05:33 PM

Well it has the same name as the Acela 2, Avelia.



#4 frequentflyer

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 10:25 PM

Same power cars. Amtrak is getting a legit TGV clone.

#5 jis

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 06:19 AM

Yes. There was never a doubt that Avelia Liberty is a TGV clone, and the real evidence is the use of articulating Jacobs bogies (trucks)

#6 cirdan

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 09:44 AM

Yes. There was never a doubt that Avelia Liberty is a TGV clone, and the real evidence is the use of articulating Jacobs bogies (trucks)

 

Any idea why this was not done for the original Acela.



#7 jis

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 10:26 AM

 

Yes. There was never a doubt that Avelia Liberty is a TGV clone, and the real evidence is the use of articulating Jacobs bogies (trucks)

 

Any idea why this was not done for the original Acela.

 

The RFP for that apparently specified 85' cars I think. That eliminated any wiggle room for the bidders to specify more appropriate technology/train architecture, and certainly eliminated anything like the TGV. It also did not require that anything that has ever worked anywhere be the basis for the response. So it became an exercise in the creation of a random collection of backward looking innovations slapped together, with constant modification requests from Amtrak. The result was almost predictable. Fortunately at least they did not revert back to gunslit windows, which by then had become contrary to fire regulations too I think. :D

 

In contrast, this time the RFP contained a set of performance requirements and asked the vendors to propose something to meet those requirements. Vendor proposals were then accepted with minimal change requests at least upto that point. I don;t know if things have gotten messed up since then.


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#8 PerRock

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 12:29 PM

Yes. There was never a doubt that Avelia Liberty is a TGV clone, and the real evidence is the use of articulating Jacobs bogies (trucks)

 
Any idea why this was not done for the original Acela.


Because the Acela Is were made by Bombardier, and all the TGVs are made by Alstom. The Acela Is are an evolution of the Bombardier LRCs.

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#9 jis

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 12:39 PM

 

 

Yes. There was never a doubt that Avelia Liberty is a TGV clone, and the real evidence is the use of articulating Jacobs bogies (trucks)

 
Any idea why this was not done for the original Acela.
 
Because the Acela Is were made by Bombardier, and all the TGVs are made by Alstom. The Acela Is are an evolution of the Bombardier LRCs.

peter
 
The power heads for Acela are essentially an Alstom product though.

BTW, another new gen TGV derivative:

https://www.railwayg...-trainsets.html

Edited by jis, 31 July 2018 - 05:43 PM.


#10 Metra Electric Rider

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 08:41 PM

 

 

 

Yes. There was never a doubt that Avelia Liberty is a TGV clone, and the real evidence is the use of articulating Jacobs bogies (trucks)

 
Any idea why this was not done for the original Acela.
 
Because the Acela Is were made by Bombardier, and all the TGVs are made by Alstom. The Acela Is are an evolution of the Bombardier LRCs.

peter
 
The power heads for Acela are essentially an Alstom product though.

BTW, another new gen TGV derivative:

https://www.railwayg...-trainsets.html

 

 

But will they run on time?


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#11 Andrew

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Posted 16 August 2018 - 07:25 PM

Same power cars. Amtrak is getting a legit TGV clone.

 

What are the transit specifications (locomotive and passenger car length and height) of the new Amtrak Acela 2 Train-sets? 



#12 VentureForth

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 11:31 AM

Interestingly, Japan's Tokaido Shinkansen line ran with 2 of it's 16 cars with double deckers for a while. Then, on the Joetsu, they were running "Max" - a full length duplex unit. But I think all are gone now. Sometimes these trains get REALLY crowded. Wonder why they don't have a modern duplex solution.

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#13 jis

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 11:38 AM

When the Tokaido Shinkansen had double deckers, weren't those the Green Cars?



#14 MattW

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 07:13 PM

With Japan's ingenuity, I'm actually surprised they haven't introduced a full two-level Shinkansen with two-level platforms negating the need for a lot of internal stairways (would still have to exist, just not as many).


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#15 cpotisch

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 08:04 PM

With Japan's ingenuity, I'm actually surprised they haven't introduced a full two-level Shinkansen with two-level platforms negating the need for a lot of internal stairways (would still have to exist, just not as many).

How would they do two level platforms?


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#16 slasher-fun

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 03:44 AM

With Japan's ingenuity, I'm actually surprised they haven't introduced a full two-level Shinkansen with two-level platforms negating the need for a lot of internal stairways (would still have to exist, just not as many).

More doors = less seats.



#17 VentureForth

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 09:13 PM

When the Tokaido Shinkansen had double deckers, weren't those the Green Cars?

I think that's how I remember it. I rode in a green car on the 100 series (the only variant on the Tokaido). There were only 2 double deckers out of 16 cars, and I was on the upper of one. I don't recall the configuration of the other three levels. The downstairs may have had Green compartments. Wow. It's been 30 years since I did that.

I thought I remembered a restaurant car, but thought by the late 80s they were all gone. Wiki has pictures of them, though. They had panoramic windows similar to Superliner lounges. Don't remember those.

Edited by VentureForth, 26 August 2018 - 09:18 PM.

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#18 VentureForth

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 10:46 AM

With Japan's ingenuity, I'm actually surprised they haven't introduced a full two-level Shinkansen with two-level platforms negating the need for a lot of internal stairways (would still have to exist, just not as many).

Like I mentioned, they seem to be shying away from duplex units. Almost all double deck Shinkansen are gone. I'm gonna check the MAX, but I think it's days are numbered if not already extinct.

After looking into it, there are two services out of Tokyo that use all-duplex trainsets. One is 12 cars and the other is 10 cars. Both have a max speed of 240 kph, which is really slow compared to other Shinkansen lines.

Edited by VentureForth, 27 August 2018 - 10:55 AM.

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#19 cpotisch

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:18 AM

There were only 2 double deckers out of 16 cars, and I was on the upper of one. I don't recall the configuration of the other three levels. The downstairs may have had Green compartments. Wow. It's been 30 years since I did that.

How did those two double deckers not result in an incredible amount of drag? They're taller than the single levels, right?


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#20 jis

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 01:11 PM

Same reason that an Airbus 380 does not have an incredible amount of drag :P






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