Experience on the "Nightowl" Trains?

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Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
7
Location
Connecticut
I'll start of by saying this for people who are unsure or confused on what I mean by "Nightowl" trains. Three of the Northeast Regional trains operated have the numbers 66 (NB) and 65/67 (SB Weekday) (SB Weekend) respectively which operate throughout the late-night and early-morning, hence the name. Southbound Nightowl departs Boston at 9:30 PM while the Northbound departs Newport News, VA at 5:20 PM.

I should also note that I'm not referring to the "Nightowl", a train Amtrak formerly operated that followed an identical timetable as the present-day Nightowl, but had Viewliner sleeping coaches.

Anyways, I'll get to my main area of discussion. I'm thinking about heading down to Trenton, NJ for a full day of railfanning and returning home late at night. I'll be leaving from New Haven, CT which the first train of the day is the Nightowl, which departs at 12:50 AM and arrives at Trenton at about 4:30 AM.

I noticed that in general, the Nightowl trains usually take longer between any two points on the Northeast Corridor (+30 Min). I know that they SOMETIMES use diesel locomotives, but I'm not sure how often, and if they don't why would the travel duration be longer? More importantly, for those who have been on it how well was the experience? Were the trains packed, very loud, bumpy, etc? Is it a train you should avoid at all costs or always try to grab a seat on?

I have rode on the Nightowl before, but that was several years ago (2013 I think), and I remember the experience being decent to good, but I'm not sure if that has changed, or if I got lucky that one time I was on it. I also remember it had the split cafe/business class car, which although I don't mind, I favor the full-business coach because of its lack of noise and the amount of space it offers.
 
I've ridden it twice, both times from DC to Boston in Business Class. I don't know how packed coach gets, but Business class (with the split cafe) had a decent load each time I rode. Passengers are pretty quiet since it's overnight, and everyone is trying to catch some sleep. It's no more or less bumpy than any other Northeast Regional. The overall experience isn't really that much different than any other Regional, other than most people are asleep. I believe it runs slower, so it can have decent arrival/departure times in D.C. and Boston. There is also a pretty lengthy stop in NYC.

Also, the train is no longer referred to as the Night Owl.
 
I have taken them numerous times.

Although not as busy as daytime Regionals, they can get busy but there is much space. And the passengers tend to be quite overnight.

Yes, the reason for the slower speeds is for a decent time of arrival in Boston and Washington, instead of arriving at (say) 4:30 am.
 
I have taken these trains quite a bit (mostly from NYP south), and it is surprising how crowded they can be at times. Most passengers will be hoping to get some sleep, but you never know who you will get (for example, a snorer). If you plan on sleeping, I would encourage having a hoodie or something else to cover your eyes as these coaches do not have curtains (just like all the other Regionals) and if my memory is correct, the crew may or may not turn the lights off. Aside from the stop at NYP, the cafe stays open.

One thing to keep an eye out for if you have never been at NHV late at night: does the station itself stay open? Is it policed? Some stations almost entirely close down, like NWK, even if trains are still passing through. I have boarded late (or very early!) trains at NYP, WAS, and LAX, and while the NYP waiting area was secured and well-patrolled, the others could be a little more hit or miss. It may be worth planning a reverse move to PVD/BOS or other steps to get on the train earlier and get something closer to a full night of sleep, if that matters to you.
 
Did it MANY years ago between Boston and DC and between NYC and DC when Amtrak had a sleeper on the train. Very convenient and comfortable ride.
 
Part of the longer schedule is due to a working baggage car on that train. Used for baggage, express shipments, and even some Company material. Used to also handle bulk mail container's.

So longer dwell times at several stations.
 
Anyways, I'll get to my main area of discussion. I'm thinking about heading down to Trenton, NJ for a full day of railfanning and returning home late at night. I'll be leaving from New Haven, CT which the first train of the day is the Nightowl, which departs at 12:50 AM and arrives at Trenton at about 4:30 AM.
Unless you're young enough to 'get by' on a couple hours of not-too-restful sleep, you'd probably be better off catching #141 out of NHV at 7:32 arriving TRE at 10:34. You'll be much more awake, I'm sure. If you really are going to take #67, be sure to bring something to 'stuff' between the sidewall and the arm rest so whatever you use as a pillow won't slide down. I've found a couple of inflatable pillows from Amazon do the trick quite nicely. Given the 'terrible' NHV & TRE departure and arrival times both ways, I'd be concerned about personal safety alone in the station at those hours.

As it turns out, I'll be doing exactly that 8 days from now but I'll be coming down from Windsor Locks. My goal is to ride the last 2 NJT routes I haven't covered yet...the Princeton dinky and the Atlantic City line. In my retirement, I've been 'exploring' various commuter lines from NYC and am limited by having to catch #148 back. Now that they've moved that 2 hours later, It opens up a number of opportunities for me. Although on this trip, instead of heading home, I'll end up at WAS for the night and then out on the Cardinal the next morning to CHI for do a day of riding commuter trains and then returning home on the Lakeshore Ltd.
 
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This is what business class should be on the "Night Owl". It is Delta's version of lay-flat seating so Mr. Anderson should be well aware of it.

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I'm thinking about heading down to Trenton, NJ for a full day of railfanning and returning home late at night.

arrives at Trenton at about 4:30 AM.

I know that they SOMETIMES use diesel locomotives
I can tell you that Trenton is a good place to Railfan... BUT! Trenton is NOT a nice place to be at around 4:30 am. If you really want to go there for a full day of railfanning I suggest taking Metro North to Grand Central and then walking to NYP to connect with Transit or Amtrak.

Diesels are usually cut off at New Haven IF they are leading. If they are trailing they're on till DC. But if the diesel is on the train it won't effect the schedule at all. 65/67 are scheduled for 110 MPH operation which is what the P42's are capped at.

This is what business class should be on the "Night Owl". It is Delta's version of lay-flat seating so Mr. Anderson should be well aware of it.

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Amtrak has that. It's called the Sleeping Car.
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How long has it been since the overnight northeast regionals have had sleeper service,

and is anyone aware of any future plans to add them back?

Was there a demand for them?
 
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The night owl had quite bit of demand. The only reason they cut the sleepers is a shortage of equipment when the heritage fleet was benched. They want to put sleepers back when they finally get the VL2 sleepers operating.
 
How long has it been since the overnight northeast regionals have had sleeper service,

and is anyone aware of any future plans to add them back?

Was there a demand for them?
Well my personal experience is as follows:

In the early 80's my wife was very pregnant and we had a roomette booked from Washington to Boston. When we got to the roomette, ticket in hand, it was already occupied by another couple having duplicate tickets. The attendant said the sleeper was sold out and he was going to have to put us in coach. The trip would have been very uncomfortable for my wife in her condition. He said there was nothing he could do.

Then I had a brain storm. An option that wasn't offered. Could he put us in the Executive Sleeper to NYP and then put us on the first train to Boston in the morning. Affirmative. They even sent a Redcap to the sleeper in the morning and escorted us to the Boston train.

So in my case there was too much demand
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As some posters above have mentioned, it may work better for you to take NER #141 instead. If you do decide to go on #67, I agree, the arrival and departure times in those cities aren't favorable, to say the least. I would be less concerned at NHV, due to both its location and the fact that it's earlier. If you feel uncomfortable, I suppose you could always wait in the tunnels which take you from the station to the platforms, or even on one of the platforms.

I can't speak to the number of police who are around at that time.

Also, why are diesels sometimes used instead of the ACS-64s? Isn't Amtrak low on P42s?
 
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As some posters above have mentioned, it may work better for you to take NER #141 instead. If you do decide to go on #67, I agree, the arrival and departure times in those cities aren't favorable, to say the least. I would be less concerned at NHV, due to both its location and the fact that it's earlier. If you feel uncomfortable, I suppose you could always wait in the tunnels which take you from the station to the platforms, or even on one of the platforms.

As some posters above have mentioned, it may work better for you to take NER #141 instead. If you do decide to go on #67, I agree, the arrival and departure times in those cities aren't favorable, to say the least. I would be less concerned at NHV, due to both its location and the fact that it's earlier. If you feel uncomfortable, I suppose you could always wait in the tunnels which take you from the station to the platforms, or even on one of the platforms.

I can't speak to the number of police who are around at that time.

Also, why are diesels sometimes used instead of the ACS-64s? Isn't Amtrak low on P42s?

Diesels usually due to some section(s) CAT turned off for what ever reason .
I can't speak to the number of police who are around at that time.

Also, why are diesels sometimes used instead of the ACS-64s? Isn't Amtrak low on P42s?
Unless I'm mistaken, typically heavy maintenance is done in DC or Boston. That's why if a P42 comes up from DC it's usually behind the ACS64, both get cut in NHV, just to toss another ACS64 on to finish the run to Boston.
 
Most maintenance is done at Ivy City on the electric side of the fleet. Diesels usually Chicago. IINM. The only reason they’ll rip off a unit in Boston or Sunneyside is if it needs to be shopped. Anything else goes to Wilmington or Beech Grove.
 
This is what business class should be on the "Night Owl". It is Delta's version of lay-flat seating so Mr. Anderson should be well aware of it.

attachicon.gif
mini suite.jpg
I'm thinking about heading down to Trenton, NJ for a full day of railfanning and returning home late at night.

arrives at Trenton at about 4:30 AM.

I know that they SOMETIMES use diesel locomotives
I can tell you that Trenton is a good place to Railfan... BUT! Trenton is NOT a nice place to be at around 4:30 am. If you really want to go there for a full day of railfanning I suggest taking Metro North to Grand Central and then walking to NYP to connect with Transit or Amtrak.

Diesels are usually cut off at New Haven IF they are leading. If they are trailing they're on till DC. But if the diesel is on the train it won't effect the schedule at all. 65/67 are scheduled for 110 MPH operation which is what the P42's are capped at.

This is what business class should be on the "Night Owl". It is Delta's version of lay-flat seating so Mr. Anderson should be well aware of it.

attachicon.gif
mini suite.jpg
Amtrak has that. It's called the Sleeping Car.
default_wink.png
Not at all. Half the price and a totally new market priced between coach and sleeper.
 
Most maintenance is done at Ivy City on the electric side of the fleet. Diesels usually Chicago. IINM. The only reason they’ll rip off a unit in Boston or Sunneyside is if it needs to be shopped. Anything else goes to Wilmington or Beech Grove.
I guess heavy maintenance wasn't the best way of describing it. Basically I'm trying to tell them there isn't much of a shop in NHV, and anything other than fairly simple tasks will likely have to be taken care of elsewhere.
 
.

Diesels are usually cut off at New Haven IF they are leading. If they are trailing they're on till DC. But if the diesel is on the train it won't effect the schedule at all. 65/67 are scheduled for 110 MPH operation which is what the P42's are capped at.

Diesels haven't led the night owl to NHV since the AEM-7s were retired and 65/66/67s schedule haven't been timed for 110mph for a few years. They use diesels between WAS-NYP for scheduled catenary outages. Increasingly, they just grab a work train diesel and add ahead though the limits of the outage. On the New Haven/Boston end, increasingly a SPG shuttle set is added ahead.

The schedule allows for most of these moves.

FYI, 65/66/67 has operated with a full business class since the diversion to GCT began.
I’ll assume that’s due to not easily being able to drill out cars if the needs arise.
It allows ALB to have protection since moving cars out of the line takes a long time.
 
This is what business class should be on the "Night Owl". It is Delta's version of lay-flat seating so Mr. Anderson should be well aware of it.

attachicon.gif
mini suite.jpg
I'm thinking about heading down to Trenton, NJ for a full day of railfanning and returning home late at night.

arrives at Trenton at about 4:30 AM.

I know that they SOMETIMES use diesel locomotives
I can tell you that Trenton is a good place to Railfan... BUT! Trenton is NOT a nice place to be at around 4:30 am. If you really want to go there for a full day of railfanning I suggest taking Metro North to Grand Central and then walking to NYP to connect with Transit or Amtrak.

Diesels are usually cut off at New Haven IF they are leading. If they are trailing they're on till DC. But if the diesel is on the train it won't effect the schedule at all. 65/67 are scheduled for 110 MPH operation which is what the P42's are capped at.

This is what business class should be on the "Night Owl". It is Delta's version of lay-flat seating so Mr. Anderson should be well aware of it.

attachicon.gif
mini suite.jpg
Amtrak has that. It's called the Sleeping Car.
default_wink.png
Not at all. Half the price and a totally new market priced between coach and sleeper.
You can’t sell something like that on Amtrak. Amtrak has sleeping cars for those who want a bed. If you sell the kind of business class you’re referring to then you’d have people complaining that one business class is seating only and another business class has beds.
 
This is what business class should be on the "Night Owl". It is Delta's version of lay-flat seating so Mr. Anderson should be well aware of it.

attachicon.gif
mini suite.jpg
I'm thinking about heading down to Trenton, NJ for a full day of railfanning and returning home late at night.

arrives at Trenton at about 4:30 AM.

I know that they SOMETIMES use diesel locomotives
I can tell you that Trenton is a good place to Railfan... BUT! Trenton is NOT a nice place to be at around 4:30 am. If you really want to go there for a full day of railfanning I suggest taking Metro North to Grand Central and then walking to NYP to connect with Transit or Amtrak.

Diesels are usually cut off at New Haven IF they are leading. If they are trailing they're on till DC. But if the diesel is on the train it won't effect the schedule at all. 65/67 are scheduled for 110 MPH operation which is what the P42's are capped at.

This is what business class should be on the "Night Owl". It is Delta's version of lay-flat seating so Mr. Anderson should be well aware of it.

attachicon.gif
mini suite.jpg
Amtrak has that. It's called the Sleeping Car.
default_wink.png
Not at all. Half the price and a totally new market priced between coach and sleeper.
You can’t sell something like that on Amtrak. Amtrak has sleeping cars for those who want a bed. If you sell the kind of business class you’re referring to then you’d have people complaining that one business class is seating only and another business class has beds.
Okay, call it something else then. How about "Night Owl Nests"
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Seriously though, offer "Night Business Class" and "Day Business Class" to differentiate?
 
The reason that it is unlikely that airline style lie flat seats will be provided for a lower fare than Roomettes is that they effectively reduce the capacity of a car since they have a larger footprint per berth than Roometttes. They are also a higher maintenance component than Roomette Berths. It won't happen.

Also, no one will create three or four cars of a different type to run on a single trains. The days of hand crafted Sleeping accommodation in a car a-la the Hilltopper are long gone.
 
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