Jump to content




Help Support AmtrakTrains.com by donating using the link above or becoming a Supporting Member.

Photo

Advice for First-Time Flyers


  • Please log in to reply
71 replies to this topic

#61 jis

jis

    Engineer

  • Gathering Team Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,514 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
  • Interests:Trains, Planes and Travel

Posted 19 June 2018 - 02:18 PM

I recall when they had an interchange flight with Braniff...LHR-IAD-DFW....
They remained subsonic, although faster than anything else, while operated by Braniff... :)

Yes, they did. LHR - IAD - DFW was BA/Braniff and CDG - JFK - DFW was AF/Braniff (or maybe it was the other way round - don;t quite recall, but both LHR and CDG were involved with BA and AF respectively). To avoid cabotage issues, the aircraft changed registration and lease ownership for the US leg to Braniff.This included putting a US registration number sticker covering the British/French registration on the plane for the duration of its flight within the US. It was really quite curious.



#62 cpotisch

cpotisch

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,144 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY
  • Interests:Planes, Trains, Cooking, Politics

Posted 19 June 2018 - 02:43 PM

 

I don't know about after-burner's in a civilian aircraft, other than the Concorde, which did not engage them until well off the coast. What really gave those early 707's smoke, was water-injection, used for extra takeoff thrust, IIRC


Your 707 explanation is correct, at least so far as I am aware, but the Concorde afterburners were actually engaged during takeoff, then disengaged shortly afterward while flying over land and then reengaged over the ocean again until nominal cruising speed was attained.

 

Yeah, the Concorde engaged afterburners on takeoff, disengaged them while flying over land, and then had to engage them again to punch through the sound barrier. Once it was at cruising speed, they disengaged the burners and supercruised from there on out.


Edited by cpotisch, 19 June 2018 - 02:44 PM.

Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome


#63 trainman74

trainman74

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,386 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sherman Oaks, CA

Posted 19 June 2018 - 04:23 PM

To avoid cabotage issues, the aircraft changed registration and lease ownership for the US leg to Braniff.This included putting a US registration number sticker covering the British/French registration on the plane for the duration of its flight within the US. It was really quite curious.


Too bad this never actually existed:

sSQlOmm.jpg

#64 MARC Rider

MARC Rider

    Conductor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 964 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Baltimore. MD

Posted 19 June 2018 - 05:07 PM

Back around 1962 or thereabouts, my first flight was BAL (that was the code back then, BWI was the code for sime airport in Papua New Guinea) to MIA on a DC7. Talk about noisy in the cabin with 4 piston engines making quite the racket. We also flew at relatively low altitude, in and out of the cloulds and a rode like a roller coaster. When I was 15, I had an adventure of a charter flight with the Scouts in a DC4, 13 hours from Spokane to Philly, including a fueling stop in Rockford, IL. That was also pretty noisy. In fact, the turboprop commuter flights I've been on have also been more noisy than a jet, even the older jets. Is the main noise factor the enginr type (piston vs turbo) or the presence or absence of propellors as thrust generator?

Edited by MARC Rider, 19 June 2018 - 05:08 PM.


#65 cpotisch

cpotisch

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,144 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY
  • Interests:Planes, Trains, Cooking, Politics

Posted 19 June 2018 - 05:23 PM

In fact, the turboprop commuter flights I've been on have also been more noisy than a jet, even the older jets. Is the main noise factor the enginr type (piston vs turbo) or the presence or absence of propellors as thrust generator?


Because the propellers are whipping through the air without anything enclosing it (which you would have in a jet), there isn’t much sheltering you from the sound of large metal blades whipping through the air. Also bear in mind that many turboprop aircraft in commercial service tend to be on the older side, and since they’re often pretty small, you might not be far from the engines. I would also note that the props are usually directly in front of the wings, whereas jet engines are forward and beneath he wings. Most of the noise you hear realize from a jet engine is the exhaust; which would be sheltered from passengers by the wing. Meanwhile the props are high up and right next to where the passengers are, which makes them that much noisier.

Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome


#66 railiner

railiner

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,530 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens, NY
  • Interests:All public transportation....land, sea, and air

Posted 19 June 2018 - 08:47 PM

 

To avoid cabotage issues, the aircraft changed registration and lease ownership for the US leg to Braniff.This included putting a US registration number sticker covering the British/French registration on the plane for the duration of its flight within the US. It was really quite curious.


Too bad this never actually existed:

sSQlOmm.jpg

 

Besides interchanging with Braniff...both BA to London, and AF to Paris, as jis has mentioned, BA also interchanged with Singapore Airlines on a London-Bahrain-Singapore flight.

One BA Concorde was painted with Singapore livery on one side, and BA on the other.

 

The big difference between the operations, was only the flight attendants from Singapore worked their portion, the BA pilots went all the way. 

With Braniff, the entire crew were Braniff.  The Braniff pilots were trained and qualified on the Concorde--even supersonic, although they never flew their portion supersonic.


  • cpotisch likes this
metroblue?

okay on the blue!

#67 SarahZ

SarahZ

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,451 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Michigan
  • Interests:Writing, reading, baking, trivia, adventures, historic preservation

Posted 19 June 2018 - 08:59 PM

 

Thank you so much for posting this. I like that I feel like I'm traveling. What a cool effect. I keep expecting to feel some gentle turbulence. It's helping with my travel withdrawal. :)

 

Like you, the HVAC sound on trains helps me relax and sleep. I barely notice it until it's gone. Then I can hear EVERYTHING. It drives me bonkers. The white noise covers up so many random sounds. That's one reason I always sleep with a box fan. Without my fan, it's so quiet I can't sleep. Every little noise wakes me up.

 

I use a little fan at work for the same reason. I like the white noise, and I like that it keeps the air moving. I can't stand stale, stuffy air. When I'm on a plane, I point the air nozzle right at my face.  :D


Edited by SarahZ, 19 June 2018 - 09:01 PM.

  • railiner and cpotisch like this
Amtrak Miles: 48,312
 
Amtrak Routes: Blue Water, California Zephyr, Capitol Limited, Carl Sandburg, City of New Orleans, Coast Starlight, Crescent, Empire Builder, Hiawatha, Illinois Zephyr, Lincoln Service, Southwest Chief, Texas Eagle, Wolverine
 
Metropolitan Rail: Chicago Metra, Chicago L, Dallas TRE, Detroit People Mover, New Orleans RTA, San Francisco MUNI, Seattle Monorail, South Shore Line (NICTD), Toronto Subway & RT, Washington DC Metro

#68 crescent2

crescent2

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,307 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:a little south of normal

Posted 21 June 2018 - 07:09 PM

 

 

Thank you so much for posting this. I like that I feel like I'm traveling. What a cool effect. I keep expecting to feel some gentle turbulence. It's helping with my travel withdrawal. :)

 

Like you, the HVAC sound on trains helps me relax and sleep. I barely notice it until it's gone. Then I can hear EVERYTHING. It drives me bonkers. The white noise covers up so many random sounds. That's one reason I always sleep with a box fan. Without my fan, it's so quiet I can't sleep. Every little noise wakes me up.

 

I use a little fan at work for the same reason. I like the white noise, and I like that it keeps the air moving. I can't stand stale, stuffy air. When I'm on a plane, I point the air nozzle right at my face.  :D

 

 

 

One of the many things I like about Alexa (I have a couple of Dots) are the sleep sounds skills (apps).  There are several plane and train ones, along with about anything else you could imagine from guitars to washing machines.  The distant trains are probably my favorite.  Lots of box fans, too, for you.  Of course, they don't blow air in your face, but you can't have everything.



#69 railiner

railiner

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,530 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens, NY
  • Interests:All public transportation....land, sea, and air

Posted 21 June 2018 - 11:48 PM

I have an old-fashioned, pre-electronic, mechanical white noise generator buried away somewhere...you can 'tune' it to sound almost exactly like the the air whooshing out of the Amfleet ceiling slots....

https://www.walmart....2&wl13=&veh=sem


metroblue?

okay on the blue!

#70 cpotisch

cpotisch

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,144 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY
  • Interests:Planes, Trains, Cooking, Politics

Posted 22 June 2018 - 08:40 AM

 

 

 

Thank you so much for posting this. I like that I feel like I'm traveling. What a cool effect. I keep expecting to feel some gentle turbulence. It's helping with my travel withdrawal. :)

 

Like you, the HVAC sound on trains helps me relax and sleep. I barely notice it until it's gone. Then I can hear EVERYTHING. It drives me bonkers. The white noise covers up so many random sounds. That's one reason I always sleep with a box fan. Without my fan, it's so quiet I can't sleep. Every little noise wakes me up.

 

I use a little fan at work for the same reason. I like the white noise, and I like that it keeps the air moving. I can't stand stale, stuffy air. When I'm on a plane, I point the air nozzle right at my face.  :D

 

 

 

One of the many things I like about Alexa (I have a couple of Dots) are the sleep sounds skills (apps).  There are several plane and train ones, along with about anything else you could imagine from guitars to washing machines.  The distant trains are probably my favorite.  Lots of box fans, too, for you.  Of course, they don't blow air in your face, but you can't have everything.

 

We had never wanted an Echo, but last year my dad won a Dot accidentally at a tech conference, so he brought it home and have kept it set up in our kitchen ever since. We use it mainly for radio, music, and the shopping list, but occasionally for its sleep skills. We probably would never have bought one for the $49 list price, but it's a great deal if you snag one for free!


Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome


#71 XHRTSP

XHRTSP

    OBS Chief

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 314 posts

Posted 22 June 2018 - 10:02 AM

What I dislike, is when while climbing, they sometimes reduce throttle for a period, for noise abatement procedures....

No we don't do that, that's not how noise abatement works. If there is a large noticable thrust reduction, followed by a spool up back to climb power, it's due to a momentary level off. That could be for airspace considerations, crossing traffic, or other reasons, but not noise abatement.
  • railiner and cpotisch like this

#72 railiner

railiner

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,530 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens, NY
  • Interests:All public transportation....land, sea, and air

Posted 22 June 2018 - 01:21 PM

 

What I dislike, is when while climbing, they sometimes reduce throttle for a period, for noise abatement procedures....

No we don't do that, that's not how noise abatement works. If there is a large noticable thrust reduction, followed by a spool up back to climb power, it's due to a momentary level off. That could be for airspace considerations, crossing traffic, or other reasons, but not noise abatement.

 

Thanks for clearing that up....


metroblue?

okay on the blue!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users