Jump to content




Help Support AmtrakTrains.com by donating using the link above or becoming a Supporting Member.

Photo

Amtrak Blacklist?


  • Please log in to reply
65 replies to this topic

#21 Lonestar648

Lonestar648

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,631 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 June 2018 - 02:51 AM

If this kid did this type thing at the airport, he is arrested, no questions asked, no matter whose son he is.  The same should apply to Amtrak.  There is no reason for anyone to attack any member of the crew so the LEO should take the person off.  Failing to do so is disrespectful to the entire Amtrak crew.


  • Triley, daybeers and RichieRich like this

#22 bmjhagen9426

bmjhagen9426

    Conductor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 720 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Klamath Falls, Oregon
  • Interests:Computers, riding trains/travel, watching movies/sporting events, listening to music/speeches/talk radio, reading

Posted 10 June 2018 - 02:52 AM

I have noticed that some people used the word LEO. What does LEO mean, anyway?


Trains taken (Amtrak): Coast Starlight (VAN-LAX), San Joaquins (BFD-SAC, BFD-MTZ), Empire Builder (PDX-CHI), Southwest Chief, Hoosier State, California Zephyr, Sunset Limited (LAX-MRC), Capitol Limited, Lake Shore Limited (NYP-CHI), Capitol Corridor (EMY-SAC), Acela Express (WAS-NYP)

Current Amtrak mileage: 47445 miles


#23 seat38a

seat38a

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,728 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County California
  • Interests:Trains, Planes, And Web App Development

Posted 10 June 2018 - 03:07 AM

I have noticed that some people used the word LEO. What does LEO mean, anyway?

Law Enforcement Officer.



#24 CCC1007

CCC1007

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,702 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 June 2018 - 03:22 AM

I have noticed that some people used the word LEO. What does LEO mean, anyway?

Law Enforcement Officer

#25 bmjhagen9426

bmjhagen9426

    Conductor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 720 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Klamath Falls, Oregon
  • Interests:Computers, riding trains/travel, watching movies/sporting events, listening to music/speeches/talk radio, reading

Posted 10 June 2018 - 03:54 AM

Sometimes I might be angry at an LEO, but smiting an LEO would be the last thing I would do, and more so as a 24yo, as I would be subject to tougher penalties for doing so.


Edited by bmjhagen9426, 10 June 2018 - 03:56 AM.

Trains taken (Amtrak): Coast Starlight (VAN-LAX), San Joaquins (BFD-SAC, BFD-MTZ), Empire Builder (PDX-CHI), Southwest Chief, Hoosier State, California Zephyr, Sunset Limited (LAX-MRC), Capitol Limited, Lake Shore Limited (NYP-CHI), Capitol Corridor (EMY-SAC), Acela Express (WAS-NYP)

Current Amtrak mileage: 47445 miles


#26 Thirdrail7

Thirdrail7

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,173 posts

Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:11 AM

I will only dip my toe into this one.

 

 

If this kid did this type thing at the airport, he is arrested, no questions asked, no matter whose son he is.  The same should apply to Amtrak.  There is no reason for anyone to attack any member of the crew so the LEO should take the person off.  Failing to do so is disrespectful to the entire Amtrak crew.

 

True, but as previously reported, it gets a different look when children are involved, the train is underway or there aren't a ton of witnesses, which can lead to "this is what happened/no this is what happened" kind of events.

 

The Kobayashi Maru scenario rages on for all persons involved...daily.


Edited by Thirdrail7, 10 June 2018 - 10:12 AM.

  • TiBike, AFS1970 and daybeers like this

They say laughter is the best medicine. Obviously they never posted on AU.


#27 spinnaker

spinnaker

    OBS Chief

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 299 posts

Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:44 AM

I will only dip my toe into this one.

 

 

If this kid did this type thing at the airport, he is arrested, no questions asked, no matter whose son he is.  The same should apply to Amtrak.  There is no reason for anyone to attack any member of the crew so the LEO should take the person off.  Failing to do so is disrespectful to the entire Amtrak crew.

 

True, but as previously reported, it gets a different look when children are involved, the train is underway or there aren't a ton of witnesses, which can lead to "this is what happened/no this is what happened" kind of events.

 

The Kobayashi Maru scenario rages on for all persons involved...daily.

:wacko: What does an unbeatable test from a fictional television episode have to do with this scenario?



#28 Thirdrail7

Thirdrail7

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,173 posts

Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:53 AM

 

I will only dip my toe into this one.

 

 

If this kid did this type thing at the airport, he is arrested, no questions asked, no matter whose son he is.  The same should apply to Amtrak.  There is no reason for anyone to attack any member of the crew so the LEO should take the person off.  Failing to do so is disrespectful to the entire Amtrak crew.

 

True, but as previously reported, it gets a different look when children are involved, the train is underway or there aren't a ton of witnesses, which can lead to "this is what happened/no this is what happened" kind of events.

 

The Kobayashi Maru scenario rages on for all persons involved...daily.

:wacko: What does an unbeatable test from a fictional television episode have to do with this scenario?

 

 

This situation, like many others that involve the public was going to result in a problem, not matter what road you took.


  • daybeers likes this

They say laughter is the best medicine. Obviously they never posted on AU.


#29 TiBike

TiBike

    OBS Chief

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 490 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Alta California

Posted 10 June 2018 - 12:43 PM

:wacko: What does an unbeatable test from a fictional television episode have to do with this scenario?

 

A no-win situation that tests your ability to cope with certain defeat, no matter what you do. I think Roddenberry stole the idea from Amtrak  :) .


  • daybeers and cpotisch like this

Coast Starlight • California Zephyr • Crescent • Lake Shore Limited • San Joaquin • Capitol Corridor • Pacific Surfliner

Shinkansen • TranzAlpine (NZ) • Northern Explorer (NZ) • Coastal Pacific (NZ) • Great Southern Rail Overland (Oz) • Tze-Chiang Limited (ROC) • Thello Venice-Paris

#30 Lonestar648

Lonestar648

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,631 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 June 2018 - 02:33 PM

The sad take away is that society is empowering minors to do what ever they want to adults without fear of major consequences.


  • AFS1970 likes this

#31 spinnaker

spinnaker

    OBS Chief

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 299 posts

Posted 10 June 2018 - 04:00 PM

The sad take away is that society is empowering minors to do what ever they want to adults without fear of major consequences.

 

 

Actually the sad part is our litigious society forcing Amtrak to make this decision. 


  • AmtrakBlue and daybeers like this

#32 neroden

neroden

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,732 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Ithaca, NY
  • Interests:Please feel free to moderate my posts

Posted 10 June 2018 - 04:03 PM

My question is: did the unaccompanied minor start an argument, or did the conductor start the argument by demanding paperwork from the unaccompanied minor?

 

If the former, he should have been arrested.  If the latter, the fault fundamentally lies with Amtrak HQ for its really stupid unaccompanied minor policies, which are simply *asking* for people to violate them.


Edited by neroden, 10 June 2018 - 04:04 PM.

--Nathanael--

Please feel free to moderate my posts.

#33 Thirdrail7

Thirdrail7

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,173 posts

Posted 10 June 2018 - 04:04 PM

 

The sad take away is that society is empowering minors to do what ever they want to adults without fear of major consequences.

 

 

Actually the sad part is our litigious society forcing Amtrak to make this decision. 

 

 

It also forces the police to make a hell of a decision.


  • jis, Ryan, AmtrakBlue and 2 others like this

They say laughter is the best medicine. Obviously they never posted on AU.


#34 spinnaker

spinnaker

    OBS Chief

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 299 posts

Posted 10 June 2018 - 05:47 PM

My question is: did the unaccompanied minor start an argument, or did the conductor start the argument by demanding paperwork from the unaccompanied minor?

 

If the former, he should have been arrested.  If the latter, the fault fundamentally lies with Amtrak HQ for its really stupid unaccompanied minor policies, which are simply *asking* for people to violate them.

 

You make it sound like your are excusing the passenger's violent behavior.

 

If you don't like the rules then don't bitch when you get caught violating them.   Any physical violence on another person is wrong (barring self defense) no matter the circumstances.   15  yo is certainly old enough to know better. if simply being asked for documentation sets this kid off, I feel sorry for anyone that might cross his path,


  • Triley, crescent2, seat38a and 3 others like this

#35 Triley

Triley

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,261 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Somewhere between VAC and EUG

Posted 10 June 2018 - 09:32 PM

 

 

The sad take away is that society is empowering minors to do what ever they want to adults without fear of major consequences.

 

 

Actually the sad part is our litigious society forcing Amtrak to make this decision. 

 

 

It also forces the police to make a hell of a decision.

 

 

Granted I only have had experience with APD on this one, but isn't it the conductor's final choice whether they stay or go?  Unless you mean the police deciding whether to charge and hold him, or release him on his own.  That, yes, would be a big decision.


My posts are my own opinions and do not represent the views of my employer in any way, shape, or form. ~ Now back to your regularly scheduled program.


#36 Lonestar648

Lonestar648

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,631 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 June 2018 - 09:49 PM

It appears that the Conductor requested the Police so the decision was made that the 15 year old was to get off, but with no support from the local LEO, the Conductor must have felt compelled, possibly with advise from a Supervisor not to put him off.  Seems like this sets up for both the Conductor and Amtrak to be sued.  Courts like children over adults so the suit most likely would be settled out of court.  Just like the schools, if the child says an adult touched them, but there are no witnesses, the School Board has no choice but to discipline and/or terminate the adult where they are innocent or not.  Everyone is afraid to handle children and the children know this  so some use this knowledge to manipulate the system.



#37 railiner

railiner

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,695 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens, NY
  • Interests:All public transportation....land, sea, and air

Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:43 PM

If the youth actually assaulted the conductor, and the conductor insisted on pressing charges, the police would have no choice but to hold the youth, at least until a parent came to get him.

I suspect, the police did not really want to make a 'case' out of it, and pressured the conductor that booked off to let it go, as well as pressuring the relieving conductor to take the youth on to his destination.

 

In some of these cases, it all depends on the responding police, and whether they want to handle the situation properly, or would rather see it just "go away".


Edited by railiner, 10 June 2018 - 11:03 PM.

metroblue?

okay on the blue!

#38 SarahZ

SarahZ

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,451 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Michigan
  • Interests:Writing, reading, baking, trivia, adventures, historic preservation

Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:51 PM

I'm going to bookmark this thread so I can reference it any time a minor asks if they can get away with fooling the conductors instead of going through the "unaccompanied minor" process.


  • AmtrakBlue likes this
Amtrak Miles: 48,312
 
Amtrak Routes: Blue Water, California Zephyr, Capitol Limited, Carl Sandburg, City of New Orleans, Coast Starlight, Crescent, Empire Builder, Hiawatha, Illinois Zephyr, Lincoln Service, Southwest Chief, Texas Eagle, Wolverine
 
Metropolitan Rail: Chicago Metra, Chicago L, Dallas TRE, Detroit People Mover, New Orleans RTA, San Francisco MUNI, Seattle Monorail, South Shore Line (NICTD), Toronto Subway & RT, Washington DC Metro

#39 Lonestar648

Lonestar648

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,631 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:55 PM

Good idea.  I think it wasn't that long ago that a minor wanted to travel by himself, discussing his options in this forum.


  • Triley likes this

#40 SarahZ

SarahZ

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,451 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Michigan
  • Interests:Writing, reading, baking, trivia, adventures, historic preservation

Posted 10 June 2018 - 10:58 PM

Good idea.  I think it wasn't that long ago that a minor wanted to travel by himself, discussing his options in this forum.

 

We've had a few like that. 


Amtrak Miles: 48,312
 
Amtrak Routes: Blue Water, California Zephyr, Capitol Limited, Carl Sandburg, City of New Orleans, Coast Starlight, Crescent, Empire Builder, Hiawatha, Illinois Zephyr, Lincoln Service, Southwest Chief, Texas Eagle, Wolverine
 
Metropolitan Rail: Chicago Metra, Chicago L, Dallas TRE, Detroit People Mover, New Orleans RTA, San Francisco MUNI, Seattle Monorail, South Shore Line (NICTD), Toronto Subway & RT, Washington DC Metro




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users