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Amtrak #6(29) Hit Empty Cattle Trailer in Nebraska


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#21 Ryan

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 10:23 AM

Also, strictly enforcing gate evasion rules with cameras that record moving vehicles going around gates and detect vehicles blocking tracks. One place where I think camera tickets are justified.Put $1000 fine on it and the problem will be vastly reduced.


I agree with the general concept but I'd prefer the fine be based on a percentage of income/gains/wealth in order to ensure it doesn't completely destroy the life of someone who is very poor but also isn't simply ignored by someone who is extremely rich. Other countries handle moving violations in this way and I'd like to use a similar framework here.


This makes far too much sense for anyone to actually implement here.
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#22 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 10:44 AM

 

 

Unfortunately, when it comes to car drivers, truck drivers, motorcyclists, bicyclists, and pedestrians - there is no way to fix being S T U P I D at grade crossings. I disagree that cameras, and draconian fines would have much, if any, positive effect.


Even if you believe that a camera and fine system wouldn't stop people from crossing paths with a moving train the revenue generated from such a system could be used to help defray the cost of physically separating the grade in the future.  Everybody wins.

I don't think it would work in real life, because so often real life just isn't that logical.

 

If you can articulate a definable problem I'll be happy to discuss the merits in good faith.  Otherwise I'm not quite sure what you want me to do with this low effort reasoning.


Edited by Devil's Advocate, 01 June 2018 - 02:44 PM.

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#23 frequentflyer

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 11:14 AM

Start making grade crossing accidents expensive for the insurance companies and commercial drivers and it will slow down some. I wander what charges will be bought against the trucker and the company he drove for. Amtrak should bill his insurance even if they are self insured.

 

That one Genesis is handling the 10 car consist pretty easy on flat land.

 

I worry how a Charger will fare in a similar accident.



#24 Lonestar648

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 11:16 AM

1. People are educated about RR crossings, the realism is that they CHOOSE to ignore the signs, signals, and gates.

2. Cameras may record the car and license plate, but in some states courts have ruled you can not charge the car owner, only the driver, thus you would need definitive proof who was behind the wheel.

3. Mega fines do not stop people because so many people feel nothing with happen to them and if it doers it is not their fault.

4. The media always portrays the train as running into the vehicle as though it is the train's fault.  This has from personal experience caused people to have a negative feeling about trains in general,  I was shocked recently that people actually voted down money for a grade cross replacement, instead wrote in to abolish the RR tracks.

5. I have seen on HS routes where four gates are used to prevent drive arounds. 

6. Congress voted down a penny added to a gallon of gas decades ago to start eliminating grade crossings, starting with the worse or most dangerous, but failed because not that many people were killed by trains.

 

Bottom line: gradually a few crossings will be eliminated, occasionally Law enforcement will ride in cabs working with support on the ground, but more and more people will be rushing more than they do today. Increasing numbers of people will come to grade crossing saying I don't have time for this. Unfortunately, more people will make bad decisions, but today people seem to be increasingly dulled to senseless tragedy.  Most of us on this site will stop at the crossings, get honked at as people drive around us.  Hopefully, our examples effect some people.


Edited by Lonestar648, 01 June 2018 - 11:19 AM.


#25 railiner

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 12:49 PM

I believe that in general, driver education in this country is very poor.   On most "road tests", applicant's will: make a right turn, a left turn, a Y-turn, parallel park, and bada-bing--they're done...all in less than ten minutes.  And testing merging onto and off of a freeway?   Nah...you learn that after you get your license.

In other countries, such as Germany, you take a comprehensive exam that lasts much longer...on and off the autobahn, etc. where you demonstrate your mastery of driving, before they grant you a license.  Respect for rules and regulation's is more part of the culture, than it is here.   And respecting grade crossing safety should be part of it all.   Just MHO....


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#26 zephyr17

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 01:28 PM

Start making grade crossing accidents expensive for the insurance companies and commercial drivers and it will slow down some. I wander what charges will be bought against the trucker and the company he drove for. Amtrak should bill his insurance even if they are self insured.

 

That one Genesis is handling the 10 car consist pretty easy on flat land.

 

I worry how a Charger will fare in a similar accident.

Um, grade crossing accidents are already expensive for insurance companies.  In most cases, the operator/company, assuming the operator were at fault, would be liable for all costs, incurred by Amtrak, including additional wages due to the delay and anything that Amtrak did for delayed passengers.    Insurance would have to cover that, in addition to the damage to the trailer if they had that coverage.  Amtrak's legal department will almost certainly demain payment and proceed legally against them if not paid.

 

The company's insurance rates will reflect their history of losses.  If they are too bad, they'll get dropped.

 

If they are self insured, they don't have insurance.  Who are they billing, then?  That statement made absolutely zero sense.   In any case the action is against the operator/company, with insurance indemnifying them and taking on the defense and payments on on their behalf.


Edited by zephyr17, 01 June 2018 - 01:29 PM.

Pre Amtrak: SP Coast Daylight, AT&SF San Diegan, AT&SF Super Chief, D&RGW Rio Grande Zephyr; Amtrak: Southwest Limited/Chief, San Diegan/Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin, Cascades, California/San Francisco Zephyr, Coast Starlight, Empire Builder, Sunset Limited (LA-ORL), Desert Wind, Pioneer, City of New Orleans, Silver Star, Silver Meteor, Lake Shore Limited (NY Section), Cardinal, Hoosier State (Amtrak),  Hoosier State (Iowa Pacific), Ann Rutledge, Adirondack, Maple Leaf, NE Regional, Capitol Limited, Crescent, Acela Express, Lake Shore Limited (Boston Section)
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#27 frequentflyer

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 01:43 PM

 

Start making grade crossing accidents expensive for the insurance companies and commercial drivers and it will slow down some. I wander what charges will be bought against the trucker and the company he drove for. Amtrak should bill his insurance even if they are self insured.

 

That one Genesis is handling the 10 car consist pretty easy on flat land.

 

I worry how a Charger will fare in a similar accident.

Um, grade crossing accidents are already expensive for insurance companies.  In most cases, the operator/company, assuming the operator were at fault, would be liable for all costs, incurred by Amtrak, including additional wages due to the delay and anything that Amtrak did for delayed passengers.    Insurance would have to cover that, in addition to the damage to the trailer if they had that coverage.  Amtrak's legal department will almost certainly demain payment and proceed legally against them if not paid.

 

The company's insurance rates will reflect their history of losses.  If they are too bad, they'll get dropped.

 

If they are self insured, they don't have insurance.  Who are they billing, then?  That statement made absolutely zero sense.   In any case the action is against the operator/company, with insurance indemnifying them and taking on the defense and payments on on their behalf.

 

Amtrak is self insured.



#28 zephyr17

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 04:01 PM

I was really talking about the insurance status of trucking company/operator who ran the grade crossing, which is who I assumed was self insured in your statement.  Amtrak's self insured status is immaterial here, which is why I read it wrong and assumed it was the trucking company you were talking about. Amtrak will go after the operator/operator's insurance routinely in these cases where another party is liable for a loss, as any business would.  The way Amtrak structures their own insurance/lack of insurance really doesn't matter here.

 

The big difference for Amtrak is the hold harmless agreements they have with the host railroads where each is responsible for their own respective losses regardless of which party has fault.  Not the fact that they self-insure.  Lots of big companies self insure and pursue third party liabilty claims whenever appropriate.  The difference is if you self insure, you go after the third pary, if you have insurance, the insurance pays your losses and then they go after the third party. 

 

That hold harmless doesn't apply to anyone except the host railroad.  When it comes to trucking companies with trucks in  grade crossings. Amtrak can go after them freely and will.  The host RR will too, if it the accident caused damage to their infrastructure.


Edited by zephyr17, 01 June 2018 - 04:12 PM.

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#29 frequentflyer

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 06:13 PM

I was really talking about the insurance status of trucking company/operator who ran the grade crossing, which is who I assumed was self insured in your statement.  Amtrak's self insured status is immaterial here, which is why I read it wrong and assumed it was the trucking company you were talking about. Amtrak will go after the operator/operator's insurance routinely in these cases where another party is liable for a loss, as any business would.  The way Amtrak structures their own insurance/lack of insurance really doesn't matter here.

 

The big difference for Amtrak is the hold harmless agreements they have with the host railroads where each is responsible for their own respective losses regardless of which party has fault.  Not the fact that they self-insure.  Lots of big companies self insure and pursue third party liabilty claims whenever appropriate.  The difference is if you self insure, you go after the third pary, if you have insurance, the insurance pays your losses and then they go after the third party. 

 

That hold harmless doesn't apply to anyone except the host railroad.  When it comes to trucking companies with trucks in  grade crossings. Amtrak can go after them freely and will.  The host RR will too, if it the accident caused damage to their infrastructure.

Good info , thanks.  I have read that Amtrak did not go after crossing gate violators. Good to be wrong.



#30 Lonestar648

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 06:20 PM

I have seen some major dollars paid out by trucking company insurance companies.  Drivers regularly put their company in jeopardy, reason why trucking companies either have a considerable staff to handle this or contract it out.  Railroad, Other trucks, cars, road and building damage, trucking companies, unless they are small always seem to have someone getting compensated.



#31 zephyr17

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 06:37 PM


I was really talking about the insurance status of trucking company/operator who ran the grade crossing, which is who I assumed was self insured in your statement.  Amtrak's self insured status is immaterial here, which is why I read it wrong and assumed it was the trucking company you were talking about. Amtrak will go after the operator/operator's insurance routinely in these cases where another party is liable for a loss, as any business would.  The way Amtrak structures their own insurance/lack of insurance really doesn't matter here.
 
The big difference for Amtrak is the hold harmless agreements they have with the host railroads where each is responsible for their own respective losses regardless of which party has fault.  Not the fact that they self-insure.  Lots of big companies self insure and pursue third party liabilty claims whenever appropriate.  The difference is if you self insure, you go after the third pary, if you have insurance, the insurance pays your losses and then they go after the third party. 
 
That hold harmless doesn't apply to anyone except the host railroad.  When it comes to trucking companies with trucks in  grade crossings. Amtrak can go after them freely and will.  The host RR will too, if it the accident caused damage to their infrastructure.

Good info , thanks.  I have read that Amtrak did not go after crossing gate violators. Good to be wrong.
They might not go after individuals,bad PR optics, but a trucking company? Sure
Pre Amtrak: SP Coast Daylight, AT&SF San Diegan, AT&SF Super Chief, D&RGW Rio Grande Zephyr; Amtrak: Southwest Limited/Chief, San Diegan/Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin, Cascades, California/San Francisco Zephyr, Coast Starlight, Empire Builder, Sunset Limited (LA-ORL), Desert Wind, Pioneer, City of New Orleans, Silver Star, Silver Meteor, Lake Shore Limited (NY Section), Cardinal, Hoosier State (Amtrak),  Hoosier State (Iowa Pacific), Ann Rutledge, Adirondack, Maple Leaf, NE Regional, Capitol Limited, Crescent, Acela Express, Lake Shore Limited (Boston Section)
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#32 PRR 60

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 06:51 PM

It appears that this accident occurred at a private crossing (guessing a ranch road).  I base this assumption on the fact that the crossing does not even have crossbucks - just what appears to be a stop sign.  A public crossing would have some degree of FRA standard protection, which at a minimum would include crossbucks.  

 

Private crossing liability issues are governed by the conditions of the permit issued by BNSF (or predecessor) to the crossing owner.  Typically that means that no matter the circumstances, the crossing owner is liable for all damages resulting from incidents at that crossing.



#33 KmH

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 10:53 AM

It appears that this accident occurred at a private crossing (guessing a ranch road). 

https://www.google.c...!4d-101.7254011


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#34 Thirdrail7

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 11:35 AM

 

Good info , thanks.  I have read that Amtrak did not go after crossing gate violators. Good to be wrong.

 

 

 

For the record, there was a ling period of time when Amtrak didn't really pursue the matter with much vigilance...unless it was a major, MAJOR (read serious injuries or death) incident that made the press.

 

That changed during the Boardman years. His group  took this issue and ran with it because the equipment would get wrecked and sidelined. Loss of equipment meant loss of revenue and increased wear and tear on other equipment. The  CFO  didn't take it lying down! 


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#35 Agent

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 01:10 AM

AMTK 188, the engine damaged by the cattle trailer, is now heading east as the fourth unit on the H-LINGAL. (High-priority train from LINcoln to GALesburg).  I filmed it as it came through Agency, Iowa.

 



#36 cpotisch

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 06:32 AM

AMTK 188, the engine damaged by the cattle trailer, is now heading east as the fourth unit on the H-LINGAL. (High-priority train from LINcoln to GALesburg).  I filmed it as it came through Agency, Iowa.

 

Great video. Are you calling it the H-LINGAL, or is that an actual abbreviation for that train (or way to abbreviate)?   :huh:


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#37 Agent

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:37 PM

The H-LINGAL is its name.  Specifically, in this case it's the H-LINGAL1-11A.  I think 11 is the date the first crew was called for this train.  I'm not sure what the rest is for.

 

Also, this train was filmed about five hours and seventy miles earlier in daylight by YouTube user BNSFFREAK747.  He was also the one to give me the heads-up on this train.

 


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