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Canadian delayed almost 48 hours - potential new schedule coming.


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#41 MikefromCrete

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 01:52 PM

CN is not going to run shorter trains. That would wreck their precious operating ratio, make the Wall St. boys mad and cut down the executives'   bonuses. 



#42 Lonestar648

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 05:55 PM

CN isn't going to run  shorter trains nor will they run fewer since their business is increasing.  VIA is stuck losing 24 - 48 hours on each run with no options available to them.  Changing the schedule to add 24 hours benefits no one since soon CN dispatchers will start delaying VIA again.  So does VIA keep redoing the schedule adding another 24 hours?  CN would love for VIA to eliminate the Canadian.  Not sure the Canadian citizens would be happy to have their hallmark train, featured on the back of one of their bills, canceled because freight dispatchers can not dispatch the freight trains  correctly.



#43 Seaboard92

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 07:11 PM

I'm not blaming dispatchers because they have an incredibly hard job. And if anyone wants to see how they would preform I recommend the free computer game Train Dispatcher II to see if they can do any better. I myself am decent at it.

But they are juggling an awful lot of things at one time between trains currently on the territory, broken down trains, trains profiled to run on a territory, effectively managing a single track railroad and keeping it fluid, crew time allowed, and my personal favorite siding length.

To give an example from the game one scenario is the EX Seaboard Airline Main from Richmond Main Street to Raleigh during World War II. You lose one point for every minute of lost running time, and five points for every minute you delay a passenger train. Keep in mind the Seaboard was fielding roughly twelve passenger trains north out of Raleigh, roughly fifteen pairs of freights from locals, to an unknown variety of war extras.

The Seaboard at the time was a CTC bidirectional single track main line, with frequent sidings of varying lengths. The first few times I played this round I had the issue of trying to pass a 5,000 foot freight train with a 1,000 foot passenger train in a 1,500 foot siding. Guess who went in the hole?

The game also has other fun scenarios like Grand Central Rush hour, all metro north lines, and some rather large terminals. I highly recommend it if your computer is compatible
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#44 Anderson

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 03:59 AM

I can't really blame the dispatchers in most cases, but I think we can reasonably blame the railroads for allowing situations like this to both occur and persist for an extended period.  Obviously, meltdowns happen on occasion, and I can't blame a railroad for not wanting to turn away presumably high-dollar traffic.  I wish that VIA, Amtrak, etc. would get payments to at least cover the resulting passenger inconvenience, if not to make up for some share of lost revenue (fraught with difficulties as such would be), but I can at least understand that lines can get jammed up because Reasons.

What I can blame them for is not turning around and investing either in their physical plant (new double-tracking or additional/longer sidings to accommodate the longer trains) or in their fleet (breaking some two-mile trains into two one-mile trains, albeit at the cost of some of their operating margin).  Some blame can also go to the amount of track that has been ripped out over the years (which is not to blame them for all of it...dispatching improvements (such as from computers) and a natural decline in some markets likely justify some reductions on this front, and I think we can also blame the railroads for not trying to negotiate better policies with respect to taxation of tracks.


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#45 Seaboard92

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 07:42 AM

I can't really blame the dispatchers in most cases, but I think we can reasonably blame the railroads for allowing situations like this to both occur and persist for an extended period.  Obviously, meltdowns happen on occasion, and I can't blame a railroad for not wanting to turn away presumably high-dollar traffic.  I wish that VIA, Amtrak, etc. would get payments to at least cover the resulting passenger inconvenience, if not to make up for some share of lost revenue (fraught with difficulties as such would be), but I can at least understand that lines can get jammed up because Reasons.

What I can blame them for is not turning around and investing either in their physical plant (new double-tracking or additional/longer sidings to accommodate the longer trains) or in their fleet (breaking some two-mile trains into two one-mile trains, albeit at the cost of some of their operating margin).  Some blame can also go to the amount of track that has been ripped out over the years (which is not to blame them for all of it...dispatching improvements (such as from computers) and a natural decline in some markets likely justify some reductions on this front, and I think we can also blame the railroads for not trying to negotiate better policies with respect to taxation of tracks.


I agree with you on everything you've said to a point. The issue as I've stated earlier is you have Wall Street basically calling the shots at the railroad. Which basically means the men on the ground are being forced to do a lot more with a lot less. That's the largest issue here. And unfortunately it will continue to be this way while hedge funds, and large Wall Street investors are calling the shots.

I believe if I'm not mistaken that they are making massive capacity upgrades this summer all over the linen which like the BNSF Hi Line will be difficult with the sheer volume of traffic. The basic moral of the story is Wall Street shouldn't be running a railroad as all they care about is operating ratio. It's a public service and should be operated as such.
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#46 railiner

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:15 AM

If it is a public service, perhaps the government should stop the real estate tax, and only collect from them income or sales taxes?   And in doing so, require them to invest all of the tax savings back into the track infrastructure.

 

Would that be a fair solution for both the carrier's and the government?


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metroblue?

okay on the blue!

#47 FreeskierInVT

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:11 PM

Came across this tonight... apparently one passenger was angry enough over a 19 hour delay, they created a website to vent their frustration. 

 

http://thecanadiantrain.com/

 

When I took the train last summer, we were 8-12 hours late. It does reach some fast speeds through the prairies, but I didn't feel unsafe at any point of my 300+ hours on the train last July


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#48 riderails

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 08:46 AM

"Don't Ride" seems to be marked by hyperbole, e.g., " I swear the diner must have swayed THREE FEET from side to side and shook violently.  Passengers were SCREAMING--and I'm not talking about kids.  Adults were SCREAMING!  Profanity was being shouted."   One might suspect there is/was more going on here than meets the eye.  My experience agrees with that described by OBS Chief.



#49 cpotisch

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 10:32 AM

Came across this tonight... apparently one passenger was angry enough over a 19 hour delay, they created a website to vent their frustration. 

 

http://thecanadiantrain.com/

 

When I took the train last summer, we were 8-12 hours late. It does reach some fast speeds through the prairies, but I didn't feel unsafe at any point of my 300+ hours on the train last July

I hate those sites. That person clearly doesn't understand physics and the capabilities of the tracks and train cars. VIA makes it very clear that the Canadian has pretty catastrophic timekeeping, and that passengers should schedule their trip accordingly.

 

"I will admit that I have no proof of this, only my gut feeling as someone who has ridden many trains."

 

Someone's "gut feeling" is not an objective source. I highly doubt that adults were screaming and the train was literally flying off the tracks. Uncomfortable does not mean unsafe. 


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#50 snvboy

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 01:06 PM

Considering the persons budget, and his extreme under-appreciation of the beauty of the wide open plains, I'm curious why he didn't take an excursion with the Rocky Mountaineer instead? 



#51 Palmetto

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 03:22 PM

CN is not going to run shorter trains. That would wreck their precious operating ratio, make the Wall St. boys mad and cut down the executives'   bonuses. 

Are you trying to tell us that it's all about the money?  I'm shocked--shocked, I tell you! :)



#52 Dakota 400

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 03:39 PM

This gentleman must never have ridden on the Southwest Chief or the California Zephyr in the Plain States of the United States when the trains were trying to make up time.

 

What would he have thought about my experience of a C&O Cincinnati to Washington trip?  Having dinner shortly after departing Cincinnati, when the Steward placed my cup of soup (on a saucer, thankfully) on the table. a large portion of the soup left the bowl and ended up in the saucer because of the rough tracks and, I suppose, our speed.

 

Did I feel unsafe in either of these scenarios?  No.  Trains move!

 

It's a good thing that his wife and he did not take the train in the Winter.  Think of his comments about scenery:  snow, snow, snow, followed by more snow.



#53 keelhauled

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 04:29 PM

Came across this tonight... apparently one passenger was angry enough over a 19 hour delay, they created a website to vent their frustration. 
 
http://thecanadiantrain.com/
 
When I took the train last summer, we were 8-12 hours late. It does reach some fast speeds through the prairies, but I didn't feel unsafe at any point of my 300+ hours on the train last July


Looks like the author of this thread (Trainorders subscription required) is taking his disappointment to extremes I have never before seen...


We are stuck with technology when what we really want is just stuff that works.


#54 cpotisch

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 10:41 AM

Looks like the author of this thread (Trainorders subscription required) is taking his disappointment to extremes I have never before seen...

Sure seems like it...

 

 

I plan on posting more than one thread, about our recent ride on VIA Train No. 2

Really? 5 bucks says this guy ends up on AU soon.

 

I don't consider myself a "Rail Fan." I don't chase trains, nor do I profess to know everything about them, like so many others on this site.

You don't know about trains? Then maybe you shouldn't claim to know what their capabilities are, what is safe operation of them, and what the crew are doing.

 

Well, the train, scheduled to leave at 8:30pm, did not depart until almost 12:30am--4 hours late--due to the No. 1 arriving very late.

Four hours late? You're already getting riled up about that, despite you literally admitting that that was because the inbound train arrived late.

 

What I have never seen discussed here before, is WHAT HAPPENS when these trains get late. What do YOU think happens? Well, what actually happens, is that the engineers try to make up time and they do this by really opening the throttle when they have a clear right of way. Unfortunately, they do this pretty much whenever they can, seemingly with absolutely zero regards for the comfort--or safety--of the passengers and crew.

How do you know that the engineers are recklessly flooring it whenever they get the chance? Were you in there talking to them?

 

Mind you, I have ridden the TGF in France

 

The TGF? Huh?

 

We felt like we were riding in a cattle car and that making up time was more important to the crew than the safety, health and comfort of the passengers onboard. 

Now you're bringing health into this? And again, by your own admission, you left Vancouver late because the inbound train arrived late. Would you have wished that that train hadn't tried to make up time, even if it meant that you would end up departing even later?


Edited by cpotisch, 16 June 2018 - 10:45 AM.

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#55 Trogdor

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 11:06 AM

Interesting as that thread may be (or not), I really don't see the point in bringing that discussion over here, quoting parts of it, then responding to this "you" person who may or may not wind up on this forum.  After all, the post on TO is a month and a half old, and they haven't made it over here yet.


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#56 cpotisch

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 11:12 AM

Interesting as that thread may be (or not), I really don't see the point in bringing that discussion over here, quoting parts of it, then responding to this "you" person who may or may not wind up on this forum.  After all, the post on TO is a month and a half old, and they haven't made it over here yet.

Point taken. I just get kind of annoyed when people start assuming that the crew is being reckless and unsafe, when they clearly don't care or know much about trains. But yeah, probably doesn't make much sense to go on a rant about it here...


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#57 Seaboard92

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 08:40 AM

If you think you get annoyed by people doing that CP wait till you get people like me involved. Most railfans, advocates, foamers, etc when I'm working will tell me how to do my job. Yet they've never actually done my job in the first place. And someone like Streamliner from that board falls into that category.

If you don't understand why we do something the way we do just ask. Some of us will say just cause, and others that are more like me will explain to you why we do things a certain way. If you have a suggestion on how to do it better. Some of us will listen and see if it makes sense.

I personally am not openly hostile to new ways of doing things as long as they can be done safely, and more efficiently. But I am openly hostile when people tell me and the crafts how to do our jobs when they've never once done our jobs. The thing is on all of my runs I have I like to take someone under my wing and show them the ropes.

But that's because I was taught by a much older generation how to do things. My lineage goes back to (NC&STL, Southern, Savannah and Atlanta, and Chesapeake and Ohio) of course all two generations ago. My mentor was taught by men from each of those lines. And he In turn taught me their lessons.
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Amtrak Routes I've riden: Silver Star(NYP-ORL), Silver Meteor(KIS-NYP),Carolinian(CLT-NWK), Palmetto (FLO-NYP), Acela(WAS-NYP), NE Regional(WBG-RVR), Pacific Surfliner(SAN-OSD), Piedmont(CLT-SAL), Crescent(NYP-CLT), Cardinal (WAS-CHI), Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS), Cascade (PDX-SEA)
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