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Canadian delayed almost 48 hours - potential new schedule coming.


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#21 jis

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 12:50 PM

Isn't the Canadian an essential service train that happens to carry tourists too? ;)


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#22 zephyr17

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 01:18 PM

Until the CN customers start being unhappy, finding alternate shippers, CN has no incentive to improve its infrastructure. Of course the Canadian government could get involved, but that could go badly too, if they say it is easier to eliminate the train since it is mostly a tourist train.

I read that that is actually happening, shippers getting unhappy with delays, and CN has announced a program to increase siding lengths and some double tracking.  But that will take awhile.

 

The Canadian does provide essential service in areas that are not road served, particularly in northern Ontario.  It is not classed as an "essential services" train though, like the the Sudbury-White River run, to my knowledge.  However, it is an icon, and there is support for it, so I think getting rid of it entirely would at stir some controversy.  Not many countries put a picture of a specific passenger train on their money (the $10 note has the Canadian on the reverse side).


Edited by zephyr17, 31 May 2018 - 01:18 PM.

Pre Amtrak: SP Coast Daylight, AT&SF San Diegan, AT&SF Super Chief, D&RGW Rio Grande Zephyr; Amtrak: Southwest Limited/Chief, San Diegan/Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin, Cascades, California/San Francisco Zephyr, Coast Starlight, Empire Builder, Sunset Limited (LA-ORL), Desert Wind, Pioneer, City of New Orleans, Silver Star, Silver Meteor, Lake Shore Limited (NY Section), Cardinal, Hoosier State (Amtrak),  Hoosier State (Iowa Pacific), Ann Rutledge, Adirondack, Maple Leaf, NE Regional, Capitol Limited, Crescent, Acela Express, Lake Shore Limited (Boston Section)
Via Rail Canada: Via Canadian (CP route), Via Super Continental, Via Atlantic Limited, Via Hudson Bay, Via Skeena, Via Canadian (CN route), Via "Corridor" (Toronto-Montreal); 
Other: BC Rail Cariboo Dayliner, Alaska Railroad, Eurostar, Thalys, DB, Netherlands Rail, Austrian Railways, BR, Korail (conventional), Korail KTX

#23 Seaboard92

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 01:49 PM

The Ocean benefits from having a route where it's the only train for a very long distance. Of course that could cause a problem if any part of that line were to wash out or have an issue.
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#24 Dakota 400

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 04:37 PM

I keep vacillating about booking The Canadian.  I almost was ready to do so, then recent stories of more and longer delays.  Don't mind being delayed in route, but it is "the what does one do at the destination and for on-going travel plans" for such prolonged delays?

 

Are customers being lost by VIA Rail?  If so, might that not encourage them to prod the Canadian Parliament to "do something" for the benefit of Canadian tourism?



#25 Lonestar648

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 09:26 PM

I don't know if the delays had anything to do with it, but I noticed that a number of sold out departure dates this summer now have full availability.  



#26 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 11:07 PM

I'm glad I rode The Canadian back when it was only a few hours late and had not yet become the unmitigated dumpster fire it is today. I'm not sure what VIA hopes to gain by "negotiating" from a position of extreme weakness.  CN can do whatever they want no matter how it affects VIA and regardless of what anyone else happens to think about it.  At this point VIA's only lasting hope is to enlist the help of their government.


Edited by Devil's Advocate, 01 June 2018 - 12:18 AM.

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#27 Lonestar648

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 11:15 PM

I am scared to see what the new schedule will be for this winter when we are planning to make the trip, though maybe since the schedule will be new, CN will try to keep the train on time for the short term.



#28 railiner

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 11:52 PM

Whatever VIA offers this fall, during the off-peak season, I am determined to make the trip...while I still have the chance.   The nice thing about being retired is no worries about getting there or back on time...


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#29 Anderson

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 11:52 PM

If CN doesn't even make a pretense of keeping the new schedule for a while, then VIA might have grounds to hit them for negotiating in bad faith.  I don't pretend to know how such a case would go, but my guess is that they'll make a passing attempt to keep the new schedule for at least a season.


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#30 railiner

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 12:07 PM

I wonder, what would the result be, if VIA simply asked CN what the schedule should be (and not accepting "no train at all" as an answer); a schedule that CN felt they could reliably maintain?

And once agreement over it was reached, have some kind of penalty/reward incentive for fulfilling it?

 

I suppose CN would not trap themselves into such an agreement, no matter how reasonable it might look... :rolleyes:


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#31 zephyr17

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 12:30 PM

Interesting article on the subject in Railway Age:
https://www.railwaya...-vias-canadian/

Not any more real info though.

Edited by zephyr17, 01 June 2018 - 12:31 PM.

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Pre Amtrak: SP Coast Daylight, AT&SF San Diegan, AT&SF Super Chief, D&RGW Rio Grande Zephyr; Amtrak: Southwest Limited/Chief, San Diegan/Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin, Cascades, California/San Francisco Zephyr, Coast Starlight, Empire Builder, Sunset Limited (LA-ORL), Desert Wind, Pioneer, City of New Orleans, Silver Star, Silver Meteor, Lake Shore Limited (NY Section), Cardinal, Hoosier State (Amtrak),  Hoosier State (Iowa Pacific), Ann Rutledge, Adirondack, Maple Leaf, NE Regional, Capitol Limited, Crescent, Acela Express, Lake Shore Limited (Boston Section)
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#32 Lonestar648

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 06:33 PM

So if they lengthen the schedule will they still be able to run three departures each week each way?



#33 zephyr17

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 06:40 PM

Just have to see. The current (aspirational) same day turn in Toronto may be issue
Pre Amtrak: SP Coast Daylight, AT&SF San Diegan, AT&SF Super Chief, D&RGW Rio Grande Zephyr; Amtrak: Southwest Limited/Chief, San Diegan/Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin, Cascades, California/San Francisco Zephyr, Coast Starlight, Empire Builder, Sunset Limited (LA-ORL), Desert Wind, Pioneer, City of New Orleans, Silver Star, Silver Meteor, Lake Shore Limited (NY Section), Cardinal, Hoosier State (Amtrak),  Hoosier State (Iowa Pacific), Ann Rutledge, Adirondack, Maple Leaf, NE Regional, Capitol Limited, Crescent, Acela Express, Lake Shore Limited (Boston Section)
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#34 Lonestar648

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 02:35 PM

It didn't take long after the two cancellations to get the system back to normal, for CN to delay VIA Canadian so much  that #1 is departing Toronto almost 24 hours late again.  I would think this is a major embarrassment for the Canadian government who depends on foreign travelers, especially in the summer.



#35 railiner

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 10:29 PM

Maybe that is CN's strategy....to get some government handouts for more double tracking or longer sidings? :unsure:


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#36 caravanman

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 09:38 AM

The solution is not schedule lengthening, but consist shortening or siding lengthening. The Canadian freight trains are simply too long, longer than the US counterparts, that they just won't fit the sidings.

 

If the freight train can pull clear of the entry to a siding, the VIA train can enter the (shortish) siding. The Freight train reverses to clear the front of the siding, and the VIA train can pull out ahead of the freight. Not ever going to happen in the real world, but I want commission if it does!  :D



#37 cpotisch

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 10:56 AM

 

The solution is not schedule lengthening, but consist shortening or siding lengthening. The Canadian freight trains are simply too long, longer than the US counterparts, that they just won't fit the sidings.

 

If the freight train can pull clear of the entry to a siding, the VIA train can enter the (shortish) siding. The Freight train reverses to clear the front of the siding, and the VIA train can pull out ahead of the freight. Not ever going to happen in the real world, but I want commission if it does!  :D

 

Doesn't work if the VIA train can't fit into the siding, though.


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#38 jis

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 11:15 AM

Looks like VIA basically needs to increase the turn in Toronto to overnight and take the kl\lumps using 5 consists to run three times a week service., or something like that. Individual trains will perhaps not be as long as they have been when fewer consists could suffice.


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#39 railiner

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 12:09 PM

And CN should shorten their consists to a more manageable length, as well.   I remember what a great job the old Rio Grande did on getting trains over its road, by running them, 

"fast, short, and frequent".... :)


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#40 Seaboard92

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 12:51 PM

Railroading has changed since the days of the Rio Grande. It's all ran for the Wall Street Hedge Fund investors now and they want to do the maximum amount without paying the most amount of money.

For those on Wall Street who have never worked on a railroad in their life they ask "why can't we merge these two trains Into one and pay just one crew." What they fail to realize is that different sidings are different lengths and most of the super trains can't fit.

They also fail to realize that draw bars can only take so much weight before they start to give, of course management blames the crew. But it's next to impossible to run a train that's stretched out over two or more hills. And when the freight pulls a knuckle or a draw bar it stops up the entire line.

So the main issue is we are running for Wall Street we aren't running a railroad in the traditional sense anymore.
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