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New Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle Timetables


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#21 Lonestar648

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 09:55 AM

The termination end point in NW Houston is designed for parking by Houston residents, massive bus connections will be needed for points around the city.  In Dallas, people just need to walk past Reunion Arena to Union station to connect with everything (Heavy Rail, light rail, buses).



#22 chrsjrcj

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 10:52 PM

My fantasy land proposal for a new daily train:

 

Eastbound departure from LA at around 10 am (just late enough to connect with the first SB Surfliner from Santa Barbara). Operates 12 hours earlier (or later) than the current Sunset Limited schedule to El Paso (apprx 4 am departure). At El Paso, the train heads to Fort Worth via Odessa/Midland and Abilene. Departs Fort Worth around 5 pm and replaces the Heartland Flyer to OKC. Continues north to Wichita and meets up with the Southwest Chief route at Newton and follows the SWC route to Chicago running about an hour off the current Chief (would probably make economic sense to combine the trains, but if we're already in fantasy land). The westbound train would be the reverse of that. Apprx 4 pm departure from Chicago, 8 am departure from OKC, midnight departure from El Paso, and a mid afternoon arrival in LA. 

 

I don't have any family in any of these areas, so the train makes no sense for me, but simply looking at a map you add daytime service between LA and Tuscon, somewhat decent hours between El Paso and Wichita (pre-dawn and midnight for the endpoints, but at least you get Odessa, Abilene, FTW, and OKC during the day...call it the Texas Palmetto), and a decent overnight service between Texas and Kansas City (if that's even a market). 


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#23 chrsjrcj

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 11:08 PM

Here's a proposed schedule. El Paso to Fort Worth times are based off best guess of an average speed ~60 mph and some recovery time around the big cities. FTW to Newton based off the 2009 study and the 1979 timetable. 

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#24 Pere Flyer

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 01:16 PM

My fantasy land proposal for a new daily train:
 
Eastbound departure from LA at around 10 am (just late enough to connect with the first SB Surfliner from Santa Barbara). Operates 12 hours earlier (or later) than the current Sunset Limited schedule to El Paso (apprx 4 am departure). At El Paso, the train heads to Fort Worth via Odessa/Midland and Abilene. Departs Fort Worth around 5 pm and replaces the Heartland Flyer to OKC. Continues north to Wichita and meets up with the Southwest Chief route at Newton and follows the SWC route to Chicago running about an hour off the current Chief (would probably make economic sense to combine the trains, but if we're already in fantasy land). The westbound train would be the reverse of that. Apprx 4 pm departure from Chicago, 8 am departure from OKC, midnight departure from El Paso, and a mid afternoon arrival in LA. 
 
I don't have any family in any of these areas, so the train makes no sense for me, but simply looking at a map you add daytime service between LA and Tuscon, somewhat decent hours between El Paso and Wichita (pre-dawn and midnight for the endpoints, but at least you get Odessa, Abilene, FTW, and OKC during the day...call it the Texas Palmetto), and a decent overnight service between Texas and Kansas City (if that's even a market). 


I’m all for improving service to OKC, and your fantasy schedule would be worth the daytime service gained. Although I’d say your proposed schedule augments the HF rather than replaces it—I’d argue corridor service between OKC and FTW à la Midwest services is necessary as a stand-alone route.

Pere Marquette: 370 (CHI, HOM, GRR); 371 (GRR, HOM, CHI) | Heartland Flyer: 821 (OKC, NOR, FTW); 822 (FTW, NOR, OKC) | Texas Eagle: 21 (CHI, FTW, SAS); 22 (SAS, FTW, AUS, CHI) Cardinal: 50 (CHI, IND, CIN)

 

SS Line | TRE | DART | MTA | NJT | DC Metro | MBTA | CTA | RTD | MARTA | QLine | Paris Métropolitain | Barcelona Metro | GLI | Jefferson Lines | Ambustitution


#25 frequentflyer

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 12:47 PM

With current demand for the 2130/2230 sleeper, and the 2115/2215 Coach they could easily add an additional sleeper and coach to the 421/422.  Might be interesting to see the passenger numbers through San Antonio from the TE route with the additional cars.

 Back in the 80s when the TE was the Eagle, and operated three days a week, it used to have a sleeper and two coaches connect to the SL.



#26 frequentflyer

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 12:53 PM

Maybe the TE/SL connection needs to be broken.  With two less cars the SL will be able to go one locomotive unit to improve its bottom line going through the mountains in Texas. Instead extend the HL past OKC to connect with the SWC in Newton. That train needs more pax numbers to help the bottom line plus its daily.



#27 frequentflyer

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 12:58 PM

I've made new Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle Timetables.

Major changes include:

- Adds daytime service to San Antonio, TX; Little Rock, AR; Yuma, AZ; Palm Springs CA!

- Daytime service to scenic Arkansas and Missouri

- Approximate twelve hour shift in the schedules, with a bunch of tweaking (i.e. 1-2 hour layovers)

- Connections to other trains at Chicago and Los Angeles are retained

- Overnight between Fort Worth & Austin with long layover in Fort Worth... boarding times should be around 12am westbound, 6am eastbound

Possible problems:

- Barely less than 8 hours turnaround at New Orleans.. a couple other trains do this as well, however (Empire Builder, Cardinal/Hoosier State)

- Long layovers might cause problems, but not sure what exactly, if it does... it will increase travel times by a couple hours

- Metropolitan Lounge might close before #21 boards in Chicago just before 11pm.. might need to keep it open a couple more hours

- El Paso, TX; Houston, TX; Fort Worth, TX; St. Louis, MO; Lake Charles, LA boarding times are quite early/late in the day

 

Overall, I tried to solve the San Antonio problem, while retaining connections at endpoints, and not putting too many other cities in the dark.

 I like it.



#28 cpotisch

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 08:35 AM

Maybe the TE/SL connection needs to be broken.  With two less cars the SL will be able to go one locomotive unit to improve its bottom line going through the mountains in Texas. Instead extend the HL past OKC to connect with the SWC in Newton. That train needs more pax numbers to help the bottom line plus its daily.

There are a surprising number of through passengers on the Sunset/Eagle. There's a reason that the proposed plan for daily CHI-LAX service (via SAS) has the Sunset Limited become a connecting stub train, with the main train being the Eagle. I don't know the economics of one locomotive vs two locomotives, but I feel like cutting out that market, especially with the (current) overnight in SAS, wouldn't work out.


Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome


#29 Lonestar648

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 02:49 PM

I thought about doing a trip to LA this summer doing the sleeper through SAS and back.  I found that 421/422 were almost sold out or sold out in the sleepers and even the coach seating was limited.  What this says is that connecting through SAS 421/422 must have 30-40 in the sleeper, and 60 - 70 in coach per train this summer.  That is a lot of through passengers to eliminate the market.  


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#30 frequentflyer

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 05:06 PM

I thought about doing a trip to LA this summer doing the sleeper through SAS and back.  I found that 421/422 were almost sold out or sold out in the sleepers and even the coach seating was limited.  What this says is that connecting through SAS 421/422 must have 30-40 in the sleeper, and 60 - 70 in coach per train this summer.  That is a lot of through passengers to eliminate the market.  

Keep it mind, its three days a week.



#31 Lonestar648

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 06:58 PM

With that volume three days a week, going 7 days would increase the number even more.  Maybe you wouldn't sell out quite as much, but the numbers would certainly increase.  If the UP would a allow a daily TE to/.from LA, the current numbers seem to show the number of passengers would definitely increase.  Make the TE daily with the SL the connector three times a week.


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#32 frequentflyer

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 08:37 PM

With that volume three days a week, going 7 days would increase the number even more.  Maybe you wouldn't sell out quite as much, but the numbers would certainly increase.  If the UP would a allow a daily TE to/.from LA, the current numbers seem to show the number of passengers would definitely increase.  Make the TE daily with the SL the connector three times a week.

 

The preferable route would be to make the SL section daily but UP has made that impossible with unreasonable demands. Next best option is a daily connection with the SWC.


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#33 Lonestar648

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 12:01 AM

Making the TE daily to LA years ago, UP wanted an outrageous amount of money.  UP has killed other rail expansions Amtrak and Commuter.



#34 Anderson

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 04:25 AM

IIRC the Daily Sunset was shot in the foot by someone who was too clever by half at Amtrak.  UP has generally been willing to work with Amtrak (as has BNSF, for that matter; there are some exceptions, but IIRC almost every Class I has at least one or two locations that are "at issue"); witness the Capitol Corridor in particular.


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Amtrak mileage to date: Somewhere between 120,000 and 150,000 miles...I /really/ need to run all of my trips through a calculator sometime.

...and no, I am not /that/ Anderson...;-)


#35 DevalDragon

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:03 AM

That's pretty useless for anybody that lives in Illinois or Central Texas!



#36 ParanoidAndroid

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 09:42 PM

That's pretty useless for anybody that lives in Illinois or Central Texas!

.
It'll be useless for someone. Right now, that's a lot of Arkansas and southern MO, San Antonio, and eastern CA/western AZ.

I have ridden Cascades #516 (SEA-STW), Coast Starlight #14 (LAX-SLO), Southwest Chief #4 (LAX-CHI), Cardinal #50 (CHI-NYP), Northeast Regional #85 (NYP-WAS), Capitol Limited #30 (HFY-WAS), Coast Starlight #14 (LAX-PDX), Coast Starlight #11 (SLO-LAX), and many Pacific Surfliners with Amtrak. I have observed, including the previous, California Zephyr #5 at SAC (lucky), what I guess to be Crescent #19 (at WAS) and Silver Meteor #97 (at WAS), Empire Builder #28 at PDX, and Sunset Limited #2/Texas Eagle #422 at LAX. I have also ridden the Hokutosei in Japan, Ueno - Sapporo (now discontinued).


#37 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 10:20 PM

IIRC the Daily Sunset was shot in the foot by someone who was too clever by half at Amtrak.


Even all these years later that unsubstantiated rumor still has zero evidence to back it up.

.


#38 cpotisch

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 10:12 AM

Can someone remind me: Did the Sunset East follow the Silvers' route south of Jacksonville (serving Miami, Hollywood, etc), or did it just cut straight across to Jacksonville and that was it? Thanks.


Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome


#39 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 10:25 AM

Can someone remind me: Did the Sunset East follow the Silvers' route south of Jacksonville (serving Miami, Hollywood, etc), or did it just cut straight across to Jacksonville and that was it? Thanks.

 

Originally it served Miami but later on it was truncated to Orlando.
 

First (1993): http://timetables.or...0502n&item=0030

 

Last (2005): http://timetables.or...50425&item=0099


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Trains Traveled: Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA), Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI), Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS), Lake Shore Limited (NYP-CHI), , Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL), Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX), California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY), City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL), Texas Eagle (CHI-DAL)
Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/


#40 cpotisch

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 10:54 AM

 

Can someone remind me: Did the Sunset East follow the Silvers' route south of Jacksonville (serving Miami, Hollywood, etc), or did it just cut straight across to Jacksonville and that was it? Thanks.

 

Originally it served Miami but later on it was truncated to Orlando.
 

First (1993): http://timetables.or...0502n&item=0030

 

Last (2005): http://timetables.or...50425&item=0099

 

Thanks a lot. So initially the train went all the way to Miami (via Orlando), following the exact same route ORL-MIA as the Silvers. Later on they changed it so that it just terminated in ORL.


Edited by cpotisch, 18 August 2018 - 11:01 AM.

Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service, Downeaster w/ Great Dome
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome





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