Jump to content




Help Support AmtrakTrains.com by donating using the link above or becoming a Supporting Member.

Photo

New 737 MAX 8 Transatlantic Opportunities


  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

#21 Devil's Advocate

Devil's Advocate

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,875 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 May 2018 - 11:21 PM

The Captain deployed those flaps for a nice flight right through the [Grand Canyon], turned around and did it again the other way, and then took us home...I'll never forget it...

 

I used to live along one of the flight paths to the Grand Canyon and the routine low flying air traffic was a common and inescapable nuisance.  Each and every day, all day long.  As a little boy I grew up in a forest that was almost as noisy as an airport.  Which is kind of absurd and appalling when you think about it, although I doubt anybody on any of those aircraft ever did.


Edited by Devil's Advocate, 11 May 2018 - 02:13 AM.

.


#22 railiner

railiner

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,271 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens, NY
  • Interests:All public transportation....land, sea, and air

Posted 11 May 2018 - 05:42 AM

 

The Captain deployed those flaps for a nice flight right through the [Grand Canyon], turned around and did it again the other way, and then took us home...I'll never forget it...

 

I used to live along one of the flight paths to the Grand Canyon and the routine low flying air traffic was a common and inescapable nuisance.  Each and every day, all day long.  As a little boy I grew up in a forest that was almost as noisy as an airport.  Which is kind of absurd and appalling when you think about it, although I doubt anybody on any of those aircraft ever did.

 

I imagine, if you didn't suffer from that effect, you might have enjoyed it too... ;)

But I am sorry you were bothered by those flights...the early 7-2's were very noisy, as were all early jet airliner's.

I live under the "Expressway Visual Approach" to LGA's Runway 31, and am used to aircraft noise...especially when they take off from 13.   In the early turbojet era, they used to rattle my windows, and set off car alarm's.   Worse in the summer, until we finally got air-conditioning.   The new high-bypass fanjets are much quieter. :)


metroblue?

okay on the blue!

#23 cpotisch

cpotisch

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,243 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY
  • Interests:Planes, Trains, Cooking, Politics

Posted 11 May 2018 - 10:55 AM

 

Norwegian's transatlantic flights on the MAX are dirt cheap - one way fares start at $80 (for a short time they were as low as $65). Unfortunately...you have to pay extra to pick seats and get dinner, but at those prices, I'd say it's worth it.


Even a free ticket wouldn't be worth it. Norwegian can take their 29-inch knee crushing seat pitch and shove it up their turbofan.

Several months ago, my 6'2" Physics teacher took a Norwegian 737 MAX to Ireland and said there was plenty of space. It obviously wasn't as open and airy as a wide body, but was perfectly comfortable for a 7 hour flight.


Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome, Downeaster


#24 Devil's Advocate

Devil's Advocate

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,875 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 May 2018 - 12:13 PM

I imagine, if you didn't suffer from that effect, you might have enjoyed it too... ;) But I am sorry you were bothered by those flights...the early 7-2's were very noisy, as were all early jet airliner's. I live under the "Expressway Visual Approach" to LGA's Runway 31, and am used to aircraft noise...especially when they take off from 13. In the early turbojet era, they used to rattle my windows, and set off car alarm's. Worse in the summer, until we finally got air-conditioning. The new high-bypass fanjets are much quieter.


Thank you for your understanding. I personally don't mind aircraft sounds when I'm in a major city near an actual airport, even when it's one of AA's notorious Mad Dog 80's, but when I'm out in the woods I just want some peace and quiet. A brief encounter with a low flying aircraft once in blue moon is fine, but all day long every single day is a bit much.

 

 

 

Norwegian's transatlantic flights on the MAX are dirt cheap - one way fares start at $80 (for a short time they were as low as $65). Unfortunately...you have to pay extra to pick seats and get dinner, but at those prices, I'd say it's worth it.


Even a free ticket wouldn't be worth it. Norwegian can take their 29-inch knee crushing seat pitch and shove it up their turbofan.

 


Several months ago, my 6'2" Physics teacher took a Norwegian 737 MAX to Ireland and said there was plenty of space. It obviously wasn't as open and airy as a wide body, but was perfectly comfortable for a 7 hour flight.

 


I'm over six feet myself and I've found 29-inch pitch to be completely impractical. It's also extremely uncomfortable and medically risky. My knees and legs suffer pain and eventually go numb when shoved into anything less than 32 or 33 inch pitch depending on the length of the trip and the design of the seat. With 34" pitch and above and I'm fine indefinitely. I suppose it's possible your teacher lucked into a row that had more pitch than the minimum and/or was aligned differently than the others, but for someone of my height risking a long ride with extremely tight legroom is simply not worth it at any cost.


.


#25 cpotisch

cpotisch

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,243 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY
  • Interests:Planes, Trains, Cooking, Politics

Posted 11 May 2018 - 12:25 PM

I'm over six feet myself and I've found 29-inch pitch to be completely impractical. It's also extremely uncomfortable and medically risky. My knees and legs suffer pain and eventually go numb when shoved into anything less than 32 or 33 inch pitch depending on the length of the trip and the design of the seat. With 34" pitch and above and I'm fine indefinitely. I suppose it's possible your teacher lucked into a row that had more pitch than the minimum and/or was aligned differently than the others, but for someone of my height risking a long ride with extremely tight legroom is simply not worth it at any cost.

 

Have you flown on the Norwegian MAX yet?


Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome, Downeaster


#26 Ryan

Ryan

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,366 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:OTN
  • Interests:a fact checker combined with a ferret

Posted 11 May 2018 - 01:13 PM

Comfort of a seat pitch for someone of a given height can very greatly depending on proportions. If you have stubby legs and a long torso, you're probably good to go. If you have long legs and not much torso, it's going to be hell for you.

Your teacher's anecdote is interesting, but irrelevant. If Chris says that the seats are unworkable for him, you should take him at is word, rather than relay anecdotes from school.
  • cpotisch likes this
Posted Image

Disclaimer: Any images or links you see in my post may in fact be invasive advertising or even fraudulent phishing attacks silently injected into my post by our spam based hosting service. If anything looks suspicious or inappropriate or you have any doubt whatsoever then do not click any links (particularly those appearing in green and/or with a double underline) or interact with the spam in any way. You may also want to consider using ad-blocking plugins such as Adblock Plus and/or Ghostery)to help reduce the number and severity of advertising scams directed at you.

#27 cpotisch

cpotisch

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,243 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY
  • Interests:Planes, Trains, Cooking, Politics

Posted 11 May 2018 - 01:29 PM

Comfort of a seat pitch for someone of a given height can very greatly depending on proportions. If you have stubby legs and a long torso, you're probably good to go. If you have long legs and not much torso, it's going to be hell for you.

Your teacher's anecdote is interesting, but irrelevant. If Chris says that the seats are unworkable for him, you should take him at is word, rather than relay anecdotes from school.

I completely believe him. I was just wondering if he had sat in the 737 MAX, since the listed specs don't necessarily tell you everything, and the actual layout of those 29-inch seats could be different than that of other planes with the same listed dimensions.


Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome, Downeaster


#28 PVD

PVD

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,013 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NYC/Queens

Posted 11 May 2018 - 02:38 PM

Pitch as a measurement is an apples to apples standard, the space between a point on one seat and the same point on the seat in front of it, where as  comfort has many additional nuances.  Seat width, fixed armrest vs movable, amount and method of recline, angle of satbagk to seat cushion,  also length of the bottom cushion and seatback thickness factor in. That is above and beyond the physical differences between people.


  • cpotisch likes this

#29 railiner

railiner

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,271 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens, NY
  • Interests:All public transportation....land, sea, and air

Posted 11 May 2018 - 02:46 PM

Pitch as a measurement is an apples to apples standard, the space between a point on one seat and the same point on the seat in front of it, where as  comfort has many additional nuances.  Seat width, fixed armrest vs movable, amount and method of recline, angle of satbagk to seat cushion,  also length of the bottom cushion and seatback thickness factor in. That is above and beyond the physical differences between people.

All that, and the design and height of the seat in front of you.  Some seats are lower than other's on the bottom, so they can prevent your shins from extending under them....


metroblue?

okay on the blue!

#30 Devil's Advocate

Devil's Advocate

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,875 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 May 2018 - 03:00 PM

 

Comfort of a seat pitch for someone of a given height can very greatly depending on proportions. If you have stubby legs and a long torso, you're probably good to go. If you have lo ng legs and not much torso, it's going to be hell for you.Your teacher's anecdote is interesting, but irrelevant. If Chris says that the seats are unworkable for him, you should take him at is word, rather than relay anecdotes from school.

I completely believe him. I was just wondering if he had sat in the 737 MAX, since the listed specs don't necessarily tell you everything, and the actual layout of those 29-inch seats could be different than that of other planes with the same listed dimensions.

I agree that listed specs do not tell you everything, especially when it's a trait as limited in scope as generic seat pitch. That being said, I have forty different aircraft with nearly forty different airlines from which to extrapolate. Thus far the closest pitch I've been able to manage on a transoceanic flight is 32" when using recent slimline seats on newer aircraft such as the 788 and 789. Even that was merely tolerable rather than comfortable. If 30" and 31" pitch slimline seats are already too painful to manage across an ocean then what hope does 29" pitch realistically have?


Edited by Devil's Advocate, 11 May 2018 - 03:01 PM.

  • cpotisch likes this

.


#31 PVD

PVD

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,013 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NYC/Queens

Posted 11 May 2018 - 03:47 PM

To add another wrinkle, the placement and type of boxes for entertainment equipment under the seats on some aircraft can render a seat with more than adequate distance uncomfortable for placing one's feet.



#32 Devil's Advocate

Devil's Advocate

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,875 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 May 2018 - 04:34 PM

Back in the 1990's it was common for early AVOD systems (such as those found on B744's and B772's) to waste anywhere from 30%-60% of the usable coach footwell area for each affected seat.  These days it's far less of an issue with modern AVOD systems (such as those found on B787's and A380's) but if you find yourself on an intercontinental B757/B767 or early model 777 then you'd be wise to research which seats are stuck with those huge immovable boxes of foot squeezing gadgetry.


Edited by Devil's Advocate, 23 May 2018 - 12:32 PM.

.


#33 cpotisch

cpotisch

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,243 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY
  • Interests:Planes, Trains, Cooking, Politics

Posted 23 May 2018 - 11:58 AM

My 6'1" teacher is flying on another 737MAX today. We'll see if he can fit comfortably again (Norwegian).


Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service
 
Wish List: Auto Train, Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome, Downeaster





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users