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Southwest Airlines Uncontained Engine Failure, One Fatality (4/17/18)


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#21 Ryan

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 11:33 AM

More training is almost always better than less.

Then again, I’m one of those crazy people that maintains a CPR cert even though I have no job or other requirements to do so.

I’d gladly take part in airline-specific training if it were offered. It can’t hurt to be more prepared.
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#22 Bob Dylan

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 11:45 AM

More training is almost always better than less.

Then again, Im one of those crazy people that maintains a CPR cert even though I have no job or other requirements to do so.

Id gladly take part in airline-specific training if it were offered. It cant hurt to be more prepared.

This!
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#23 B757Guy

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 01:42 PM

One of the things that stands out for me, with this and the Hudson River landing, is that both the commercial pilots had former military flying history. It would be nice to feel that all pilots would be as calm and clear thinking under such pressure, but these folk seem to bring a little extra to the cockpit.

 

Ed.

 

While I am ex-military, (Air Force F-111/F-15) and appreciate the comment, I've flown with many pilots who did not come up through the military, and they are excellent pilots, whose skills during an emergency like this, I would stack up against any former military pilot. Throughout my civilian career, I have encountered maybe 2 pilots who had no business being in a cockpit, and they are long since gone now...


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I'm an airline pilot with a major US based carrier, and avid lover of trains since the very early days of Amtrak. I fondly recall GG1's zipping along the NEC, and sleeping in a slumbercoach on the Montrealer as a kid. I miss the old heritage cars, the GG1 and the original Budd Metroliners. The new equipment today simply doesn't have the same personality and elegance...


#24 trainman74

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 06:40 PM

I agree with Chris that the so called pre-flight Safety briefing is a charade that absolutely no-one pays attention too, and that the safety cards ard a sad joke too!


I couldn't help wondering whether the safety briefing on this flight had been done in a straightforward manner, or if it had been done by one of the Southwest flight attendants who peppers it liberally with jokes.

#25 cpotisch

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 09:09 PM

It's been especially frustrating to have the kid-oriented, musical, safety videos. Virgin America at one point had a rapped/sung video that lasted for five minutes but because of how many times they repeated the lines. I don't want to listen to an entire song where every line is repeated ten times, just in the hopes that it sounds catchy.

Edited by cpotisch, 19 April 2018 - 09:11 PM.

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#26 saxman

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 05:26 PM

Don't forget that it took BOTH pilots to get the aircraft on the ground safely. In normal operations the pilot monitoring (PM) is the one talking on the radios while the pilot flying (PF) is the one operating the controls. Now in an emergency situation like this, it takes some serious coordination on who is doing what. Now each airline is slightly different with their SOP's. At my airline, most emergencies or abnormalities, the controls and radios are first handed to the first officer (FO), while the captain manages the situation by first getting in the Quick Reference Handbook (QRH) and takes care of the problem. Then they have to coordinate with the flight attendants about the situation of diverting, whether or not there are hurt people, then plan with ATC about diverting. The one emergency where it is the captain doing the flying is actually the emergency decent after a depressurization, in which the captain will take control of the aircraft and ask the FO to declare an emergency with ATC and then reads off the checklist for doing said decent and tells the captain exactly what do to. At a safe altitude, then the FO can take the controls while the captain manages the situation and makes sure everyone is coordinated and all final checklists are complete. Now Southwest might have totally different procedures so we won't know who was flying until the NTSB report is out. It could have very well been the FO that flew the entire time. Or perhaps he was flying while she was managing the last minute checklists and maybe they transferred controls for the landing. Who knows yet? The fact is that it's a team effort.

 

What's amazing is that this flight had not one but TWO threats at first. They had engine fire indication immediately followed by a rapid decompression. Two immediate threats that have to be dealt with in a certain order. The decompression was obviously the more serious threat at the time because you can't fight a engine fire when you're unconscious. I'm curious to see the transcripts of their thought process when this first happened. Luckily the engine was not on fire and it was just an indication when the thing nearly disintegrated. Once at safe altitude, they still had to secure the dead engine, run the checklists for single engine approaches as they had wing damage. And make sure everything was okay in the cabin. Things weren't so they made sure medics were on hand as well. 


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#27 Bob Dylan

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 09:09 PM

Thanks for the insight from the Cockpit Chris!
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#28 railiner

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 10:02 PM

I will be very interested in the NTSB findings on this event...what their recommendations will be in prevention of another occurrence....

Reinforcing the engine shroud with some kind of light weight Kevlar belt, perhaps?  

Reducing the time between inspections, or other engine maintenance?  

Should be interesting...


metroblue?

okay on the blue!

#29 cpotisch

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 10:10 AM

I will be very interested in the NTSB findings on this event...what their recommendations will be in prevention of another occurrence....

Reinforcing the engine shroud with some kind of light weight Kevlar belt, perhaps?  

Reducing the time between inspections, or other engine maintenance?  

Should be interesting...

I imagine that a Kevlar shroud won't do much to contain an exploding jet engine that puts out 34,000 pounds of thrust. Remember that we're talking about 40 or so massive fan blades firing in all directions at 5200+ rpm. I doubt Kevlar can do much about that...


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#30 jis

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 11:36 AM

FAA has already added additional ultrasonic test requirements for operating the CFM engines in question.

 

Meanwhile there is the continuing saga of the Rolls Royce Trent 1000 Engines and their blade corrosion problems leading to inflight shutdowns....

 

http://www.godsaveth...mliner-engines/

 

Apparently even Trent 900 engines on some A380s are affected, but being a 4 engine plane the A380s are not affected by the drastic ETOPS rating reductions.


Edited by jis, 21 April 2018 - 01:39 PM.


#31 cpotisch

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 06:35 PM

Apparently even Trent 900 engines on some A380s are affected, but being a 4 engine plane the A380s are not affected by the drastic ETOPS rating reductions.

ETOPS isn't so drastic anymore. The 787 has an ETOPS rating of 330 minutes. That means that it can safely fly with one engine working for five and a half hours. So ETOPS is not really the limiting factor here.


Edited by cpotisch, 02 May 2018 - 06:36 PM.

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#32 Dakota 400

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 06:36 PM

Now, today, another Southwest 737 had an incident.  

 

Too many flights between thorough inspections for their planes?  

 

Southwest pulled out of my home airport.  Good.  I wouldn't even consider flying them now if they were a local option. 



#33 Bob Dylan

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 06:44 PM

Now, today, another Southwest 737 had an incident.  
 
Too many flights between thorough inspections for their planes?  
 
Southwest pulled out of my home airport.  Good.  I wouldn't even consider flying them now if they were a local option. 

A window cracked on the SW flight! They still have the BEST Safety Record of all the Airlines, which are THE SAFEST Way to Travel!
"There's Something About a Train! It's Magic!"-- 1970s Amtrak Ad
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Yet there isn't a train I wouldn't take,No matter where its going!.." -Edna St. Vincent Millay

#34 cpotisch

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 06:49 PM

https://nypost.com/2...-broken-window/

 

SWA, get your act together!


Edited by cpotisch, 02 May 2018 - 06:49 PM.

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#35 jis

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 07:03 PM

Apparently even Trent 900 engines on some A380s are affected, but being a 4 engine plane the A380s are not affected by the drastic ETOPS rating reductions.

ETOPS isn't so drastic anymore. The 787 has an ETOPS rating of 330 minutes. That means that it can safely fly with one engine working for five and a half hours. So ETOPS is not really the limiting factor here.
The ETOPS certification for RR Trent 787 have been temporarily cut down to 180 in case you have not been paying attention . This has led to withdrawal of 787s from some routes and substitution by other types.

Edited by jis, 02 May 2018 - 07:03 PM.

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#36 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 09:42 PM

Now, today, another Southwest 737 had an incident. Too many flights between thorough inspections for their planes? Southwest pulled out of my home airport. Good. I wouldn't even consider flying them now if they were a local option.

 

Southwest operates under the same maintenance and safety standards as any other major US airline. If the system allows unsafe operation by one carrier it allows unsafe operation by all carriers.


Edited by Devil's Advocate, 02 May 2018 - 10:31 PM.

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#37 Trogdor

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 10:22 PM

Apparently even Trent 900 engines on some A380s are affected, but being a 4 engine plane the A380s are not affected by the drastic ETOPS rating reductions.

ETOPS isn't so drastic anymore. The 787 has an ETOPS rating of 330 minutes. That means that it can safely fly with one engine working for five and a half hours. So ETOPS is not really the limiting factor here.
The ETOPS certification for RR Trent 787 have been temporarily cut down to 180 in case you have not been paying attention . This has led to withdrawal of 787s from some routes and substitution by other types.

I thought it was actually reduced to 140 minutes, not even 180.
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#38 jis

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 11:45 PM

Trog, you’re correct. 140.

#39 cpotisch

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 07:00 AM

Yikes. That's not good at all.


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#40 jis

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 08:26 AM

Yikes. That's not good at all.

That's OK. It'll eventually get fixed. Remember, the 787 fleet was entirely grounded for a while after the battery affair.


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