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Amtrak is not an airline. ..


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#61 trainman74

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 06:01 PM

Try as he might, Richard Anderson will never be able to make a train fly.   Nor any of his successors, for that matter.


You'll be eating those words when the Amfleet IIIs are equipped with fusion-powered anti-gravity technology.

(Yes, that's how long it's going to take until there's such a thing as the Amfleet III.)
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#62 SarahZ

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 07:33 PM

Haha!!! Hopefully it's not a Michigan OBS thing either and just my bad luck.

 

There is one snarly cafe car attendant on the Wolverine, but the others range from "perfectly acceptable" to "fabulous". Hopefully, you'll manage to avoid the mean one next time. :) 


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Amtrak Routes: Blue Water, California Zephyr, Capitol Limited, Carl Sandburg, City of New Orleans, Coast Starlight, Crescent, Empire Builder, Hiawatha, Illinois Zephyr, Lincoln Service, Southwest Chief, Texas Eagle, Wolverine

 

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#63 akbrian

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 05:38 PM

Airlines charging for checked luggage brought us to almost everyone trying to stuff their steamer trunk in the overhead bins and banging their luggage against every seat as the passenger works their way down the aisle resulting in a slower boarding process. I'd rather see more checked luggage and less carry on myself. It's more efficient.

 

Amtrak charging for checked luggage is a really, really bad idea. I'd rather see checked bags available at most every stop. At the smaller stops, the passengers might reasonably be asked to check and claim luggage trackside at the baggage car. Having passengers haul luggage 10 cars down the platform to their car and then up a narrow flight of stairs is not a good idea. It encourages accidents, results in slower loading, and bangs up the car interiors.

 

The current process of having the conductor determine the car number for the passenger, and then having the passengers load in an order determined by their party size makes perfect sense. There is no reason to have advance seat assignment, other than for ADA like purposes.


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#64 Thirdrail7

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 06:32 PM

The current process of having the conductor determine the car number for the passenger, and then having the passengers load in an order determined by their party size makes perfect sense. There is no reason to have advance seat assignment, other than for ADA like purposes.

 

I wouldn't go that far. Years ago, if a family boarded, you could pretty much count on people making space so they could sit together. Now, people that are traveling  together won't even sit next to each other...until the issue is almost forced.  Since there isn't assigned or pre-selected  seating (and a lot of passengers are aware of this), you can't really ask them to move or help out a family.

 

Times have changed and people have changed. If there is a way to help the families, groups and couples at down line points without impacting revenue or requiring people to move, it is worth exploring.


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They say laughter is the best medicine. Obviously they never posted on AU.


#65 Palmland

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 08:12 PM

I wonder why Amtrak doesn’t let sleeper passengers choose their room on line. Seems like it would be easy enough and most sleeper passengers have experience in choosing airline seat assignments so not a huge learning curve. Show a diagram of the sleeper and pick your space according to the type you booked - bedroom or roomette.

Maybe charge a few bucks more for the rooms on the upper level. And perhaps even allow the option to book having your meal brought to your room for those who don’t want to make the trek to the diner for a modest service charge (to eliminate the uncertainity of the amount to tip). That would help the SCA plan their workload.
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#66 Thirdrail7

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 08:27 PM

I wonder why Amtrak doesn’t let sleeper passengers choose their room on line. Seems like it would be easy enough and most sleeper passengers have experience in choosing airline seat assignments so not a huge learning curve. Show a diagram of the sleeper and pick your space according to the type you booked - bedroom or roomette.

Maybe charge a few bucks more for the rooms on the upper level. And perhaps even allow the option to book having your meal brought to your room for those who don’t want to make the trek to the diner for a modest service charge (to eliminate the uncertainity of the amount to tip). That would help the SCA plan their workload.

 

 

Largely because of this issues they've encountered and we're discussing in the Seat assignments (Acela pilot Feb 2018) thread.

Specifically:

 

 

 

What I don't get is why you can't see what seats are available or choose one before you commit to paying! As of now, you can only choose a seat after the reservation has been paid and confirmed.

 

I'm guessing that it is to prevent the following scenario: passenger X books room A CHI-DEN and passenger Y books room B DEN-EMY.  Now two rooms are not available for CHI-EMY, or Fort Morgan to Fraser for that matter.

 

The computer would assign room A to passenger Y, making room B available.

 

 

 

I'm not a Mega Bus rider but does it typically make 25+ stops on a single journey? Along a route with a high number of stops, a few well placed intermediate stop to intermediate stop selections can seriously curtail through ridership to selected points.

 

That was one of the problems with passenger selected seat assignments last time and something they've noticed this time. You have to make sure you do this in a way that does not impact through ridership and revenue and doesn't require anyone to move at some point during the trip.  Currently, the reservations system controls this function automatically. If it see a room being reserved for a portion of the trip, when it see another reservation for another portion of the trip, it will assign the same room to leave as much through space as possible. The same goes for coach seating. It calculates the space based upon maximums along the route between each pair. Without assigned seating, it calculates the "pure space." With assigned seating, you can only hope that intermediate trips come later or you can sell space to that intermediate pair...unless you only set aside certain seats for certain pairs. If that is the case, I don't really consider that "genuine seat selection." You are merely letting the passengers select from a pool of seats that has been offered to them.

 

That is why I'm betting all eyes are on 2103.


Edited by Thirdrail7, 15 April 2018 - 08:30 PM.

They say laughter is the best medicine. Obviously they never posted on AU.


#67 west point

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 08:34 PM

As told to us by oldsters.   The private RRs started charging for checked bags in the late 1950s ?  Savings and other desired advantages did not happen,  Also they would not guarantee delivery to passenger's destination dat unless bags were checked 48 hours early ?  Anyone with more details ?



#68 Lonestar648

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 11:09 PM

There is a whole separate thread on the seat selection process being on line.  Under the title here, Amtrak is not like an airline  that flies point to point totally emptying the plane at the destination verses Amtrak that has passengers ride origin to destination, but the majority who ride for a few stops before getting off.  A single aircraft may have several different flight numbers during the flying day.  Amtrak Long Distance will go one to four days under the same train number.  Both are transporting the public, the how is very different.



#69 crescent-zephyr

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 11:47 PM

AIrplanes do not totally empty at each destination. There are through passengers who remain on the plane. 


Amtrak: - Coast Starlight*, Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin*, Cascades*, Empire Builder*, California Zephyr*, Southwest Chief*, City of New Orleans*, River Cities, Illinois Zephyr*, Wolverine, Cardinal, Capitol Limited*, Lake Shore Limited, Downeaster, Acela Express*, Crescent*, Carolinian*, Silver Star*, Silver Meteor*, Maple Leaf* Texas Eagle.

 

VIA: - Canadian*

 

Iowa Pacific - Hoosier State*, and City of New Orleans Pullman*.   


#70 AmtrakBlue

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 04:43 AM

AIrplanes do not totally empty at each destination. There are through passengers who remain on the plane. 

I suspect that’s rare today.

I know it happened in the past as I took a plane from Philly to Detroit via Pittsburgh and did not change planes. But In the last few years as I look at cross country flights I haven’t noticed any that either aren’t non-stop or don’t make connections.


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#71 Steve4031

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 05:44 AM

AIrplanes do not totally empty at each destination. There are through passengers who remain on the plane. 


I think this only happens on some Southwest airlines routes. Most other airlines do the hub system.


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#72 Ryan

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 07:22 AM

And on those WN flights that do, it’s only 2-3 stops, not 20+, and they have 100% unassigned seats.
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#73 brianpmcdonnell17

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 07:52 AM

The flights also usually have very few continuing passengers, largely due to the routings often being extremely roundabout. For example, in the past (I don't know if they still do or not) flights were operated from Tampa to Fort Lauderdale with a stop in Baltimore.

Edited by brianpmcdonnell17, 16 April 2018 - 11:13 AM.

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#74 crescent-zephyr

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 10:28 AM

The flight I took from LA to Seattle with a stop in Sacramento seemed to make sense. the southwest flights I take to and from nashville usually have a continuing routing that makes sense as well.

I will say, I didn't realize it was a unique to southwest thing, I rarely fly with other airlines.

Amtrak: - Coast Starlight*, Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin*, Cascades*, Empire Builder*, California Zephyr*, Southwest Chief*, City of New Orleans*, River Cities, Illinois Zephyr*, Wolverine, Cardinal, Capitol Limited*, Lake Shore Limited, Downeaster, Acela Express*, Crescent*, Carolinian*, Silver Star*, Silver Meteor*, Maple Leaf* Texas Eagle.

 

VIA: - Canadian*

 

Iowa Pacific - Hoosier State*, and City of New Orleans Pullman*.   


#75 zephyr17

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 12:46 PM

AIrplanes do not totally empty at each destination. There are through passengers who remain on the plane. 

Um, largely nope.  I was on a AA flight last year that was same flight number and same equipment JFK-PHX-SEA.  They made the whole plane deplane in Phoenix and reboard (I was going to SEA), just as if they were connecting flights.

 

WN I think is the exception, not the rule.  And WN has free-for-all boarding so their reservation system doesn't have to handle seating.


Edited by zephyr17, 16 April 2018 - 12:47 PM.

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Pre Amtrak: SP Coast Daylight, AT&SF San Diegan, AT&SF Super Chief, D&RGW Rio Grande Zephyr

Amtrak: Southwest Limited/Chief, San Diegan/Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin, Cascades, California/San Francisco Zephyr, Coast Starlight, Empire Builder, Sunset Limited (LA-Orlando), Desert Wind, Pioneer, City of New Orleans, Silver Star, Silver Meteor, Lake Shore Limited (NY Section), Cardinal, Hoosier State (Amtrak),  Hoosier State (Iowa Pacific), Ann Rutledge, Adirondack, Maple Leaf, NE Regional, Capitol Limited

Via Rail Canada: Via Canadian (CP route), Via Super Continental, Via Atlantic Limited, Via Hudson Bay, Via Skeena, Via Canadian (CN route), Via "Corridor" (Toronto-Montreal)

Other: BC Rail Cariboo Dayliner, Alaska Railroad, Eurostar, Thalys, DB, Netherlands Rail, Austrian Railways, BR, Korail (conventional), Korail KTX


#76 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 02:01 PM

AIrplanes do not totally empty at each destination. There are through passengers who remain on the plane.

I think this only happens on some Southwest airlines routes. Most other airlines do the hub system.


The fortress/hub and focus/spoke system did away with most multi-segment direct flights and the sub-fleet home base maintenance and operations protocols did away with most of the rest. I've sometimes encountered direct flights with multiple segments on US legacies but despite having the same flight number they almost always require an aircraft change for each segment.

 

WN I think is the exception, not the rule. And WN has free-for-all boarding so their reservation system doesn't have to handle seating.


WN may be the exception but it's also the closest comparison to Amtrak.

.


#77 CAQuail

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 02:17 PM

In the +500 flights I have taken over the last 30 odd years only once have I ever stayed on a plane when making a stop.  That was about 20 years ago on Delta going home from college for Spring Break DAB-ATL-DTW.  Frankly I prefer getting off the plane and stretching my legs.



#78 Lonestar648

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 03:53 PM

I am a 3M on DL and 1M on UA, with all that flying I can not remember a time when I stayed on the plane at an airport. Now have had the change of aircraft midway which always have a seat number change. No airline has to deal with complexities that Amtrak has with reservations. I am sure Anderson has learned now how different the two companies are, both being big transporters of people.
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#79 zephyr17

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 03:57 PM

 

 

AIrplanes do not totally empty at each destination. There are through passengers who remain on the plane.

I think this only happens on some Southwest airlines routes. Most other airlines do the hub system.

 


The fortress/hub and focus/spoke system did away with most multi-segment direct flights and the sub-fleet home base maintenance and operations protocols did away with most of the rest. I've sometimes encountered direct flights with multiple segments on US legacies but despite having the same flight number they almost always require an aircraft change for each segment.

 

WN I think is the exception, not the rule. And WN has free-for-all boarding so their reservation system doesn't have to handle seating.


WN may be the exception but it's also the closest comparison to Amtrak.

 

And they manage seating the same way.  So your point is?


Pre Amtrak: SP Coast Daylight, AT&SF San Diegan, AT&SF Super Chief, D&RGW Rio Grande Zephyr

Amtrak: Southwest Limited/Chief, San Diegan/Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin, Cascades, California/San Francisco Zephyr, Coast Starlight, Empire Builder, Sunset Limited (LA-Orlando), Desert Wind, Pioneer, City of New Orleans, Silver Star, Silver Meteor, Lake Shore Limited (NY Section), Cardinal, Hoosier State (Amtrak),  Hoosier State (Iowa Pacific), Ann Rutledge, Adirondack, Maple Leaf, NE Regional, Capitol Limited

Via Rail Canada: Via Canadian (CP route), Via Super Continental, Via Atlantic Limited, Via Hudson Bay, Via Skeena, Via Canadian (CN route), Via "Corridor" (Toronto-Montreal)

Other: BC Rail Cariboo Dayliner, Alaska Railroad, Eurostar, Thalys, DB, Netherlands Rail, Austrian Railways, BR, Korail (conventional), Korail KTX


#80 crescent-zephyr

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 04:10 PM

 

And they manage seating the same way.  So your point is?

 

 

Not at all... on Southwest it's first come first serve seating. With various passengers being given priority boarding for various reasons. I've never had a Southwest Flight Attendant tell me where I had to sit for various logical or ilogical reasons like they do on Amtrak long distance. 


Amtrak: - Coast Starlight*, Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin*, Cascades*, Empire Builder*, California Zephyr*, Southwest Chief*, City of New Orleans*, River Cities, Illinois Zephyr*, Wolverine, Cardinal, Capitol Limited*, Lake Shore Limited, Downeaster, Acela Express*, Crescent*, Carolinian*, Silver Star*, Silver Meteor*, Maple Leaf* Texas Eagle.

 

VIA: - Canadian*

 

Iowa Pacific - Hoosier State*, and City of New Orleans Pullman*.   





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