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#21 jis

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 09:59 AM

I have not been following developments in Florida...wow!   Now there are three passenger railroads serving South Florida?  (Not counting transit)....

Yes. And if you throw in Central Florida as in Orlando then there is Orlando Sunrail too at the other end of the Brightline, hopefully to share a station some day at the Airport. But who knows? This is Florida where it has been alleged that land is sometimes sold in gallons rather than acres. :D



#22 neroden

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:09 PM

Moving the Cap to call at Youngstown (instead of Alliance) involves rebuilding a connection from CSX to NS at Ravenna, for which of course, currently there is no money, and there probably won;t be any unless Ohio contributes some.

 

Frankly, doing anything at all which improves service in Ohio requires money from Ohio.  If there is money from Ohio, then rebuilding the Ravenna connection is not a big deal.  If there isn't, you can't get so much as a daily Cardinal.


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#23 neroden

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:17 PM

Not expansions, or cuts, just reroutes

 

The most likely reroute, because it's already in the Illinois state plan: reroute the Texas Eagle and Lincoln Service from Joliet to Chicago over the government-owned Rock Island line.

The one I want: have Michigan buy the Toledo-Detroit line and reroute the CL and LSL over it.

One which almost happened: reroute the Texas Eagle from Austin to San Antonio as part of the planned commuter rail line... which was killed by anti-rail politicians

One which did happen: the reroute of the Texas Eagle over the TRE between Dallas and Fort Worth

One which could happen with a little money for a connection: reroute the Cardinal from Charlottesville north and save a lot of time

One which would increase ridership and revenue but is politically unlikely: reroute the SW Chief between Albuquerque, Amarillo, and Wichita


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#24 railgeekteen

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:47 PM

 

Not expansions, or cuts, just reroutes

 

The most likely reroute, because it's already in the Illinois state plan: reroute the Texas Eagle and Lincoln Service from Joliet to Chicago over the government-owned Rock Island line.

The one I want: have Michigan buy the Toledo-Detroit line and reroute the CL and LSL over it.

One which almost happened: reroute the Texas Eagle from Austin to San Antonio as part of the planned commuter rail line... which was killed by anti-rail politicians

One which did happen: the reroute of the Texas Eagle over the TRE between Dallas and Fort Worth

One which could happen with a little money for a connection: reroute the Cardinal from Charlottesville north and save a lot of time

One which would increase ridership and revenue but is politically unlikely: reroute the SW Chief between Albuquerque, Amarillo, and Wichita

 

The one bad thing about reroute all trains via Detroit is losing service to downtown South Bend.



#25 brianpmcdonnell17

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:36 PM


 


Not expansions, or cuts, just reroutes

 
The most likely reroute, because it's already in the Illinois state plan: reroute the Texas Eagle and Lincoln Service from Joliet to Chicago over the government-owned Rock Island line.
The one I want: have Michigan buy the Toledo-Detroit line and reroute the CL and LSL over it.
One which almost happened: reroute the Texas Eagle from Austin to San Antonio as part of the planned commuter rail line... which was killed by anti-rail politicians
One which did happen: the reroute of the Texas Eagle over the TRE between Dallas and Fort Worth
One which could happen with a little money for a connection: reroute the Cardinal from Charlottesville north and save a lot of time
One which would increase ridership and revenue but is politically unlikely: reroute the SW Chief between Albuquerque, Amarillo, and Wichita
 
The one bad thing about reroute all trains via Detroit is losing service to downtown South Bend.
Trains don't stop in Downtown South Bend, but I agree that service should not be cut to South Bend, Elkhart, Waterloo, and Bryan. In addition to losing nearly 75,000 passengers per year (although some would use alternate stations), the schedule would be lengthened by about 2 hours. In an ideal situation, the Wolverine corridor would have expended frequencies so current service to Pontiac can be maintained while 2-3 frequencies per day could turn south at Detroit to Toledo with connections going east and 1-2 frequencies continuing under the river to Windsor and Toronto. This will probably never happen, but I think it would be very successful if the funding could be located.
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#26 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 04:14 AM

I wouldn't reroute both the CL and LSL via Michigan but certainly one of them is reasonable (or just start a third train CHI-NEC train via PGH-PHL via Michigan).


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Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
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#27 railiner

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 02:30 AM

Before doing anything as radical as rerouting existing thru trains from the East via the slower route thru Michigan....I would suggest reviving the "Lake Cities"....a Chicago-Detroit-Toledo train with cross platform connections at Toledo...only loss would be from Detroit to Pontiac for the one train...


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#28 railgeekteen

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 08:57 PM

Before doing anything as radical as rerouting existing thru trains from the East via the slower route thru Michigan....I would suggest reviving the "Lake Cities"....a Chicago-Detroit-Toledo train with cross platform connections at Toledo...only loss would be from Detroit to Pontiac for the one train...

Why does Amtrak go to Pontiac? Why not Flint?



#29 railiner

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 09:01 PM

 

Before doing anything as radical as rerouting existing thru trains from the East via the slower route thru Michigan....I would suggest reviving the "Lake Cities"....a Chicago-Detroit-Toledo train with cross platform connections at Toledo...only loss would be from Detroit to Pontiac for the one train...

Why does Amtrak go to Pontiac? Why not Flint?

 

They go to Flint (The Blue Water from Chicago)....but I'm assuming you mean the trains via Detroit....

I don't know exactly why, but it may be that there is no suitable place to 'park' or service the trains in Flint.....and if you're asking why not Flint...then why not Bay City...or anywhere, 'upstate'?


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#30 railgeekteen

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 09:34 PM

 

 

Before doing anything as radical as rerouting existing thru trains from the East via the slower route thru Michigan....I would suggest reviving the "Lake Cities"....a Chicago-Detroit-Toledo train with cross platform connections at Toledo...only loss would be from Detroit to Pontiac for the one train...

Why does Amtrak go to Pontiac? Why not Flint?

 

They go to Flint (The Blue Water from Chicago)....but I'm assuming you mean the trains via Detroit....

I don't know exactly why, but it may be that there is no suitable place to 'park' or service the trains in Flint.....and if you're asking why not Flint...then why not Bay City...or anywhere, 'upstate'?

 

Pontiac just seems like a weird place to end a train. It would be like ending the Silver Star at Bridgeport.



#31 railiner

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 07:12 PM

 

 

 

Before doing anything as radical as rerouting existing thru trains from the East via the slower route thru Michigan....I would suggest reviving the "Lake Cities"....a Chicago-Detroit-Toledo train with cross platform connections at Toledo...only loss would be from Detroit to Pontiac for the one train...

Why does Amtrak go to Pontiac? Why not Flint?

 

They go to Flint (The Blue Water from Chicago)....but I'm assuming you mean the trains via Detroit....

I don't know exactly why, but it may be that there is no suitable place to 'park' or service the trains in Flint.....and if you're asking why not Flint...then why not Bay City...or anywhere, 'upstate'?

 

Pontiac just seems like a weird place to end a train. It would be like ending the Silver Star at Bridgeport.

 

I agree somewhat...just guessing that it has a convenient place to store, service, and maintain trains that works better than downtown Detroit....


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#32 CAQuail

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 12:31 PM

The Pontiac extension allows Amtrak to serve Troy and Royal Oak as well as Pontiac.  The three Oakland County stops had 71,163 passengers use them in 2017, mostly at Troy and Royal Oak.  Oakland county is the wealthiest county in Michigan and as such a good source of potential traffic.  I think it is fair to say that these passengers are less likely to use Amtrak if they have to drive to Dearborn or Detroit.



#33 neroden

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 02:04 PM

Before doing anything as radical as rerouting existing thru trains from the East via the slower route thru Michigan....I would suggest reviving the "Lake Cities"....a Chicago-Detroit-Toledo train with cross platform connections at Toledo...only loss would be from Detroit to Pontiac for the one train...


The key for any such proposal (and I don't really care which one) is that Michigan would have to purchase and upgrade at least one of the four Toledo-Detroit tracks, since they're currently undermaintained and have very low speed limits. :-( Until that's seriously under consideration, it's not a viable proposal sadly.

Edited by neroden, 16 April 2018 - 02:04 PM.

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#34 railgeekteen

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 02:34 PM

The Pontiac extension allows Amtrak to serve Troy and Royal Oak as well as Pontiac.  The three Oakland County stops had 71,163 passengers use them in 2017, mostly at Troy and Royal Oak.  Oakland county is the wealthiest county in Michigan and as such a good source of potential traffic.  I think it is fair to say that these passengers are less likely to use Amtrak if they have to drive to Dearborn or Detroit.

Why do no other Amtrak trains extend through the suburbs though?


Edited by railgeekteen, 16 April 2018 - 02:35 PM.


#35 brianpmcdonnell17

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 04:37 PM


The Pontiac extension allows Amtrak to serve Troy and Royal Oak as well as Pontiac.  The three Oakland County stops had 71,163 passengers use them in 2017, mostly at Troy and Royal Oak.  Oakland county is the wealthiest county in Michigan and as such a good source of potential traffic.  I think it is fair to say that these passengers are less likely to use Amtrak if they have to drive to Dearborn or Detroit.

Why do no other Amtrak trains extend through the suburbs though?
There are a few other examples of trains extending past a city into the suburbs or nearby towns. For example, the Downeaster continues through Portland to Brunswick, the Vermonter continues through Burlington/Essex Junction to St. Albans, some Capitol Corridor trains continue past Sacramento to Auburn, and the Empire Service trains that operate west of Albany continue through Buffalo to Niagara Falls.
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#36 railgeekteen

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 04:41 PM

 

 

The Pontiac extension allows Amtrak to serve Troy and Royal Oak as well as Pontiac.  The three Oakland County stops had 71,163 passengers use them in 2017, mostly at Troy and Royal Oak.  Oakland county is the wealthiest county in Michigan and as such a good source of potential traffic.  I think it is fair to say that these passengers are less likely to use Amtrak if they have to drive to Dearborn or Detroit.

Why do no other Amtrak trains extend through the suburbs though?
There are a few other examples of trains extending past a city into the suburbs or nearby towns. For example, the Downeaster continues through Portland to Brunswick, the Vermonter continues through Burlington/Essex Junction to St. Albans, some Capitol Corridor trains continue past Sacramento to Auburn, and the Empire Service trains that operate west of Albany continue through Buffalo to Niagara Falls.

 

Well St. Albans was left over from the Montrealer days. 



#37 E60JPC

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 07:59 PM

 

 

The Pontiac extension allows Amtrak to serve Troy and Royal Oak as well as Pontiac.  The three Oakland County stops had 71,163 passengers use them in 2017, mostly at Troy and Royal Oak.  Oakland county is the wealthiest county in Michigan and as such a good source of potential traffic.  I think it is fair to say that these passengers are less likely to use Amtrak if they have to drive to Dearborn or Detroit.

Why do no other Amtrak trains extend through the suburbs though?
There are a few other examples of trains extending past a city into the suburbs or nearby towns. For example, the Downeaster continues through Portland to Brunswick, the Vermonter continues through Burlington/Essex Junction to St. Albans, some Capitol Corridor trains continue past Sacramento to Auburn, and the Empire Service trains that operate west of Albany continue through Buffalo to Niagara Falls.

 

And Pacific Surfliners that run through Santa Barbara to suburban Goleta.



#38 railgeekteen

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:30 PM

 

 

 

The Pontiac extension allows Amtrak to serve Troy and Royal Oak as well as Pontiac.  The three Oakland County stops had 71,163 passengers use them in 2017, mostly at Troy and Royal Oak.  Oakland county is the wealthiest county in Michigan and as such a good source of potential traffic.  I think it is fair to say that these passengers are less likely to use Amtrak if they have to drive to Dearborn or Detroit.

Why do no other Amtrak trains extend through the suburbs though?
There are a few other examples of trains extending past a city into the suburbs or nearby towns. For example, the Downeaster continues through Portland to Brunswick, the Vermonter continues through Burlington/Essex Junction to St. Albans, some Capitol Corridor trains continue past Sacramento to Auburn, and the Empire Service trains that operate west of Albany continue through Buffalo to Niagara Falls.

 

And Pacific Surfliners that run through Santa Barbara to suburban Goleta.

 

But the route goes much further north.



#39 IndyLions

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 09:46 PM

Before doing anything as radical as rerouting existing thru trains from the East via the slower route thru Michigan....I would suggest reviving the "Lake Cities"....a Chicago-Detroit-Toledo train with cross platform connections at Toledo...only loss would be from Detroit to Pontiac for the one train...

The key for any such proposal (and I don't really care which one) is that Michigan would have to purchase and upgrade at least one of the four Toledo-Detroit tracks, since they're currently undermaintained and have very low speed limits. :-( Until that's seriously under consideration, it's not a viable proposal sadly.

But at least Michigan has a history of buying track. Don’t they now own everything from Kalamazoo to the Indiana state line on the way to Chicago?

That said, they are probably more interested spending their money on a Detroit-Ann Arbor commuter line and/or restoring some sort of Detroit - Lansing - Grand Rapids service.

As a Michigan native (although I live in IN now) I would love to see them add a third CHI-NY train routed through MI. In my opinion, if they had the equipment it would be a no brainer, and would probably be as successful as the LSL.

Michigan has great connections to western and southern trains through Chicago, but east coast connections are non-existent. There’s a lot of potential to pick up east coast bound ridership - with medium sized cities all along the route (Kalamazoo-Battle Creek-Jackson-Ann Arbor) & of course there’s Detroit.

That’s a lot more added ridership potential than a third train through South Bend and Elkhart.

#40 railiner

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 10:16 AM

I might agree with that, if they could get the running time close to that of Chicago-Toledo via Elkhart, otherwise, I would stand by my suggestion of just extending an existing Michigan train to Toledo and time it to make the connections....and they could do that now, without adding another train...


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