Back to the Buckets: Amtrak's bizarre pricing

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Northeastern292

Service Attendant
Joined
Nov 9, 2013
Messages
109
Location
Ferndale, NY/Brooklyn, NY
For several Saturdays this year, the one way between Schenectady and New York on 68 (SB Adirondack) is $62 while on 69 (NB Adirondack) it is $44. Why is it more expensive in one direction than another? I've noticed this in the past as well.....
 
For several Saturdays this year, the one way between Schenectady and New York on 68 (SB Adirondack) is $62 while on 69 (NB Adirondack) it is $44. Why is it more expensive in one direction than another? I've noticed this in the past as well.....
Most likely because there are fewer seats left southbound. Supply and demand. When your booking flights, is it always the same price each way?
 
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I've rarely paid the same price BOTH ways on the AT ! It's priced by occupancy (among other factors)...i.e. a full train runs almost twice the fare as the empty one. As the "Snowbirds" migrate, I've has 2 dinner seating one way and 4 the other...and the fare reflected that! The train may be capacity going South, but empty North as it has to come back for the next load!!!! I think once I paid $1,000 one way and $600 back. But one question I always get...and hate...is: how much does the AT cost r/t? Welll...I've spent $1,600...I've spent $3,500. LOL It's like: "How much is a new car?"! LOL
 
For several Saturdays this year, the one way between Schenectady and New York on 68 (SB Adirondack) is $62 while on 69 (NB Adirondack) it is $44. Why is it more expensive in one direction than another? I've noticed this in the past as well.....
Most likely because there are fewer seats left southbound. Supply and demand. When your booking flights, is it always the same price each way?
Well of course, but knowing the nature of the train, Saturday is usually a low day. Heck, in January I was seated in an Amfleet II in both directions.
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And you can check future prices for those and all other Amtrak trains on amsnag.net


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As I do my planning, I do a 30 day inquiry on AMSNAG to see where the fares are at that time. This tells me some dates I may want to avoid since the train is already getting loaded. Once I have my first, second, and third choice dates, I put them in AMSNAG to watch what happens. Sometimes the price drops, so I make the commitment, others, it is a guess of when is best.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_pricing

I'll be on the CZ next week.

A couple of weeks ago the train was completely book. Every ticket/accommodation type was None Left.

Then a Bedroom opened up and was available for $1813.

Apparently several bedrooms are available as of today because the price is now down almost $1000 - to $833.

And a Roomette or 2 have opened up, but as of today a Roomette is $917 - approaching $100 more than a bedroom.
 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_pricing

I'll be on the CZ next week.

A couple of weeks ago the train was completely book. Every ticket/accommodation type was None Left.

Then a Bedroom opened up and was available for $1813.

Apparently several bedrooms are available as of today because the price is now down almost $1000 - to $833.

And a Roomette or 2 have opened up, but as of today a Roomette is $917 - approaching $100 more than a bedroom.
My guess is that the rail touring company didn't sell all of the rooms in the sleepers that they had reserved. Of all the trains that we travel on, we have never been on a a trip without running into a tour group on the CZ May thru Sept. IMO, rail touring companies are driving the prices up for all of us. My guess is that since they represent volume, they also get special T's and C's.
 
But nobody seems to have addressed the OP's question about the Adirondack. While I don't have an answer, a little work with AmSnag shows the situation between SDY and NYP to be even more peculiar than originally reported!

For the next 11 months:

• $62 is the coach fare on 68 from SDY to NYP every single day of that 11 month period. Without exception. But going the other way...

• $44 is the coach fare on 69 from NYP to SDY every day except:

♦ The next two Fridays when it's $62,

♦ This coming Saturday when it's $62, and

♦ Then every Monday and Tuesday until the end of the 11 month period when It's $62

This pricing anomaly does not seem to exist between NYP and MTR. AU pundits are invited to concoct a reason why Wednesday through Sunday fares are $18 cheaper for the next 11 months on the Northbound Adirondack to SDY.
 
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But nobody seems to have addressed the OP's question about the Adirondak. While I don't have an answer, a little work with AmSnag shows the situation between SDY and NYP to be even more peculiar than originally reported!

For the next 11 months:

• $62 is the coach fare on 68 from SDY to NYP every single day of that 11 month period. Without exception. But going the other way...

• $44 is the coach fare on 69 from NYP to SDY every day except:

♦ The next two Fridays when it's $62,

♦ This coming Saturday when it's $62, and

♦ Then every Monday and Tuesday until the end of the 11 month period when It's $62

This pricing anomaly does not seem to exist between NYP and MTR. AU pundits are invited to concoct a reason why Wednesday through Sunday fares are $18 cheaper for the next 11 months on the Northbound Adirondak to SDY.
The answer may be that train ticket sales history figures into the equation. Prices may ride on anticipated demand. .
 
After a bit more thought the question of which fare was the "normal" fare arose - $44 or $62? Had initially though the normal fare was $62 simply because that was the constant fare for SDY to NYP Value Fare on the Adirondack. Howsomever, an Arrow query for 9 Oct 2018 showed that train at $62 but 5 other trains were $44 for the same trip!

Based on that, my guess is that the normal fare is $44 - if anything about Amtrak fares could be considered normal.
 
After a bit more thought the question of which fare was the "normal" fare arose - $44 or $62? Had initially though the normal fare was $62 simply because that was the constant fare for SDY to NYP Value Fare on the Adirondack. Howsomever, an Arrow query for 9 Oct 2018 showed that train at $62 but 5 other trains were $44 for the same trip!

Based on that, my guess is that the normal fare is $44 - if anything about Amtrak fares could be considered normal.
I would have thought the $44 would apply to both directions. Maybe the $62 is the constant.
Then again, I miss the old days, when Amtrak had flat fares and most corridor trains were unreserved. Old days that I can barely remember.

That said, later this year I'm going to be going on a points spree (hoping to make Select by the fall), so most of my fall train trips will be with the highest bucket. It's a downer that the Adirondack lacks business class!

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I find it bizarre that people think some combination of fares as bizarre in a setup which is designed to produce random combination of fares that maximizes the value of an expected value function based on inputs that we know nothing about.
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Speaking of "bizarre" fares, have you looked at the airlines any time in the last 25 years or so?

It is all from yield management, flat fares went the way of the dodo a long, long time ago. Amtrak's yield management is much simpler and straightforward than the airlines, 5 buckets, not tweaked on a second by second basis.
 
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I don't think anybody can gain an appreciation for the weirdness of all this until they do 11 consecutive AmSnag searches for the Adirondack from NYP to SDY and see 11 entire months of $44 fares punctuated at regular and precise intervals by $62 fares on each and every Monday and Tuesday for 48 consecutive weeks - without fail - never anything but $62 on those two days!
 
I find it bizarre that people think some combination of fares as bizarre in a setup which is designed to produce random combination of fares that maximizes the value of an expected value function based on inputs that we know nothing about.
default_biggrin.png
Random? This combination of fares is far from random. It's as regular as clockwork!! Five consecutive days of $44 fares followed by two $62 fares - and that same identical pattern repeated 47 more times for a total of 48 weeks!!!

That ain't random..That's weird and bizarre all rolled up into one. Don't take my word for it. See for yourself. Do the 11 consecutive 30 day AmSnag searches for NYP to SDY on the Adirondack.
 
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And if you don't have time to do as suggested, maybe visualizing 48 consecutive images like this will let you see my point:

NYP - SDY Anomaly.jpg

11 solid months of that is getting close to being downright spooky!
 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_pricing

I'll be on the CZ next week.

A couple of weeks ago the train was completely book. Every ticket/accommodation type was None Left.

Then a Bedroom opened up and was available for $1813.

Apparently several bedrooms are available as of today because the price is now down almost $1000 - to $833.

And a Roomette or 2 have opened up, but as of today a Roomette is $917 - approaching $100 more than a bedroom.
My guess is that the rail touring company didn't sell all of the rooms in the sleepers that they had reserved. Of all the trains that we travel on, we have never been on a a trip without running into a tour group on the CZ May thru Sept. IMO, rail touring companies are driving the prices up for all of us. My guess is that since they represent volume, they also get special T's and C's.
The Bedrooms and Family rooms are all sold out again and with the departure date less than a week away Amtrak is offering one or more of the Accessible rooms to anyone for $1181.

Whatever Roomettes are still available are still $917 - a bit more than 2x what I paid by booking in advance.

I'm checking priced OTM to SAC.
 
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I don't think anybody can gain an appreciation for the weirdness of all this until they do 11 consecutive AmSnag searches for the Adirondack from NYP to SDY and see 11 entire months of $44 fares punctuated at regular and precise intervals by $62 fares on each and every Monday and Tuesday for 48 consecutive weeks - without fail - never anything but $62 on those two days!
Please. Looking at my vacation for this summer...

IAH-CDG-ATH, on Air France, $647 pp round trip.

IAH-CDG, on Air France, on the SAME DATES, and the SAME FLIGHT, $955 pp round trip.

So I'd be paying $312 pp... to NOT fly on another of their flights.

When you find this level of "weirdness" on Amtrak, please let me know. TIA.
 
On the surface, it almost looks like the French are trying to discourage Texas tourists from visiting Paris by making it cheaper for them to fly on to Athens. I wonder if Bastille Day on July 14th has something to do with it?

Recall hearing of something similar on the Crescent route where it's cheaper to go a longer distance from a certain station, but don't recall the city pairs involved.
 
On the surface, it almost looks like the French are trying to discourage Texas tourists from visiting Paris by making it cheaper for them to fly on to Athens. I wonder if Bastille Day on July 14th has something to do with it?

Recall hearing of something similar on the Crescent route where it's cheaper to go a longer distance from a certain station, but don't recall the city pairs involved.
im pretty sure I’ve heard of flights with connections being cheaper than direct flights to the connecting city. In fact people would book the longer flight and just not board the 2nd flight. Airlines were not happy about that.

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On the surface, it almost looks like the French are trying to discourage Texas tourists from visiting Paris by making it cheaper for them to fly on to Athens. I wonder if Bastille Day on July 14th has something to do with it?

Recall hearing of something similar on the Crescent route where it's cheaper to go a longer distance from a certain station, but don't recall the city pairs involved.
im pretty sure I’ve heard of flights with connections being cheaper than direct flights to the connecting city. In fact people would book the longer flight and just not board the 2nd flight. Airlines were not happy about that.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
Same thing with booking a round trip. I've seen round trips cheaper than a one-way, especially with the big three.
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On the surface, it almost looks like the French are trying to discourage Texas tourists from visiting Paris by making it cheaper for them to fly on to Athens. I wonder if Bastille Day on July 14th has something to do with it?
The French must still resent that in Paris, Texas, no one speaks French! [emoji38]

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You see this quite often in Sleepers on Amtrak LD Trains where Amtrak is trying to block rooms for LD Travelers as opposed to "Shorts" booking the rooms for just part of the route.
 
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On the surface, it almost looks like the French are trying to discourage Texas tourists from visiting Paris by making it cheaper for them to fly on to Athens. I wonder if Bastille Day on July 14th has something to do with it?

Recall hearing of something similar on the Crescent route where it's cheaper to go a longer distance from a certain station, but don't recall the city pairs involved.
im pretty sure I’ve heard of flights with connections being cheaper than direct flights to the connecting city. In fact people would book the longer flight and just not board the 2nd flight. Airlines were not happy about that.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
So-called 'hidden city' flights are actually relatively common. You can use this site to find them. Just remember not to check a bag on a hidden-city flight, as that bag will end up at the final airport, which you probably don't want.
 
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