Losing my children to California’s overcrowded trains

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TinCan782

TinCan782

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The Pacific Surfliner that day was mobbed, with every seat taken and passengers standing in the aisles and the stairwells.

http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/california-forum/article201587844.html

Don’t let the train deniers win. More train service – including high-speed rail – can’t get here fast enough.

High-speed rail wont solve the Pacific Surfliner's crowding and other Amtrak California issues. I would have preferred that (state) funding went to IMPROVING existing passenger rail - higher speed, greater frequency and more equipment rather than our current HSR project (which some call a boondoggle).
 
The biggest thing I read (between the lines) is that the Surfliners should have reserved seating in coach (as they do in BC and on most every other train on Amtrak) so that everyone has a seat - and nobody stands in the aisle!
 
If this did actually happen...

___ when an announcement came over the sound system: “Mrs. Mathews, we have two of your children here in the café car. Mrs. Mathews, you should never let your children walk unaccompanied on an Amtrak train.”

Then that is amazingly unprofessional behavior on the part of the train crew. Use the PA, sure, but spare the lecture. And since when do kids NOT wander around Amtrak trains? I have ridden on 5 or 6 routes and there are unaccompanied kids everywhere. Given the crowding on that particular train I could see parents needing to be a bit more careful but that lecture was completely unfair. But on the positive side, it probably didn't actually happen that way since a writer often plays a bit fast and loose with the truth...
 
The Surfliners have reserved seating during big events, like the Del Mar racing season. I was on it the last time they did that, and it seemed to work OK. But if it had come to a choice, I would have rather stood in a jammed train than not ridden at all.

The Capitol Corridor is unreserved, and the San Joaquins draft plan calls for backing away from reserved seating. I think that's the right direction to go -- the California trains are first and foremost public transportation, and the more public they can transport, the better. The real answer is more/longer trains, but until that happens crowding is better than turning people away.
 
Ziv said:
If this did actually happen...

___ when an announcement came over the sound system: “Mrs. Mathews, we have two of your children here in the café car. Mrs. Mathews, you should never let your children walk unaccompanied on an Amtrak train.”

Then that is amazingly unprofessional behavior on the part of the train crew. Use the PA, sure, but spare the lecture. And since when do kids NOT wander around Amtrak trains? I have ridden on 5 or 6 routes and there are unaccompanied kids everywhere. Given the crowding on that particular train I could see parents needing to be a bit more careful but that lecture was completely unfair. But on the positive side, it probably didn't actually happen that way since a writer often plays a bit fast and loose with the truth...
Click to expand...
I wondered about the "lecture" as well...the first part, advising of the kids in the cafe car would have been sufficient. I don't recall rules or, an announcement, regarding "loose kids" these trains, or LD trains for that matter either.
 
TiBike said:
The Surfliners have reserved seating during big events, like the Del Mar racing season. I was on it the last time they did that, and it seemed to work OK. But if it had come to a choice, I would have rather stood in a jammed train than not ridden at all.

The Capitol Corridor is unreserved, and the San Joaquins draft plan calls for backing away from reserved seating. I think that's the right direction to go -- the California trains are first and foremost public transportation, and the more public they can transport, the better. The real answer is more/longer trains, but until that happens crowding is better than turning people away.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree - given the choice, I'd rather squeeze onto a crowded train than be left behind. Like the Surfliners, the Hiawathas are typically unreserved and I've ridden on a few that had every seat filled and people standing or sitting on the floor/their bags.
 
Brings up the old questions ---- why aren't there more cars?

1. Well if NS had not failed new bi-level cars would be now entering service.

2. Another reason that congress has starved Amtrak rolling stock funds.

3. Why can't California lease more cars at least at this time of the year that is slow for Amtrak ?

4. Is there any reason that the Surfliners are length limited ? Loco acceleration ; platform length , etc ?

5. Are there any additional slots SAN <> LAX that would be able to mitigate these overloaded trains or not ?
 
west point said:
Brings up the old questions ---- why aren't there more cars?

1. Well if NS had not failed new bi-level cars would be now entering service.

2. Another reason that congress has starved Amtrak rolling stock funds.

3. Why can't California lease more cars at least at this time of the year that is slow for Amtrak ?

4. Is there any reason that the Surfliners are length limited ? Loco acceleration ; platform length , etc ?

5. Are there any additional slots SAN <> LAX that would be able to mitigate these overloaded trains or not ?
Click to expand...
You also left out the states have starved their railroad programs for a long time as well. They are low priority and new equipment has a long lead time. As for leasing equipment, who really has it to lease? They already leased equipment from NJT (who has to lease equipment from MARC) and altered schedules to bring in equipment from the north. Additionally, with two talgo trains o/o/s, it isn't like Amtrak is swimming with surplus equipment.
 
FrensicPic said:
Ziv said:
If this did actually happen...

___ when an announcement came over the sound system: “Mrs. Mathews, we have two of your children here in the café car. Mrs. Mathews, you should never let your children walk unaccompanied on an Amtrak train.”

Then that is amazingly unprofessional behavior on the part of the train crew. Use the PA, sure, but spare the lecture. And since when do kids NOT wander around Amtrak trains? I have ridden on 5 or 6 routes and there are unaccompanied kids everywhere. Given the crowding on that particular train I could see parents needing to be a bit more careful but that lecture was completely unfair. But on the positive side, it probably didn't actually happen that way since a writer often plays a bit fast and loose with the truth...
Click to expand...
I wondered about the "lecture" as well...the first part, advising of the kids in the cafe car would have been sufficient. I don't recall rules or, an announcement, regarding "loose kids" these trains, or LD trains for that matter either.
Click to expand...
Well, it sure beats an announcement that the kids were thrown off the train at the last stop. (Just kidding!)
 
On every LD trip I've taken, I've heard the conductors and/or car attendants make announcements that children under a certain age (I can't remember) are not allowed to roam around unattended. I've heard this multiple times during trips, usually after large stops. It's often part of the initial boarding welcome where they list the rules about smoking and such.

I hear it on the Wolverine and Blue Water every so often, but it's pretty rare. I hear more reminders about smoking than kids.
 
anumberone said:
Was Mrs Mathews aware her children were missing?
Click to expand...
"The Pacific Surfliner that day was mobbed, with every seat taken and passengers standing in the aisles and the stairwells. So when I took those two hungry boys in the direction of the café car, the crowds were so thick I couldn’t squeeze through. The boys, now nine and seven, are very skinny and insisted on continuing on, despite my pleas, beginning a memorable adventure."
 
Losing my children to California’s overcrowded trains
Click to expand...
After reading this far, I am still unsure if this was a good thing or a bad thing.
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Though, I can say as a parent, I have had the situation where I had to be separated from my child, because there weren't any double seats available anywhere. It seems the initial single passengers all grab a window seat, leaving only single isle seats, here and there, for any/all subsequent passengers. Of course, these passengers are probably their regulars so no conductor nor attendant would ever dream of asking half of them to move.

Actually, I didn't have a problem. If their regulars like to be this way, then they can deal with my kid sitting next to them for the next few hours.
default_help.gif
 
FrensicPic said:
Don’t let the train deniers win. More train service – including high-speed rail – can’t get here fast enough.

High-speed rail wont solve the Pacific Surfliner's crowding and other Amtrak California issues. I would have preferred that (state) funding went to IMPROVING existing passenger rail - higher speed, greater frequency and more equipment rather than our current HSR project (which some call a boondoggle).
Click to expand...
Exactly! I don't see any reason why HSR would cause the Surfliners to be less crowded. And the "Mrs. Mathews, we have two of your children here in the café car. Mrs. Mathews, you should never let your children walk unaccompanied on an Amtrak train.” Why would the crew give her a talking-to over the loudspeaker? And it's phrased as if neither of them knew they're kids were missing. And why would they just be talking about Mrs. Mathews? Wasn't the dad walking the one walking them to the cafe car? This story is either sensationalized, exaggerated, or fabricated altogether.
 
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SarahZ said:
On every LD trip I've taken, I've heard the conductors and/or car attendants make announcements that children under a certain age (I can't remember) are not allowed to roam around unattended. I've heard this multiple times during trips, usually after large stops. It's often part of the initial boarding welcome where they list the rules about smoking and such.

I hear it on the Wolverine and Blue Water every so often, but it's pretty rare. I hear more reminders about smoking than kids.
Click to expand...
 
cpotisch said:
FrensicPic said:
And the "Mrs. Mathews, we have two of your children here in the café car. Mrs. Mathews, you should never let your children walk unaccompanied on an Amtrak train. Why would the crew give her a talking-to over the loudspeaker? And it's phrased as if neither of them knew they're kids were missing. And why would they just be talking about Mrs. Mathews? Wasn't the dad walking the one walking them to the cafe car? This story is either sensationalized, exaggerated, or fabricated altogether.
Click to expand...
While I don't remember any announcements warning about unaccompanied children roaming around on the Surfliner, I certainly have never heard any announcement that vaguely comes close to the one reported in this article. So, cospitch, I think you are right!
Click to expand...
 
California is also already tapping into pretty desperate sources of equipment as it is... There's at least one rumor that they are looking at shoving the Santa Fe High Level Fleet back into service to deal with this. About the only thing they haven't done, as far as I can tell, is piggybacking on commuter equipment orders and reworking the seating arrangements. The long lead time is a problem... But that is hardly California's fault. It's really nobody's fault, just down to the tyranny of small decisions after a fashion.
 
CAMISSY55 said:
While I don't remember any announcements warning about unaccompanied children roaming around on the Surfliner, I certainly have never heard any announcement that vaguely comes close to the one reported in this article. So, cospitch, I think you are right!
Click to expand...
IT'S CPOTISCH! HOW DARE YOU! (Just kidding.
default_wink.png
)

But seriously, like, wouldn't he be close behind the kids on the way to the cafe car? He wouldn't just be sitting with Mrs. Mathews and only then remember that his kids are in the cafe alone when the announcement was made. Did he just give up immediately after the kids walked ahead, and go back to his seat? In that case, I don't think his blame is "absolved". And if he went back to his seat, wouldn't Mrs. Mathews immediately notice he didn't have HER KIDS? In which case it took a PA announcement to remind them their kids existed. The more I think about this, the less sense it makes.
 
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You are so right. I reread the story several times and it just doesn't make sense.

Sorry about botching your handle, cpotisch!
 
FrensicPic said:
High-speed rail wont solve the Pacific Surfliner's crowding and other Amtrak California issues. I would have preferred that (state) funding went to IMPROVING existing passenger rail - higher speed, greater frequency and more equipment rather than our current HSR project (which some call a boondoggle).
Click to expand...
The completion of HSR might even conceivably make the crowding worse with more people taking the regional trains to the HSR!
 
Metra Electric Rider said:
FrensicPic said:
High-speed rail wont solve the Pacific Surfliner's crowding and other Amtrak California issues. I would have preferred that (state) funding went to IMPROVING existing passenger rail - higher speed, greater frequency and more equipment rather than our current HSR project (which some call a boondoggle).
Click to expand...
The completion of HSR might even conceivably make the crowding worse with more people taking the regional trains to the HSR!
Click to expand...
Also quite true. This was one dumb article.
 
cpotisch said:
Metra Electric Rider said:
FrensicPic said:
High-speed rail wont solve the Pacific Surfliner's crowding and other Amtrak California issues. I would have preferred that (state) funding went to IMPROVING existing passenger rail - higher speed, greater frequency and more equipment rather than our current HSR project (which some call a boondoggle).
Click to expand...
The completion of HSR might even conceivably make the crowding worse with more people taking the regional trains to the HSR!
Click to expand...
Also quite true. This was one dumb article.
Click to expand...
Hopefully by the time the HSR system is up and running the regional and local trains will be upgraded and more frequent.
 
Metra Electric Rider said:
cpotisch said:
Metra Electric Rider said:
FrensicPic said:
High-speed rail wont solve the Pacific Surfliner's crowding and other Amtrak California issues. I would have preferred that (state) funding went to IMPROVING existing passenger rail - higher speed, greater frequency and more equipment rather than our current HSR project (which some call a boondoggle).
Click to expand...
The completion of HSR might even conceivably make the crowding worse with more people taking the regional trains to the HSR!
Click to expand...
Also quite true. This was one dumb article.
Click to expand...
Hopefully by the time the HSR system is up and running the regional and local trains will be upgraded and more frequent.
Click to expand...
I think the Surfliners are already plenty frequent. And the level of crowding described in the article just isn’t possible. “It took us 5 minutes to get through the final 40 feet of seats” That couldn’t possibly be permitted under fire codes and regulations. “But the conductor couldn’t get through” Then how would he have checked peoples tickets?
With the described crowding, how would passengers have gotten off the train before the doors closed at their stop? The scenario in this article would be objectively unsafe and basically impossible.
 

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