Staff hogging space in the cafe

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williamn

Train Attendant
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
73
I'm an occasional Amtrak user (being currently based in Toronto), and one thing that often bugs me is the way Amtrak staff take up SO much space in the cafe car. On the Maple Leaf today they had spread their belongings over three tables, leaving only 3 for public use. Is it just me or is that pretty unreasonable?
 
That's a pet peeve of mine, too. I realize they need some space, but when it's preventing paying customers from using the tables I think it's inconsiderate, especially if it's one crew person per table. But some crews are much better than others.
 
I'm an occasional Amtrak user (being currently based in Toronto), and one thing that often bugs me is the way Amtrak staff take up SO much space in the cafe car. On the Maple Leaf today they had spread their belongings over three tables, leaving only 3 for public use. Is it just me or is that pretty unreasonable?
It's not only unreasonable, it's against Amtrak policy. IIRC the staff is allowed to monopolize ONE table. I've seen staff use other tables but vacate them if passengers showed up, which is of course fine.

I'm not sure what the best way to report table-hogging, but you should at least be able to get a voucher: the lounge is an advertised amenity.
 
And such happens on the LD train Diners as well. I have trouble understanding why the train's Officials need to occupy space in such public cars that could be better used for revenue production for Amtrak.

But. then, I ask myself, if the employees need "office space", where ought they find this? On the LD trains with a Sightseer Lounge Car, I would suggest one of the tables on the lower level. Never have I found those tables 100% used.
 
It's not only unreasonable, it's against Amtrak policy. IIRC the staff is allowed to monopolize ONE table. I've seen staff use other tables but vacate them if passengers showed up, which is of course fine.

I'm not sure what the best way to report table-hogging, but you should at least be able to get a voucher: the lounge is an advertised amenity.
Don't worry Neroden. If assigned seating makes it, crew members and any other non revenue rider will have to ride on the roof of the equipment. After all, they don't want them in the non revenue riders taking up revenue seats. They don't want the non revenue riders in the non revenue seats (cafe, diner{unless it is night} or baggage car) and they aren't allowed in the engine if they aren't rules qualified and holding a head end pass.

It's either the roof or the crumple zone!

Now, where are those bag/dorms?
 
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The Superliner Coach-Bags have a nice open area downstairs I have rarely if ever seen filled with baggage; there is already a Conductor's table there, and the rest of that space can easily be converted to an office suite.
 
Don't worry Neroden. If assigned seating makes it, crew members and any other non revenue rider will have to ride on the roof of the equipment. After all, they don't want them in the non revenue riders taking up revenue seats. They don't want the non revenue riders in the non revenue seats (cafe, diner{unless it is night} or baggage car) and they aren't allowed in the engine if they aren't rules qualified and holding a head end pass.

It's either the roof or the crumple zone!

Now, where are those bag/dorms?

Most other national railroad systems seem to have found a way to figure out where to put the staff. Even without that, why do three crew have to take up three tables? Isn't one enough?
 
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Most other national railroad systems seem to have found a way to figure out where to put the staff. Even without that, why do three crew have to take up three tables? Isn't one enough?
There were crew spaces on previous equipment and it is my impression that some other national systems have eliminated portions of the crew that would take up space. Besides, crew spaces take up potential revenue space.

I'd have to see "taking up" three tables. I've been aboard trains and witnessed crew members sitting at separate tables. Those tables are not for everyone. Not everyone can fit collectively in those booths. However, not one person even attempted to sit across or even next to them. Does that mean they were "hogging" the tables?

As Neroden states, it is one thing if they are monopolizing the tables and refusing to let anyone sit next them, blocking the space upon request or not moving if a group wants a table.. It is quite another if they are just sitting there and no one even attempts to sit with them or looks, doesn't see an empty table and just walks away.

I remember when crews were all but forbidden from lingering or sitting in the cafe cars, with the exception of the 53 seat cafes. I still think it is bad idea for them to be in the cafe car except for a train such as the Maple Leaf, Pennsylvanian or any other train has the cafe on the rear of the train. I'v e mentioned it in the past. Crew members should be spread out, in case of emergency. What good is it if your entire crew is in one section of the train? However, with ridership high and trains short, they'd rather not block out revenue seats.

The airline brigade behind the Acela didn't want anyone in the cafe car, which is why they created the Bistro concept. That certainly eliminated the problem of crews (or anyone else) hogging space in the cafe car.
default_happy.png
If my memory serves, I DO believe the modified bistro cafe cars had a crew space.

Does anyone remember? Jis? Marc Rider? Ryan? Blue?
 
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Most other national railroad systems seem to have found a way to figure out where to put the staff. Even without that, why do three crew have to take up three tables? Isn't one enough?
There were crew spaces on previous equipment and it is my impression that some other national systems have eliminated portions of the crew that would take up space. Besides, crew spaces take up potential revenue space.

I'd have to see "taking up" three tables. I've been aboard trains and witnessed crew members sitting at separate tables. Those tables are not for everyone. Not everyone can fit collectively in those booths. However, not one person even attempted to sit across or even next to them. Does that mean they were "hogging" the tables?

As Neroden states, it is one thing if they are monopolizing the tables and refusing to let anyone sit next them, blocking the space upon request or not moving if a group wants a table.. It is quite another if they are just sitting there and no one even attempts to sit with them or looks, doesn't see an empty table and just walks away.

I remember when crews were all but forbidden from lingering or sitting in the cafe cars, with the exception of the 53 seat cafes. I still think it is bad idea for them to be in the cafe car except for a train such as the Maple Leaf, Pennsylvanian or any other train has the cafe on the rear of the train. I'v e mentioned it in the past. Crew members should be spread out, in case of emergency. What good is it if your entire crew is in one section of the train? However, with ridership high and trains short, they'd rather not block out revenue seats.

The airline brigade behind the Acela didn't want anyone in the cafe car, which is why they created the Bistro concept. That certainly eliminated the problem of crews (or anyone else) hogging space in the cafe car.
default_happy.png
If my memory serves, I DO believe the modified bistro cafe cars had a crew space.

Does anyone remember? Jis? Marc Rider? Ryan? Blue?
I rarely ride the Acela, but did ride back in December in the car behind the cafe car. It appeared to me, from my seat, that the conductors were hanging out on that end of the cafe. I approached one as we were arriving at WIL to get my ticket scanned - gotta get those points
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Most other national railroad systems seem to have found a way to figure out where to put the staff. Even without that, why do three crew have to take up three tables? Isn't one enough?
There were crew spaces on previous equipment and it is my impression that some other national systems have eliminated portions of the crew that would take up space. Besides, crew spaces take up potential revenue space.

I'd have to see "taking up" three tables. I've been aboard trains and witnessed crew members sitting at separate tables. Those tables are not for everyone. Not everyone can fit collectively in those booths. However, not one person even attempted to sit across or even next to them. Does that mean they were "hogging" the tables?

As Neroden states, it is one thing if they are monopolizing the tables and refusing to let anyone sit next them, blocking the space upon request or not moving if a group wants a table.. It is quite another if they are just sitting there and no one even attempts to sit with them or looks, doesn't see an empty table and just walks away.

I remember when crews were all but forbidden from lingering or sitting in the cafe cars, with the exception of the 53 seat cafes. I still think it is bad idea for them to be in the cafe car except for a train such as the Maple Leaf, Pennsylvanian or any other train has the cafe on the rear of the train. I'v e mentioned it in the past. Crew members should be spread out, in case of emergency. What good is it if your entire crew is in one section of the train? However, with ridership high and trains short, they'd rather not block out revenue seats.

The airline brigade behind the Acela didn't want anyone in the cafe car, which is why they created the Bistro concept. That certainly eliminated the problem of crews (or anyone else) hogging space in the cafe car.
default_happy.png
If my memory serves, I DO believe the modified bistro cafe cars had a crew space.

Does anyone remember? Jis? Marc Rider? Ryan? Blue?
How about me or OBS? [emoji14]
Yes, there's a conductors office with a locking door, radio, and some of the equipment readouts the engineer has, and a little bit of desk space for paperwork. It's ideally meant for the conductor and AC, but given the uh...size of many T&E crews that work the Acelas, only one typically sits in there.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Amtrak Forum mobile app
 
Allow me to clear something up for you Triley:

The airline brigade behind the Acela didn't want anyone in the cafe car, which is why they created the Bistro concept. That certainly eliminated the problem of crews (or anyone else) hogging space in the cafe car.
default_happy.png
If my memory serves, I DO believe the modified bistro cafe cars[i/] had a crew space.

Does anyone remember? Jis? Marc Rider? Ryan? Blue?
How about me or OBS? [emoji14]

Yes, there's a conductors office with a locking door, radio, and some of the equipment readouts the engineer has, and a little bit of desk space for paperwork. It's ideally meant for the conductor and AC, but given the uh...size of many T&E crews that work the Acelas, only one typically sits in there.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Amtrak Forum mobile app 
 

I am not referring to the cafe car on the Acela. I'm talking about a fleet of former table and 53 seat cafe cars that were stripped and reconfigured into the Bistro concept. It tanked miserably. It tanked so badly, that the cars were stored, unserviceable for years. They weren't unearthed until the stimulus funds were used to convert them. The only remaining example is the merchandise car on the exhibit train.

 

I can't speak for OBS, but I'm willing to bet you were not around in the early 2000s when this wasteful, costly concept raged on. However, I suspect Jis and possibly the other members I mentioned may have been around for the concept.
 
Don't the newer transdorm's have a crew 'office' in them? Not sure, I haven't been in one....

With the modern scanning of tickets, I would think that paperwork has been vastly reduced for conductor's from the day's of spreading out tickets and putting them into pouches, etc...

So less need to take up all that table space....if they do it on otherwise unused diner table's (off hours) it wouldn't be a problem.

As for corridor trains...commuter rr crew seem to do their paper work on their feet, or in one of those tiny motorman cabs...not the same, of course...but just sayin'......
 
None of them were actually sitting there but they had 'claimed' three tables by leaving their belongings and papers on them in such a way that you'd have to clear something if you wanted to sit down.
 
If none of them were around I would be tempted to discretely take a picture of the table occupied by paperwork and send it with my complaint. I would not to take pictures of the any crew. Iirc that is a violation of the amtrak policy unless permission us granted.

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Conductors have always needed a place to work, especially back before electronic ticketing you would see them sorting the lifted tickets comparing to the printouts. But I don't remember them leaving anything on the table when they left to board passengers. I thought there was a place where employees could put a bag and coat. On Superliners, the Coach attendant has two seats designated for them. The SCA has room 1, the cafe and DC Crew have rooms in the Dorm. Th e Conductor has an office, but do see them sitting in the DC when not serving, especially late night. Seems like there is no reason for crew to take up revenue space. The DC does seem to allocate a booth for the LSA, a booth for staff meals and booths for supplies.by cutting out four booths, that reduces the seating by 16., but also Amtrak only uses a couple servers when on Superliners, I remember four.
 
If none of them were around I would be tempted to discretely take a picture of the table occupied by paperwork and send it with my complaint. I would not to take pictures of the any crew. Iirc that is a violation of the amtrak policy unless permission us granted.
No. Taking photos of crew in an area accessible by passengers in not a violation of Amtrak policy.

https://www.amtrak.com/photography-video-recording-policy
 
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If none of them were around I would be tempted to discretely take a picture of the table occupied by paperwork and send it with my complaint. I would not to take pictures of the any crew. Iirc that is a violation of the amtrak policy unless permission us granted.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
And their occupation of multiple tables is a violation of Amtrak policy. I'd suggest that (at the very least when the diner is closed) that anyone who sees crew occupying more than one table or just leaving their stuff on multiple tables, take a discrete photo and complain on amtrak.com with the photo in reserve in case more info is requested. I have seen crew members use the diner (which is OK by me) when t is closed (i.e. not open for seating) but to me it doesn't matter if the diner is not available to them so I will report all overuse of the tables in the cafe by crew.. SOME crew members have no regard for customers.
 
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