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Amtrak Train 91-CSX collision in SC (2/4/18)/Liability issues


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#41 Rover

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 12:45 PM

 

Sad news to hear. It reads as though the Amtrak train ran into the rear of the freight train?


Latest photos Ive seen seem to indicate it was head on..

.attachicon.gif634B7299-08E4-4D71-865F-9E94090DC3C4.jpeg

 

 
Even late this morning the National News gives little "facts" like "head on", and "one stationary, and the Amtrak moving"....
 

Looking at pictures and Google Maps, it looks like the CSX train was in the siding and somehow 91 ended up there too.

 
Once again the National News is clueless about train operations, "main line" vs "sidings."
 

CSX has a history of wire issues with there signals system.


Please explain "wire issues"....
 

I'm surprised to only see one P42. I thought all Amtrak LD except the Texas Eagle had two locos.


Not according to this Wiki article:

https://en.wikipedia..._(Amtrak_train)
 
-------------------------------------------
And, if I got it right.... The Trump Admin's Infrastructure Bill proposes take money away from Amtrak.


Edited by Rover, 04 February 2018 - 12:52 PM.

I've ridden: ~ The Empire Builder 1981 ~ The Coast Starlight 1981 ~ The Texas Eagle ~ The Sunset Limited ~
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#42 Ind Ben

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 12:49 PM

Is it possible the CSX engine was remote controlled?


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#43 Bierboy

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 12:56 PM

Updated 30 minutes ago (IDs of the two fatalities included) -- http://www.wistv.com...ion-in-cayce-sc


Edited by Bierboy, 04 February 2018 - 12:57 PM.

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#44 jis

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:04 PM

Is it possible the CSX engine was remote controlled?


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It was stationary on a yard track. How it was controlled would be relevant only if it was moving, which it was not.



#45 pennyk

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:08 PM

I'm surprised to only see one P42. I thought all Amtrak LD except the Texas Eagle had two locos.

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The Silver Star routinely runs with one engine these days.


Amtrak miles: 246,317; Routes: Silver Meteor, Champion, Silver Star, Auto Train, Capitol Limited, Empire Builder, Lakeshore Limited, Adirondack, Vermonter, Cardinal, California Zephyr, Coast Starlight, Texas Eagle, Missouri River Runner, Acela Express, Southwest Chief, Cascades, Crescent, City of New Orleans, Hiawatha Service, Maple Leaf, Keystone Service, NE Regional, Downeaster, Piedmont, Carolinian, Lincoln Service, Autumn Express 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, Empire Service, Sunset Limited, San Joaquin, Capitol Corridor, Pennsylvanian, Illinois Zephyr, Carl Sandburg, Ethan Allen Express, AEM-7 Excursion, Pacific Surfliner, Palmetto.  VIA miles: 4,584; Routes: The Canadian, Ocean; Alaska RR Denali Star: 356 miles


#46 jis

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:10 PM

Both the Silver Star and the Palmetto routinely operate with one loco. They are not long enough to require two locos. As a matter of cat, on occasions even the lake Shore Limited has been known to have operated with one loco.



#47 HP_Lovecraft

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:12 PM

 

 

And, if I got it right.... The Trump Admin's Infrastructure Bill proposes take money away from Amtrak.

 

Funding, according to the plan, will be dramatically increased with local, state, and private funds. Decreased at the federal level.

The idea being to more efficiently allocate funds, since many cities have long complained about funding infrastructure, despite having no rail service.. Ie Vegas, Arizona, Columbus, Nashville, etc. verses northeast corridor.

 

The idea is good, but I am 100% confident that its dead-on-arrival since DC is worthless, and incapable of doing simple tasks. Oh, we will get hearings, and committees about the issue. So they can brush off questions to say "answers will come at the end of the study" hoping people have forgotten by then.



#48 Dank

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:14 PM

This is happening far too frequently, and only gives ammunition to those who want to defund amtrak.

Perhaps they are correct! If we as a society are not willing to fund the RRs sufficiently (and I certainly include CSX et al. in this) at the bare minimum for safety maybe  it really is time to let US passenger rail go. There is such a tremendous backlog of deferred maintenance to make it work: just think tunnels bridges and catenary on the NEC - hundreds of billions of $$.
While it may seem unsafe to take the train considering all the bad press lately, even during this time period the odds of being killed in an Amtrak crash are still extremely low. According the my calculations, if the time period was limited to December 18th-February 4th the odds of a passenger being killed in an Amtrak wreck are about 1 in 1,389,583 (Annual ridership divided by (365/number of days in time period) divided by number of passenger deaths). News reports tend to focus much more on train wrecks than car wrecks, as one train accident tends to injure more people than a car wreck. However, trains are still a much safer mode of transportation than cars.

These few incidents in the past couple of months will not deter me from taking Amtrak in April. I will be taking the Crescent from Baltimore to NOLA and then the Sunset Limited on to Houston!

#49 PRR 60

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:19 PM

Let's keep politics out of this discussion.



#50 dlagrua

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:22 PM

Certainly a terrible tragedy. Deepest condolences to the families of the engineer and conductor who were lost. The question becomes who is responsible for the Silver Star being on the wrong track at the wrong time. Since CSX is in charge of dispatch it may very well be their fault.  Years back this yard would have had a switching tower manned 24/7 with one or two people doing the switching but today with cost savings and all, its all done at a remote location likely to be even in another state. .


Edited by dlagrua, 04 February 2018 - 01:31 PM.


#51 Rover

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:31 PM

From USA Today
 
“They weren’t supposed to be meeting like that, clearly," Gov. Henry McMaster said. "It appears that Amtrak was on the wrong track.” He said the CSX train seemed to be on the track it was supposed to be on.

The CSX train was parked on what appears to be a side track when the Amtrak train slammed into it at about 59 mph, McMaster said. Of the 139 people on the Amtrak train, 116 people were taken to hospitals, he said. Eight were Amtrak employees.

"Our information — and this is subject to correction — is that this was not the main (train) line," McMaster said. "This was a loading track for a sidetrack — where the collision took place."

He described the freight train engines as "all torn up," and the Amtrak engine as "barely recognizable" from the impact.

https://www.usatoday...sion/304692002/

south-carolina-train-crash-03-ap-jc-1802

http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=52826058

Edited by Rover, 04 February 2018 - 01:43 PM.

I've ridden: ~ The Empire Builder 1981 ~ The Coast Starlight 1981 ~ The Texas Eagle ~ The Sunset Limited ~
Books: ~ Time-Life - The Old West ~ The Railroaders * Rail Ventures - 4th Edition

 

I think it is absolute mythology that there's any national system that is profitable. And I think the naysayers just have to get over it. ~ Amtrak President Alex Kummant ~ June 2008

 


#52 jis

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:35 PM

According to reports, the area was operating under signal suspension with authority given by track warrants. This is apparently the reason that the Conductor was in the cab - to copy track warrants without having to stop the train to do so, which would be necessary if there was only a single Engineer in the cab.

 

So all those screaming about PTC should know that under signal suspension there would possibly have been no PTC active either.

 

And ironically, apparently the signal suspension was in place in order to cut in PTC compliant signals and place them in service.


Edited by jis, 04 February 2018 - 05:26 PM.


#53 Bob Dylan

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:41 PM

Doesn't the Card and the CONO run with only 1 P-42 also??
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#54 jis

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:41 PM



#55 Just-Thinking-51

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:43 PM

Please explain "wire issues"....


CSX had a brand of wire in use that was failing. They issue a recall and pull it out of use. Replacing the wire everywhere they found it. After another signal failure that was trace back to this wire they did another round of inspection looking for this one type of wire.

A wire failure is not in question now as the Amtrak train was operating in Dark Territory with no operating signal system.

So the focus goes to the switch now. What position should of been in? What position it was in, and if a difference why?

#56 niemi24s

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:43 PM

As near as I can determine, the collision occurred at about the center of this image:  https://www.google.c...3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1



#57 Just-Thinking-51

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:48 PM

Thank Jis for find that drone video. I thought that was two different cars in the bushes, but it one car split into two.

#58 lo2e

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:52 PM

There are two damaged cars from what I can see from drone footage. The first car behind #42 is buckled. A small crunch visible in the top skin. The one I think is the cafe car was several back and it SNAPPED in half, bending about itself.

 

And the P42 itself, which appears to have lost roughly a quarter or possibly even a third of its front end in the collision (looks like roughly the first 20 feet or so is detached/missing).  No way are they going to be able to repair it.

 

That cafe car that bent in half is absolutely shocking to me, because the front end of it as well as the rear end of it are either over the tracks or just off the tracks.  I'm thinking the abrupt stop of coaches and loco in front of it, combined with the force of the sleepers and baggage car behind it, pretty much exerted two opposite forces on it, forcing it to bend/break in half.  



#59 daybeers

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:55 PM

https://www.cbsnews....day-2018-02-04/

 

Lexington County Coroner Margaret Fisher said 54-year-old engineer Michael Kempf and 32-year-old conductor Michael Sella were killed in the collision.


Edited by daybeers, 04 February 2018 - 01:55 PM.

Amtrak travel so far: only 11,218 miles: Springfield Shuttle (13), Northeast Regional (28), Acela (1), Lake Shore Limited (2), Pennsylvanian (2), Capitol Limited (1)

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Other rail transit: WMATA (~900 miles), Metro-North, MTA, MBTA (Subway and Commuter Rail), Metra, CTA, RTA


#60 crescent2

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:56 PM

Let's keep politics out of this discussion.

 

THANK YOU.

 

 

Prayers for all those affected.  

Amtrak is having more than its fair share of troubles lately, although most seem at this point to not be of its own making.  Hopefully all the injured will make full recoveries.






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