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Amtrak Train 91-CSX collision in SC (2/4/18)/Liability issues


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#321 AGM.12

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Posted 07 April 2018 - 02:01 PM

With all of the liability issues out there, I wonder if CSX might use this accident as an excuse to tell Amtrak to move the Silver Star somewhere else or buy this line.



#322 Thirdrail7

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Posted 07 April 2018 - 09:21 PM

With all of the liability issues out there, I wonder if CSX might use this accident as an excuse to tell Amtrak to move the Silver Star somewhere else or buy this line.

 

 

That's just it. Unless Amtrak pushes it and a court proves "gross negligence,"  the only liability CSX will have is the repairs to their infrastructure and their credibility. I'm willing to bet when people think of this accident, CSX isn't the first thing that comes to mind.


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#323 PRR 60

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 09:21 AM

"Gross negligence" is a tough standard to prove. It has to essentially be a willful act.  The mistake was not only made, but the mistake was known as it was being made and, knowing that, there was still nothing done to correct it.  Basically, you have to prove sabotage.



#324 JRR

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 06:57 PM

“Willful and wanton” are good terms to describe conduct amounting to Gross Negligence.


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#325 neroden

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:58 PM

"Gross negligence" is a tough standard to prove. It has to essentially be a willful act.  The mistake was not only made, but the mistake was known as it was being made and, knowing that, there was still nothing done to correct it.  Basically, you have to prove sabotage.


Deliberately falsifying a federal safety form would qualify, IMO. Someone falsified that form.
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#326 Just-Thinking-51

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 06:40 PM

Yes but there are two crews involved. The crew that parked the train and the crew that was getting ready to leave.

Did the crew getting ready to leave open the switch not knowing the Sliver Star was running late? Of course you need Direct Instructions from the dispatcher. But a tired crew skipping a step is not impossible. Not sure a mistake of open the switch with out permissions is gross negligence on CSX part.
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#327 neroden

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 02:20 PM

The switch was locked in the wrong position. Someone sent in a form (presumably over radio) specifically saying it was locked in the right position. (Essentially, swearing that they had checked it and that it was correct.) Who signed that form? That's what I want to know.

Edited by neroden, 16 April 2018 - 02:21 PM.

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#328 zephyr17

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 04:30 PM

Would have had to been that CSX freight crew, wouldn't it?


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#329 JRR

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:06 PM

I’m sure the investigation will find the answers to these questions.


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#330 Thirdrail7

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:48 PM

The switch was locked in the wrong position. Someone sent in a form (presumably over radio) specifically saying it was locked in the right position. (Essentially, swearing that they had checked it and that it was correct.) Who signed that form? That's what I want to know.

 

Have the dispatchers been cleared of any wrongdoing and do we know that a new crew didn't open the switch without proper permission?


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#331 Seaboard92

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 05:37 PM

This was the first sleeper in the derailment. Operating as line No. 9110.


Attached File  ImageUploadedByAmtrak Forum1524609381.841362.jpg   194.49KB   45 downloads

Attached File  ImageUploadedByAmtrak Forum1524609394.622617.jpg   201.35KB   42 downloads
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Amtrak Routes I've riden: Silver Star(NYP-ORL), Silver Meteor(KIS-NYP),Carolinian(CLT-NWK), Palmetto (FLO-NYP), Acela(WAS-NYP), NE Regional(WBG-RVR), Pacific Surfliner(SAN-OSD), Piedmont(CLT-SAL), Crescent(NYP-CLT), Cardinal (WAS-CHI), Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS), Cascade (PDX-SEA)
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#332 Amtrak706

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 02:40 AM

Wow. You know the number/name?

#333 Seaboard92

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:55 AM

Wow. You know the number/name?

62012 If I remember correct Evening View.
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#334 Lonestar648

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:46 AM

Is Amtrak liable for replacing the CSX equipment (Lead engine) as well as the Amtrak equipment and passenger liabilities. 



#335 jis

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:53 AM

Is Amtrak liable for replacing the CSX equipment (Lead engine) as well as the Amtrak equipment and passenger liabilities. 

I thought each was responsible for dealing with their own damages, so all the damage to CSX equipment is CSX's problem. Maybe I think wrong.



#336 PRR 60

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:56 AM

Is Amtrak liable for replacing the CSX equipment (Lead engine) as well as the Amtrak equipment and passenger liabilities. 

 

No.  Any damage incurred by CSX is paid by CSX regardless of fault.


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#337 Lonestar648

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:02 AM

So the agreement is a true no fault agreement. 



#338 jis

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:04 AM

So the agreement is a true no fault agreement. 

That is my and apparently Prr's too, understanding.



#339 Thirdrail7

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 12:21 AM

Set your calendar. It's a twofer!

 

NTSB slates two-day hearing on fatal Amtrak crashes

 


 

The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) will hold an investigative hearing July 10-11 on two recent Amtrak crashes.

The public hearing will explore issues involved in the Amtrak Cascades derailment in DuPont, Washington, on Dec. 18, 2017; and an Amtrak collision with a freight train on Feb. 4 near Cayce, South Carolina, NTSB officials said in a press release.The hearing will include testimony from the Federal Railroad Administration; the International Association of Sheet Metal, Air, Rail and Transportation Workers; the Brotherhood of Locomotives Engineers and Trainmen; the Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen; CSX; Sound Transit; Amtrak; the Washington State Department of Transportation; and the Washington State Utilities and Transportation Commission.

The hearing will be held in Washington, D.C., and may be watched live via webcast.


They say laughter is the best medicine. Obviously they never posted on AU.


#340 CSXfoamer1997

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Posted 16 August 2018 - 09:21 PM

The moment of impact. If you've never seen anything like it before, it will send chills down your spine!

 






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