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Former Wisconsin Talgos Going to PNW


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#21 WoodyinNYC

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 10:18 AM

 

 

Its official the 2 Talgos are going to the PNW

Well now I've heard that they're going to the PNW, to Milwaukee, and to Beech Grove again.  Just need to hear that LOSSAN is taking them and I think we'll have covered all the options...

Well, there was talk about that a while back, as well as a rumor that Michigan was interested in them.

This is now a settled question.

 

On Railroad.net, bostontrainguy posted this info he found from the Federal Register online:

 

Amtrak plans to lease two articulated Series 8 trainsets from Tren Articulado Ligero Goicoechea Oriol (Talgo) to support its Cascade intercity service.


https://www.gpo.gov/... ... -01959.pdf



#22 PRR 60

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 10:52 AM

This is the split topic concerning the former Wisconsin Talgo trainsets heading for the Pacific Northwest. The original topic on the Cascades #501 derailment can be found HERE.



#23 WoodyinNYC

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 06:23 PM

Talgo must be very happy, going back where they are and will be appreciated. LOL. They've had a very good relationship with the Cascades for 20 years or so, but were treated shabbily by Scott Walker and the Koch Brothers. Hope Talgo doesn't take a loss on these trains after all the mess.



#24 neroden

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 03:18 PM

OK, neat little detail there: if Amtrak is *leasing* the trains from Talgo, Wisconsin gets *nothing*, because their deal was that they got a percentage of any *sale*, and a lease isn't a sale.


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#25 akbrian

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 03:23 PM

Are the existing PNW Cascades Talgo cars long term leases, or are they owned outright?



#26 neroden

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 03:25 PM

Purchases, I believe.


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#27 Tarm

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 04:41 PM

Wisconsin never paid for the Talgos, thanks to Scott Walker.  They're still owned by Talgo.  Talgo closed its Wisconsin operations completely, thanks to Scott Walker.  (Apparently they reopened in late 2016 to refurbish some LA Metro subway cars, though.)  In the settlement of Talgo's lawsuit against Scott Walker for breach of contract, it was agreed that Wisconsin could receive up to 30% of any payment for a successful sale of the trains, but not more than $9.75 million (and there may also have been a time limit on that). Wisconsin receives 30% of a net amount *after* Talgo's costs of storage and marketing are subtracted, so I'm guessing they won't be getting much if anything (Talgo has been marketing the cars for years and storing them for years).

 

I don't know whether Amtrak or the states of Washington/Oregon are purchasing the Talgos -- I'm going to guess Amtrak is doing so to compensate Washington and Oregon for the losses caused by the crashes.  I'm pretty sure they're not paying list price.

To this day I can not understand why people on this board give a free pass to WI Gov Doyle. He had the money and the opportunity to contract and fund both the Madison train and the Talgo trainsets. He chose to defer the options to Walker who killed it. I'm getting tired of this selective outrage.



#28 neroden

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 12:30 AM

First of all, the Talgo trainsets *were* contracted and Walker actually *broke* the contract.  It is perhaps understandable that Doyle did not expect Walker to be a contract-breaker.

 

Second, Doyle quit politics and is widely forgotten.  His dithering was a problem, but really being annoyed about it isn't going to do anything now.  That cretin Scott Walker is still Governor of Wisconsin and is still trashing the state.

 

Does that answer your question?


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#29 Tarm

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:02 AM

I'm glad that the Talgo trainsets were constructed and I'm glad that they will finally be put to use. As a resident of the State of Wisconsin I'm sad that they will not be used here. As a passenger rail enthusiast I will continue to promote passenger rail among my fellow citizens and support elected officials that further those goals. In the give and take of a democratic system you win some and you lose some.



#30 grover5995

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 05:26 PM

I'm glad that the Talgo trainsets were constructed and I'm glad that they will finally be put to use. As a resident of the State of Wisconsin I'm sad that they will not be used here. As a passenger rail enthusiast I will continue to promote passenger rail among my fellow citizens and support elected officials that further those goals. In the give and take of a democratic system you win some and you lose some.

When Hiawatha Corridor service is upgraded, perhaps a couple trips could continue beyond Milwaukee to Madison plus an additional train to Minneapolis.  If WI does not want to be in the passenger train business, maybe it is time to consider a private operator like Virgin Rail.    


Edited by grover5995, 04 February 2018 - 05:27 PM.


#31 jis

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 05:32 PM

 

I'm glad that the Talgo trainsets were constructed and I'm glad that they will finally be put to use. As a resident of the State of Wisconsin I'm sad that they will not be used here. As a passenger rail enthusiast I will continue to promote passenger rail among my fellow citizens and support elected officials that further those goals. In the give and take of a democratic system you win some and you lose some.

When Hiawatha Corridor service is upgraded, perhaps a couple trips could continue beyond Milwaukee to Madison plus an additional train to Minneapolis.  If WI does not want to be in the passenger train business, maybe it is time to consider a private operator like Virgin Rail.    

 

And if Wisconsin is not going to fund the operation, why on earth would Virgin Rail want to sink their money into it. The typical level of ticket prices that one can get in the Midwest is nowhere near anything that would fully support an operation, so someone will have to make up the difference plus a profit margin to interest a prudent business operation like Virgin Rail, as the British do in the UK.



#32 Anderson

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 05:35 PM

First of all, the Talgo trainsets *were* contracted and Walker actually *broke* the contract.  It is perhaps understandable that Doyle did not expect Walker to be a contract-breaker.

 

Second, Doyle quit politics and is widely forgotten.  His dithering was a problem, but really being annoyed about it isn't going to do anything now.  That cretin Scott Walker is still Governor of Wisconsin and is still trashing the state.

 

Does that answer your question?

Let's add Obama waiting until October with the money to try and use it as an "election bribe" for the voters in those states.  If the grants had been made in June, there's a pretty good chance (IMHO at least) that things would have been far enough along to avoid this.  Doyle at least had the defense that he was deferring to the will of the voters (since Walker had made a big stink about this).  The 3Cs and Florida didn't have this excuse, however...

 

And the problem is ultimately that Amtrak has the rights to run operations which a third party doesn't.  Just ask Iowa Pacific (or WashDot, for that matter).


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#33 cirdan

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 05:19 AM

 

Its official the 2 Talgos are going to the PNW

Well now I've heard that they're going to the PNW, to Milwaukee, and to Beech Grove again.  Just need to hear that LOSSAN is taking them and I think we'll have covered all the options...

 

 

Strange isn't it, how the pendulum swings between nobody wants them and everybody wants them.



#34 jmx153

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 10:24 PM

Are the existing PNW Cascades Talgo cars long term leases, or are they owned outright?

Not sure who owns the older series 7 trainsets, but I read somewhere that the 2 new series 8 trainsets are owned by ODOT (Oregon Department of Transportation)  I think I also read that there was some sort of discount because ODOT partnered with Wisconsin at the time the deal was made with Talgo.



#35 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 10:36 PM

To this day I can not understand why people on this board give a free pass to WI Gov Doyle. He had the money and the opportunity to contract and fund both the Madison train and the Talgo trainsets. He chose to defer the options to Walker who killed it. I'm getting tired of this selective outrage.


I'll see your selective outrage, and raise you a false equivalency? :blink:


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#36 Triley

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 01:58 AM

Was looking at some pics posted by the Talgo tech riding with the equipment.

Can't want to have the at least the first set back in service! We're also hoping to have the Jefferson set back in service within the next few months as well

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#37 Blackwolf

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 11:51 AM

Was looking at some pics posted by the Talgo tech riding with the equipment.

Can't want to have the at least the first set back in service! We're also hoping to have the Jefferson set back in service within the next few months as well

Sent from my SM-G955U using Amtrak Forum mobile app

What was the final estimate of damage to Mt. Jefferson?


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#38 Triley

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 12:07 PM

Was looking at some pics posted by the Talgo tech riding with the equipment.

Can't want to have the at least the first set back in service! We're also hoping to have the Jefferson set back in service within the next few months as well

Sent from my SM-G955U using Amtrak Forum mobile app

What was the final estimate of damage to Mt. Jefferson?
No idea. Way beyond my pay grade!

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#39 Blackwolf

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 12:16 PM

 

 

Was looking at some pics posted by the Talgo tech riding with the equipment.

Can't want to have the at least the first set back in service! We're also hoping to have the Jefferson set back in service within the next few months as well

Sent from my SM-G955U using Amtrak Forum mobile app

What was the final estimate of damage to Mt. Jefferson?
No idea. Way beyond my pay grade!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Amtrak Forum mobile app

 

Hahaha!


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VIA Rail
Ocean (x4); Windsor Corridor (x2); The Canadian (x1)


#40 Dutchrailnut

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 05:04 PM

So the Talgo is on its way back from TTC to Chicago and on to Beech grove for storage .

https://www.trainord...d.php?4,4485695






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