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If you could add any amenities to Amtrak, what would they be?


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#41 Green Maned Lion

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 02:02 PM

It would also reduce capacity. And frankly, I am not sure what it would benefit. Perhaps in business class they could allow you the indulgence of buying an empty seat, something they do not let you do in coach. What they really need to do is develop a business class concept that offers more than an actually reserved seat, a curtain, and a warm soda.


Travelled: Broadway Limited (1), Lake Shore Limited (6), Capitol Limited (7), Empire Builder (1), Southwest Chief (2), Sunset Limited (1), California Zephyr (3), Coast Starlight (2), Silver Meteor (5), Silver Star (5), Silver Palm (2), Crescent (1), Cardinal (4), Auto Train (4), Pennsylvanian (2), Palmetto (1), Acela Express (1), Empire Service (1), Northeast Regional (11), Keystone Service (1) --- Total Miles: 50,144 --- Total Trains: 61
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#42 Blackwolf

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 02:26 PM

Dedicated 2-1 Business Class seating standard system-wide; Current LD seating pitch. As a minimum.  Standardize the whole hard product so it is the same no matter if you're riding the Coast Starlight, the Cardinal, a Surfliner or any other train with BC.

 

Ideally, the hard product for Long Distance BC would incorporate a lie-flat pod.

 

Update and make more comfortable the Sleeper accommodations.  Definitely gain better mattresses, improved sheets and more plush/heavier blankets.  And better/thicker pillows.

 

But as has been stated before, CLEAN THE DARN TRAINS BETTER.  Do more complete deep-cleaning of passenger spaces, and if things like carpeting are beyond help, strip and replace with new.

 

 

 

 

I'm ready to receive the throwing of produce my way now. :)


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#43 west point

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 11:37 PM

Good point about making coaches BC reducing capacity instead ----

You could fill the CAF options with BC only cars and add one to each single level car train.  That way capacity is actually increased. 



#44 Anderson

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 10:27 AM

I'm a fan of standardizing BC (you'd probably have two slight variants on the product for single-level and bi-level BC), though I'd have it as two products (one for overnight/LD trains and another for daylight/corridor trains).  Some minor variations aside, Amtrak really should make a reasonably standard BC product a "take it or leave it" proposition and have some other label for non-standard products ("Custom Class" or "Parlor Car Service" come to mind).

The other thing I would like to see, setting the above aside, is some sort of "better than Business Class" service on the VA Regionals.  The main reason in this case is that (1) something like 25% of the revenue from VA's trains is from BC pax; and (2) you've got a not-insignificant number of pax traveling from, say, RVR or Hampton Roads up towards New York, and the needs of a two hour trip are really not the same as an eight-hour trip.


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#45 west point

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 11:06 AM

A question that needs answering is -----  Does Amtrak make BC on single level trains = BC in Acela-1s ?  Sine all Acelas is either BC or first class the big question might be will Amtrak BC be 2& 1  or 2 & 2 ?



#46 Green Maned Lion

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 11:18 AM

I personally never liked the branding of Acelas basic service level as Business Class. I would market something like Regional Coach (current coach service), Regional Business (2-1 seating, free soft drinks), Acela (current Acela BC), and Acela First (same as it is now). If they could get the slots, Id also buy but some commuter style equipment and run a third lower class of service that was unreserved, no food service, and ran more locally- call it Corridor Economy or something. I think it would bring in some of the bus business without really compromising the other services.
Travelled: Broadway Limited (1), Lake Shore Limited (6), Capitol Limited (7), Empire Builder (1), Southwest Chief (2), Sunset Limited (1), California Zephyr (3), Coast Starlight (2), Silver Meteor (5), Silver Star (5), Silver Palm (2), Crescent (1), Cardinal (4), Auto Train (4), Pennsylvanian (2), Palmetto (1), Acela Express (1), Empire Service (1), Northeast Regional (11), Keystone Service (1) --- Total Miles: 50,144 --- Total Trains: 61
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#47 Anderson

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 12:29 PM

I personally never liked the branding of Acelas basic service level as Business Class. I would market something like Regional Coach (current coach service), Regional Business (2-1 seating, free soft drinks), Acela (current Acela BC), and Acela First (same as it is now). If they could get the slots, Id also buy but some commuter style equipment and run a third lower class of service that was unreserved, no food service, and ran more locally- call it Corridor Economy or something. I think it would bring in some of the bus business without really compromising the other services.

I would probably retain food service if they were running a long-haul commuter-type train, but mainly because I suspect that said food service would make money (as F&B apparently does on the Regionals as-is).  I might not have a cafe area, but a "standing buffet" (in UK terms) could probably justify itself on a WAS-NYP run, particularly if Amtrak were willing to load on a modest number of additional stops (e.g. Hamilton, NJ) while holding to a travel time in the four-hour range (I'd want to keep the travel time under that level, but anything in the 3:30-4:00 range should work for marketing/convenience purposes).

 

TBH what I would probably be inclined to do with such a train (presuming it could pass ADA muster) would be to have a single "Cafe/Accessible" car with a decent number of accessible seats (you could probably fit a few dozen), have two cars abutting it with similar seats, and have the rest of the cars be non-ADA bilevels.  If you've got ten Wheelchair slots in one car and two more in each of the neighboring cars (plus some other non-stair but non-wheelchair seats in the single-level car), that's about as many as you have on an existing Regional.  A ten-car train with this configuration (presume that 9 of the cars are NJT-style bilevels plus the one oddball) would have a capacity sitting somewhere just over 1200.  If you could remove the extended single-level portion from 7 of the cars you might be able to slip in an extra 8 seats per car (so 56 seats overall), for a total capacity in the mid-1200s.


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#48 jis

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 12:50 PM

Just be aware though that to actually provide 100 seat capacity in the NJT style multilevels one will have to severely curtail baggage space. The situation on NJT MLV trains carrying airline passengers between EWR and NYP is not a pretty site at all, and would be a significant hazard should one of these catch fire or derail.



#49 Anderson

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 01:12 PM

Just be aware though that to actually provide 100 seat capacity in the NJT style multilevels one will have to severely curtail baggage space. The situation on NJT MLV trains carrying airline passengers between EWR and NYP is not a pretty site at all, and would be a significant hazard should one of these catch fire or derail.

Depending on what you're looking at for the service (e.g. what role it is to play), I think dropping to one carry-on/one personal item would be a reasonable change for that service.  FWIW, how would this compare with bus services' allowances?


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#50 jis

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 01:46 PM

How does one enforce such a thing at say, NY Penn Station? And where are the hundred people going to put their one carry on item in the MLV cars, unless you furnish them like the Atlantic City MLVs were, in which case you don;t get to 100 seats, since a lot of space is taken up by luggage racks.

 

Bus service has ample luggage hold under floor with curbside checkin/cjeckout. MLVs don't, and I doubt Amtrak will get seriously into checked baggage business on Commuter-like trains.



#51 Bob Dylan

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 04:13 PM

I'd suggest that the Name "Metroliner" be taken out of mothballs and used on the new Acela II when they arrive.

Also changing Business Class to Club Class or Parlor Service,at least on the NEC, wouldn't be a bad Marketing idea as long as the amenities and service were such that the Name fit!
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#52 Maglev

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 04:41 PM

I'd suggest that the Name "Metroliner" be taken out of mothballs and used on the new Acela II when they arrive.

Hooray for this!

 

The name "Acela" vaguely sounds like a part of the body I can't mention here.  Or maybe the part of a house where you find a furnace?  In any case, it is a nonsense word that never should have been taken as a name for our nation's premier trains.  But then, come to think of it, the trainsets themselves are nothing great...  It would be fitting for new trainsets to have a revived name. 


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#53 Anderson

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 04:53 PM

 

I'd suggest that the Name "Metroliner" be taken out of mothballs and used on the new Acela II when they arrive.

Hooray for this!

 

The name "Acela" vaguely sounds like a part of the body I can't mention here.  Or maybe the part of a house where you find a furnace?  In any case, it is a nonsense word that never should have been taken as a name for our nation's premier trains.  But then, come to think of it, the trainsets themselves are nothing great...  It would be fitting for new trainsets to have a revived name. 

 

If "Acela" sounds like it, "Avelia" does even moreso (it sounds like part of either the lungs or like it should be part of some other bodily system).  If Amtrak doesn't shake out a decent new name or bring back a solid older one (e.g. Metroliner) then I'll just be sticking to Acela IIs and I think a lot of folks will as well.


Capitol Limited (7), CA Zephyr (4) Lake Shore Limited (1), Acela (2), NE Regional (2), Sliver Meteor (4)

Upcoming: Silver Meteor (1), Lake Shore Limited (1), SW Chief (2), MO River Runner (1), Texas Eagle (1)

Possibly Upcoming: Either Texas Eagle (1), Capitol Limited (1), Silver Meteor (2) or Texas Eagle (1), Capitol Limited (1), Silver Meteor (1)

#54 A Voice

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 06:54 PM

 

 

I'd suggest that the Name "Metroliner" be taken out of mothballs and used on the new Acela II when they arrive.

Hooray for this!

 

The name "Acela" vaguely sounds like a part of the body I can't mention here.  Or maybe the part of a house where you find a furnace?  In any case, it is a nonsense word that never should have been taken as a name for our nation's premier trains.  But then, come to think of it, the trainsets themselves are nothing great...  It would be fitting for new trainsets to have a revived name. 

 

If "Acela" sounds like it, "Avelia" does even moreso (it sounds like part of either the lungs or like it should be part of some other bodily system).  If Amtrak doesn't shake out a decent new name or bring back a solid older one (e.g. Metroliner) then I'll just be sticking to Acela IIs and I think a lot of folks will as well.

 

 

Acela (acceleration + excellence) did have its origins as a "nonsense" word, but since has become a respected and recognized brand in the Northeast (the "Acela" corridor phrase has been used even outside transportation circles); It would be foolish to drop it for a product line (Metroliner) with far less public recognition and generally remembered (if at all) as lacking the status and service standards of Acela.  For a train which has been very much a mechanical abomination, it has resonated with the public.  

 

Indeed, the name "Amtrak" is also a nonsense term; Should we also advocate to resurrect Railpax?  


Edited by A Voice, 25 December 2017 - 06:55 PM.


#55 jebr

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 09:55 PM

Back on the "economy basic" service:

 

I think the idea of having a separate fleet of cars just for a cheaper economy product is terrible unless you're going to start having that service everywhere. The idea of having to procure new separate cars, keep a separate stock/extras/etc. just for one service seems like a lot of capital expense for what's supposed to be an economy product. The money might not be there to make sense to have it.

 

Amtrak would be better off finding ways to sell NER seats with restrictions to try and grab the bus market, in my opinion, at least when there's lots of open seats. Even when adding frequencies or stops, I'd rather have that service have full amenities and offer more expensive seats for those that will pay than to try and restrict revenue on an economy-style train car. Better to add restrictions to it that make the ticket less desirable to business passengers and reduce expenses for Amtrak rather than try to offer yet another product on the NEC.

 

As ideas on what an economy basic fare could have for restrictions:

  • Online only availability - it would not be sold in person or through phone agents.
  • No checked baggage allowed. Alternatively, allow checked baggage but only for a fee (maybe in the $20-$30 range per bag.)
  • No agent interaction "for free" at the station - tickets must be printed online, shown through a phone, or printed at a kiosk. Tickets printed by an agent would be subject to a fee (perhaps waived if all QuikTrip machines are down.)
  • No refunds or exchanges allowed, much like the SmartFares.
  • No upgrades or companion fares allowed.
  • 50% AGR points earned.

The idea is that the product is a tradeoff - in exchange for a deeply discounted fare you're using only self-service options (or fees if you wish to use options with agent assistance,) removing your ability to further discount/upgrade the fare, limiting points earning ability, and essentially guaranteeing revenue for that specific train. These restrictions may seem somewhat draconian, but for a decent discount it would offer an option to compete with the bus lines for the budget traveler (many of who don't expect to be able to refund/exchange tickets and are willing to go self-service already) while hopefully making the fare restrictive enough that people who are paying higher fares today won't generally switch to the cheaper option.



#56 Anderson

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 02:09 AM

Ah, yes, StupidSeats [1]...

 

I'd allow the use of the station agent, if only because (as hinted) sometimes the QT machines either go down or don't "play nice" (e.g. I find myself unable to search via my AGR number) and because in a lot of cases there's not much being saved.  There's also the fact that at a number of smaller stations, the attitude is "let the conductor figure out if you're properly ticketed", so you'd almost invariably get situations where someone would board expecting to just pull their ticket up on their [insert device here] following boarding and get a rather rude awakening at a more "controlled" station.  I also think that trying to collect a $5-10 fee at the counter is going to cause a problem when things do go haywire with other options.

I'd be tempted to allow phone bookings as well, if just because the website is not famous for its reliability (leading to far too many cases where folks could legitimately claim the website is down), though web-only status was slapped onto Student Advantage sometime back.  Unfortunately for Student Advantage, this was at the same time as the discount dropped to 10% and it was made not applicable to non-coach fares, so there quickly became no reason not to just use AAA (or NARP as the case might be) instead and any practical "nudge" probably died a quick-and-painless death as a result along with the use of that discount.  Hard-barring station purchases doesn't seem to be an issue for an advance purchase, however.

The other options, though, I like.  I'd allow checked baggage for a fee (I see no compelling reason to pass up this as a possible revenue stream).

 

 

[1] This was the name which I started using for the then-branded "SmartSeats" back when Amtrak.com wasn't set up to offer the three fare categories like it is now...so I was always wary of booking an advance fare lest there be hidden T&C.  This actually gave me something of an allergy to advance booking, period, since I was worried about getting slapped somehow when I'd wind up rebooking because the website had decided to jam me with a restricted fare...and it sure didn't help my reticence to book coach, either, for similar reasons.


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#57 jebr

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 03:34 PM

Yeah, with the agent you'd probably need an override just-in-case, although the instances where it'd truly matter would be quite small (staffed station where the person doesn't have a mobile device that can pull up the PDF or Amtrak app with the ticket and all QuikTrak machines are down.) I would at least make it stated policy to dissuade people from doing so, while internally allowing agents to override it as needed. Simply stating that a charge would apply would likely dissuade people from unnecessarily going to an agent to have a ticket printed.

 

As for booking over a phone: while the website occasionally has issues, I haven't heard of outages longer than a day or two for the website, and even extended outages are few and far between. Considering such a fare would likely only be available far in advance (two weeks would be my personal though, just like Saver fares) I wouldn't see the need to have it available via phone on the off chance there's outages and it's in the exact two week window where the fare may not be there tomorrow.

 

While neither of these are, on an individual interaction, particularly costly, in the aggregate it adds up. The more people use self-service the fewer phone agents and station agents have to be replaced or hired to handle demand. The terms also need to be restrictive enough to prevent too many people that already travel Amtrak and are willing to pay the higher price from buying down to a lower fare. The restrictions also generally match restrictions on low-cost bus lines or ULCCs, the market that such a product would be aimed at.



#58 MARC Rider

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 05:40 PM

On trains where the Business Class seating is essentially the same as coach, I think there should be a guarantee of two seats per passenger in Business Class.  

 

The only trains that meet that definition are the Pennsylvanian and the Palmetto.   (I'm not sure about the Coast Starlight or the Crescent.)  

And not all the coach cars on the Pennsylvanian are Amfleet IIs, as I found out one time, having to ride an Amfleet I when I didn't expect to. I've always taken business class on the Palmetto, despite of the Amfleet IIs in coach because Business class is less crowded, which is also why I take it sometimes when I ride the Northeast Regionals. 



#59 MARC Rider

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 05:43 PM

I would add dining car service to the Pennsylvanian, the Palmetto, the Vermonter, the Adirondack, and maybe the Lynchburgers.

(Hey, this is fantasyland, right?)



#60 Anderson

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 12:09 AM

Yeah, with the agent you'd probably need an override just-in-case, although the instances where it'd truly matter would be quite small (staffed station where the person doesn't have a mobile device that can pull up the PDF or Amtrak app with the ticket and all QuikTrak machines are down.) I would at least make it stated policy to dissuade people from doing so, while internally allowing agents to override it as needed. Simply stating that a charge would apply would likely dissuade people from unnecessarily going to an agent to have a ticket printed.

 

As for booking over a phone: while the website occasionally has issues, I haven't heard of outages longer than a day or two for the website, and even extended outages are few and far between. Considering such a fare would likely only be available far in advance (two weeks would be my personal though, just like Saver fares) I wouldn't see the need to have it available via phone on the off chance there's outages and it's in the exact two week window where the fare may not be there tomorrow.

 

While neither of these are, on an individual interaction, particularly costly, in the aggregate it adds up. The more people use self-service the fewer phone agents and station agents have to be replaced or hired to handle demand. The terms also need to be restrictive enough to prevent too many people that already travel Amtrak and are willing to pay the higher price from buying down to a lower fare. The restrictions also generally match restrictions on low-cost bus lines or ULCCs, the market that such a product would be aimed at.

If the website is down intermittently (which has occasionally been the case for a few days), there's a risk of space selling out.  In a sense, I've got a problem with "This fare is available...but only when the website decides it wants to let you have it" situations.  Remember, not all seats tend to be eligible for the fare.

Probably a compromise would be to have the fare nominally be "web-only" but have instructions that if someone calls in claiming web issues, the agents can override to get it, particularly if you're close in to the window.  NB a number of airlines have rules wherein if X cannot be done due to an IT problem/limitation you can call in and the charges are waived.

(Mind you, the change/cancel restriction is enough to get me to walk the other way already...but I also miss the days before e-ticketing when you could just pull a refund if you hadn't printed the tickets.)


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