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#21 cpotisch

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 12:57 PM

 

I wouldn't consider a one seat ride over 2000 miles (or two nights) to be reasonable.  Now a one roomette ride, sure.

 

The TE between CHI and LAX is close to three days long. I personally would never travel between the two cities on the TE when the SWC exists although I know people at AU have said they have and insist that the TE should exist for that purpose. Now would anyone here would ride the whole way in a coach seat I don't know. But the idea that a three day train is a deal breaker is a crock when the CHI-LAX TE exists. You can say equipment isn't available for a NYC-SF train but don't tell me no one would ride a train for three days in a row without getting off.  

 

The TE/Sunset doesn't just exist and people aren't taking it just because it's a three night ride from LA to Chicago. And I don't think anyone in AU has said it 'should exist just for that purpose'. But many people (like me) like the change in scenery and want a route that goes through the south. Nobody is taking an LD train to save time. They either do it because they have to (maybe flying or driving wasn't an option), or because they like to spend time on a train. For you, Amtrak is just how you get from point A to point B. But that's not how it is for everyone. In fact, here were plenty of coach passengers when I was taking #422 that were going the whole way (or almost the whole way) so clearly they must have had some reason not to take the Chief.

 

And while an SF-NYC train could also be three nights, it would be at least 20 hours longer, and would require significantly more equipment and operating costs. So it's not just that a coast-to-coast train would be three nights ('cause it probably would be four in practice), it's that it would be the longest route in North America, and the most difficult to operate, and with some of the least demand. That's why.


Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service

 

Wish List: Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome, Downeaster

 


#22 railbuck

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 01:46 PM

 

I wouldn't consider a one seat ride over 2000 miles (or two nights) to be reasonable.  Now a one roomette ride, sure.

 

The TE between CHI and LAX is close to three days long. I personally would never travel between the two cities on the TE when the SWC exists although I know people at AU have said they have and insist that the TE should exist for that purpose. Now would anyone here would ride the whole way in a coach seat I don't know. But the idea that a three day train is a deal breaker is a crock when the CHI-LAX TE exists. You can say equipment isn't available for a NYC-SF train but don't tell me no one would ride a train for three days in a row without getting off.  

 

 

The endpoint fallacy again.  TE doesn't really exist for CHI-LAX, though a few might ride the whole route.  It exists for city pairs like CHI-ELP and FTW-LAX and LRK-TUS.  Similarly, the number of people who would ride NYP-EMY would be extremely small.  The advantage of such a train would be for passengers much closer to CHI who would not have to change trains there.  For that purpose, something like CLE-DEN works just as well (except for minor details such as how and where to turn and service the train).  EKH-MTP would likely be quite popular with the Amish, for example.  Someone traversing the entire continent would still have to transfer somewhere, but could do so at a variety of stations, not just CHI.



#23 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 02:11 PM

 

Someone traversing the entire continent would still have to transfer somewhere, but could do so at a variety of stations, not just CHI.

 

 

Certainly if that was an option LD coast to coast travel would be improved. I can speak from experience last year with my LSL nightmare. Chicago can easily be affected by weather as can the entire LSL route. The only same day transfer point from east to west now is CHI (NOL is possible but it requires an overnight stay from either the Crescent or CONO to the SL and the SL only runs 3x/week). 

 

Certainly the network needs to be expanded but to do so requires more equipment. This is why I so want to get rid of routes I don't find useful, it frees up equipment for routes I would want.


Trains Traveled: Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA), Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI), Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS), Lake Shore Limited (NYP-CHI), , Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL), Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX), California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY), City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL), Texas Eagle (CHI-DAL)
Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
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#24 Bob Dylan

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 08:51 PM

I enjoyed the four day trip from Jasper to Toronto on the VIS Canadian last year and would ride a NYP to SF train if it existed but never will.


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#25 cpotisch

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 09:12 PM

 

Someone traversing the entire continent would still have to transfer somewhere, but could do so at a variety of stations, not just CHI.
 
 
Certainly if that was an option LD coast to coast travel would be improved. I can speak from experience last year with my LSL nightmare. Chicago can easily be affected by weather as can the entire LSL route. The only same day transfer point from east to west now is CHI (NOL is possible but it requires an overnight stay from either the Crescent or CONO to the SL and the SL only runs 3x/week). 
 
Certainly the network needs to be expanded but to do so requires more equipment. This is why I so want to get rid of routes I don't find useful, it frees up equipment for routes I would want.
I think what you’re saying here sort of discredits your whole point that Amtrak needs a coast to coast train. New/more equipment is definitely needed, and should a large portion of any new equipment acquired be used just to offer a one seat ride coast to coast? Or wouldn’t it make more sense to use new equipment to expand the Amtrak route map? to allow some people to take any ride at all.

That’s a huge flaw with the introduction of a coast to coast train. It would prioritize a minor convenience for a few passengers already served, above a necessity for people who aren’t.

Edited by cpotisch, 17 March 2018 - 09:14 PM.

Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service

 

Wish List: Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome, Downeaster

 


#26 brianpmcdonnell17

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 12:17 AM

 

Someone traversing the entire continent would still have to transfer somewhere, but could do so at a variety of stations, not just CHI.
 
 
Certainly if that was an option LD coast to coast travel would be improved. I can speak from experience last year with my LSL nightmare. Chicago can easily be affected by weather as can the entire LSL route. The only same day transfer point from east to west now is CHI (NOL is possible but it requires an overnight stay from either the Crescent or CONO to the SL and the SL only runs 3x/week). 
 
Certainly the network needs to be expanded but to do so requires more equipment. This is why I so want to get rid of routes I don't find useful, it frees up equipment for routes I would want.
I think what youre saying here sort of discredits your whole point that Amtrak needs a coast to coast train. New/more equipment is definitely needed, and should a large portion of any new equipment acquired be used just to offer a one seat ride coast to coast? Or wouldnt it make more sense to use new equipment to expand the Amtrak route map? to allow some people to take any ride at all.

Thats a huge flaw with the introduction of a coast to coast train. It would prioritize a minor convenience for a few passengers already served, above a necessity for people who arent.
There are other issues with such a cross-country train such as on-time performance, but more mileage can usually be covered by long routes when compared to short ones, as less time is spent in the yard. For example, a Piedmont set typically makes one round trip per day, for a total of only 346 miles. Meanwhile, a California Zephyr set requires six days for a full 4,896 mile rotation from Chicago to Emeryville and back. This is the equivalent of 816 miles per day, which is more than twice that of the Piedmont set.

Edited by brianpmcdonnell17, 18 March 2018 - 12:19 AM.

<p>Routes Travelled: CL WAS-CHI, Card. CHI-WAS, Caro. CLT-RGH, CS SEA-LAX, CZ CHI-RIC, Cre. BAL-ATL, EB SEA-CHI, ES NYG/NYP-NFL, LSL BOS/NYP-CHI, ML ALB-NYP, NER FBG-RVR+WAS-BOS, PS LAX-ANA, Pen. NYP-PGH, Pie. RGH-CLT, SM ORL-NYP, SS FTL-NYP

#27 railiner

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 02:32 AM

I'll repeat what I stated in an earlier thread....

 

Just because a train is supposed to be a "thru train"....doesn't always guarantee it will be....

If a transcontinental train from California to New York via Chicago, suffered a long enough delay, they would likely annul it at Chicago, re-accommodate any thru passenger's, and "set-in" an on time make-up train from Chicago to New York.

 

Like they sometimes do with delayed trains from the South at Washington....


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#28 west point

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 12:28 PM

Suspect that once Piedmonts get to 5 round trips that some sets may make 1-1/2 or 2 round trips a day with one set in reserve ?



#29 cpotisch

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 03:40 PM

So yeah, just because something is physically possible doesn’t mean that it is necessary or worth existing at all. Is a SF-NYC train physically possible? Probably yes. But that doesn’t mean it should exist.


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Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service

 

Wish List: Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome, Downeaster

 


#30 Palmetto

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 07:21 AM

Let's not forget that there was, at one time, a transcontinental sleeper.  Ran on the Sunset Limited and the Southern Crescent [the Southern RR still had not joined Amtrak].  It overnighted in New Orleans.  I took it from San Antonio to Penn Station.



#31 cpotisch

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 08:53 AM

Let's not forget that there was, at one time, a transcontinental sleeper.  Ran on the Sunset Limited and the Southern Crescent [the Southern RR still had not joined Amtrak].  It overnighted in New Orleans.  I took it from San Antonio to Penn Station.

Right, but that's different from running an ENTIRE TRAIN New York to San Francisco. Having one through-car for sleeper passengers going coast-to-coast is relatively easy to justify. My point was that the question "Is it possible for a Superliner car to travel...to New York City? If so why is there no direct train from SF to NYC?" misses the fact that such a route likely wouldn't be justifiable, even if it were physically possible.


Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service

 

Wish List: Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome, Downeaster

 


#32 Bob Dylan

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 10:45 AM

Superliners can't run to NYP,so the answer is No!

I'm not positive, but at one time wasn't there also a thru Sleeper from Baltimore that ran via St.Louis on the B&O ( National Ltd.) and continued on to the West Coast?
"There's Something About a Train! It's Magic!"-- 1970s Amtrak Ad
 "..My heart is warm with the friends I make,and better friends I'll not be knowing,
Yet there isn't a train I wouldn't take,No matter where its going!.." -Edna St. Vincent Millay

#33 cpotisch

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 11:05 AM

Superliners can't run to NYP,so the answer is No!

I'm not positive, but at one time wasn't there also a thru Sleeper from Baltimore that ran via St.Louis on the B&O ( National Ltd.) and continued on to the West Coast?

Right, so they would have to use single-level cars, meaning worse views (no SSL) and longer consists. Not great.


Routes Traveled: Silver Meteor, Silver Star, CrescentLake Shore LimitedCalifornia Zephyr, Sunset Limited, Texas EagleEthan Allen Express, Empire Service, Maple Leaf, AdirondackAcela Express, Northeast RegionalKeystone Service

 

Wish List: Cardinal, CONO, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, Crescent (overnight), Adirondack w/ Great Dome, Downeaster

 


#34 Lonestar648

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 09:17 PM

Overall, I see no benefit to the daily operation of Amtrak to have such a train.  As stated above, serving additional new markets would definitely increase the passenger load and revenue verses a train duplicating an existing route unless continually sold out.



#35 railiner

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Posted 10 April 2018 - 01:58 AM

I'm not positive, but at one time wasn't there also a thru Sleeper from Baltimore that ran via St.Louis on the B&O ( National Ltd.) and continued on to the West Coast?

There was...

And in the early Amtrak era, besides the tri-weekly New York- Los Angeles thru sleeper via the Southern Crescent-Sunset Limited New Orleans connection (overnite), there was also a daily New York - Los Angeles thru sleeper via the National Limited - Southwest Chief Kansas City connection.

The B&O, NYC, and PRR all ran thru sleepers with Western railroads to various destinations during the 1950s.

Edited by railiner, 10 April 2018 - 02:00 AM.

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