Cuts to Trails & Rails

I read last night in another post on here (the one about certain discounts not being accepted) -- major changes to Trails & Rails coming for 2018. The OP didn't elaborate, but I was able to do some digging last night and this morning -- and apparently three weeks ago the announcement was made that all overnight Trails & Rails programs would be going away (or will be transitioned into day-time programs only) and that docents will have to pay for their own meals on the train from now on. From what my sources told me, Amtrak initially wanted to do away with the program all-together effective next year, but the National Park Service and Trails & Rails' founder pushed back and are trying to reach a compromise that would keep a minimal number of short routes that do not require meals and will just be day-trips out and back (i.e. the Chicago-based program on the Wolverine that just goes 89 miles over to Niles, MI).

I can't imagine the Zephyr without guides on from Denver through the Rockies. Even though Trails & Rails was horribly mis-managed by its founder in my opinion... I'm sad to hear this.

I was a docent for Trails & Rails on the Empire Builder program between Chicago and Minneapolis (2007-2010) and then basically single-handily started a new T&R program on the Southwest Chief between Chicago and La Plata, MO that operated between December 2012 and July 2015; it was co-sponsored by Amtrak, NPS, and the American Passenger Rail Heritage Foundaiton out of La Plata, MO. After about 2.5 years, we didn't see eye-to-eye with the Trails & Rails founder... and after he was a complete jerk to us... the program on our route unraveled... we separated ways... and went on to found our own program called the APRHF Rail Rangers. We narrate now on private rail excursions out of Chicago and 2-3x a month on the South Shore Line between Chicago and South Bend. We still work with the National Park Service out of the Indiana Dunes National Lakeshore and are still Volunteer-in-Parks for our program.

Still, a lot of people pour their hearts and soul into Trails & Rails and enhancing passengers' experience... this is a slap in the face from Amtrak. Yes, I know not all guides are good (I've seen several and kicked several out of my programs!)... but I would say most agree having someone on board to tell you what you are seeing our your window enhances the trip.

Only Amtrak would take a volunteer thing that basically costs them nothing and want to cut it. It's kinda like what they did with National Train Day here in Chicago. All of the people working the event were volunteers (including Amtrak employees who came in on their day off to be there but not get paid!!)... it couldn't have cost Amtrak much if anything to put on because they were using Union Station ----- which they own... yet they were clearly making money because they sold yard tours for $10/pp, merchandise, t-shirts, wooden whistles, etc... but somehow National Train Day needed to be cut because it "cost too much to put on".

Penny wise and pound foolish!

Honestly, some of those guides were doing more harm then good in my opinion.

Yeah, I didn't really get that much out the T&R program myself. I did enjoy the flashing yellow lady though. I just wish her books were easily downloaded documents rather than tediously purchased spiral books.

I think the T&R program may have been much more useful for people who travel much less by Amtrak and read much less about the history of construction of the various routes than me.

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crescent-zephyr said:

Honestly, some of those guides were doing more harm then good in my opinion.

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Like anything that's volunteer I guess.. you're going to get some of that. Being the Chicago Coordinator for Trails & Rails (2012-2015) and one of the few safety trainers... I got to observe a lot of different programs and see that first hand.

The quality of Trails & Rails programs varied GREATLY with location and how things were managed.

Case and point ----- Knife River Indian Villages National Historical Site (located in the middle of nowhere North Dakota) tried having a Trails & Rails program on the Empire Builder across North Dakota and Montana. They succeeded for awhile because of a really good NPS ranger (I believe he's Park Superintendent there now) who was really committed to it... but jeesh... they finally had to quit because trying to find enough good docents who were good public speakers with a volunteer crew base in po-dunk North Dakota was not quite working out for them.

Ironically, we had quite the opposite problem in Chicago --- too many people who wanted to be part of our Trails & Rails program. We operated on the Texas Eagle to St. Louis (1999-2004), Empire Builder to Minnesota (2005-2010), and Southwest Chief to La Plata, MO (2012-2015). The managers of the Chicago program before I took over in 2012 had a really hard time saying NO to everyone and anyone who wanted to volunteer when they should have been a bit more picky with applications. They let too many "railfans" in the program who were not good public speakers and had no business being part of representing Amtrak and the National Park Service in a public capacity. Sure, you've gotta like riding the train to do Trails & Rails... but guides shouldn't be foaming when doing a program in the lounge car. We definitely had people who were in for the free hotel stay and meals in the dining car no doubt, but I really cracked down and weeded that stuff out when we started up on the Southwest Chief in 2012. The focus of the program had to be on history, geology, etc. and not where every branch line went.

Like I mentioned in my original post, we broke off from Trails & Rails in 2015 and started a new program called Rail Rangers. Amtrak doesn't like the fact we did that and won't let us do our programs on their trains... so we exclusively work with about 6 private railcar providers to do our educational programs... we were on the Hoosier State under IPH... and are now doing programs 2-3x a month on the South Shore Line between Chicago and South Bend. The nice thing is I was able to cherry pick the best docents out of the defunct Trails & Rails programs to have as part of my new Rail Rangers program now. We have about 11 guides and are looking for a few more. Come ride with us... you will have a good time. I keep telling my guides that they have to remember we are doing the program for the "average" passenger -- maybe that grandma traveling to visit her grandkids. She cares about history and some general stuff out her window... we don't need to fixate on every branch line and every nuance of rail history. You'd better know it in case you are asked a question by a railfan trying to stump you *LOL*, but we don't need to include it on our general programs. Now we did a special program for NARP's 50th, and that was more okay to be rail focused... but most people don't want to hear it.

Also, I emphasize it's okay not to yack the whole time. Tell a good story in 45 seconds and then be quiet for 5 or 10 minutes. Because we're on to narrate doesn't mean non-stop talk. Myself, my wife, my sister, and another AU forum member rode on the Adirondack with the dome car in October. We had an awesome Trails & Rails docent heading south (Jeff), but holy cow... going north it got so bad that I almost wanted to leave the dome car. And if you know me, it's gotta be bad for me to want to leave Ocean View!!! They literally talked NON-STOP about the Revolutionary War for 71 minutes. I am not kidding. I love trains and history, but don't need to know every troop position at Ft. Ticonderoga either.

Again, it's all about quality control of docents... but that was hard under how Trails & Rails was set up. The program was administered basically by one person (it's founder) who is based in Texas/Louisiana. Then each program is designed by its particular park. So not only are you going to have varying degrees of quality of docents like mentioned above -- you are going to have varying degrees of interests among the sponsor parks, too. And that changes like the tide when new management came in. Our sponsor park in the Twin Cities was very supportive of Trails & Rails until a new Superintendent came in around 2010 and since the train didn't go through the park, it was not a priority anymore and we eventually got cancelled so the hotel money used for docents could be put toward creating more trails and bicycle-related programs within the park.

Devil's Advocate said:

Yeah, I didn't really get that much out the T&R program myself. I did enjoy the flashing yellow lady though. I just wish her books were easily downloaded documents rather than tediously purchased spiral books.

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That's Eva Hoffman... she is great and a personal friend of mine. She was actually one of my inspirations for writing railroad route guidebooks (we have 12 published titles) the past six years now. She isn't super computer-savy, so I actually have an agreement with her to sell her books on my website... I guess I can't give out the URL or promote the site even though all money goes towards our non-profit... maybe if you're a savvy Googler and you look outside the rails (*cough*) you can find us. Anyway, I talked to her about digital copies and she has considered it, but is worried too many people will pass around the electronic editions or share them for free that she doesn't want to do it. One could easily buy her books I would imagine and scan them in at Kinko's or something... that is what I have done when we travel and don't want to lug the books around.

rtabern said:

Also, I emphasize it's okay not to yack the whole time. Tell a good story in 45 seconds and then be quiet for 5 or 10 minutes. Because we're on to narrate doesn't mean non-stop talk. Myself, my wife, my sister, and another AU forum member rode on the Adirondack with the dome car in October. We had an awesome Trails & Rails docent heading south (Jeff), but holy cow... going north it got so bad that I almost wanted to leave the dome car. And if you know me, it's gotta be bad for me to want to leave Ocean View!!! They literally talked NON-STOP about the Revolutionary War for 71 minutes. I am not kidding. I love trains and history, but don't need to know every troop position at Ft. Ticonderoga either.

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That was one of my biggest complaints.. I enjoy going to the lounge car to listen but I don't want to hear a non-stop lecture. I just want to hear some neat facts now and then and know what to look for. For sure some guides were quite good, but I remember the last time I rode the Zephyr the guide through the Rockies rambled on and on and dived into political issues even. He actually made me quite uncomfortable because he made the mood in the car quite awkward with his political rants.

One of the best guides on Amtrak is one of the Conductors on the Zephyr. He works out of Grand Junction and I've gotten lucky enough to have him on multiple trips. He makes a ride through Ruby Canyon a real pleasure!

As a side note... I met you quite briefly on a #261 trip last year. The research you put into your guide books is really something and I'm glad you are having success with the Private Car Industry.

There are technological solutions to the problem. Lots of places are using wireless narration/guide devices, with headphones and multiple languages, and/or smartphone apps that let people use their own devices. Consistent, professional narration would beat the hit and miss docent presentations that I've sat through. Some have been good, some not. Automating it would also allow it to be extended, into an audio route guide -- that kind of information could be entertaining all along the entire route, not just selected segments.

I enjoyed the Trails and Rails Program that the gentlemen provided on the Empire Builder while traveling through Glacier NP. They did an excellent job and had maps that they provided for guests that wanted one. It enhanced my trip.

crescent-zephyr said:

Honestly, some of those guides were doing more harm then good in my opinion.

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I think it was a well intentioned program, and the volunteers gave selflessly of their spare time. So long as they were on board, what's wrong with cutting them some slack with a meal?

I will admit that a few volunteers droned on and on too much about the most trivial minutia, audio quality was poor and too loud, and one in particular kept inserting his personal opinions too much. But these were the exceptions.

Although I agree that the presentations by the Trails and Rails folk were a bit "patchy" in quality, it seems a shame that this link between train travel and the Parks service is finishing. If I were of a suspicious turn of mind, I would imagine it goes along with the recently announced sell off of many public lands to private companies, etc...

Ed.

"Only Amtrak would take a volunteer thing that basically costs them nothing and want to cut it."

Well, it did cost Amtrak. They paid for the hotel rooms (hard money) and the onboard meals (soft money).

Only Amtrak would take a volunteer thing that basically costs them nothing and want to cut it.

Yeah, really. Its like thinking a volunteer fire department is free. Sure you dont pay the firemen, but all the equipment, buildings, training and so on costs money. Not saying Im glad the program is going away (although I never really enjoyed the blithering old fools yapping on and on about mostly nothing), but please, construct your logic on accurate premises.

It also has an impact on brand image. Professionally and consistently executed, it's a positive for the brand. Inconsistent and amateurish, it's a negative.

I don't know why Amtrak made this decision, but if it's because some trains had good speakers and others had bad ones, and they want to create a consistent customer experience at whatever quality levels they lead customers to expect, then it's a good move. It's also a very small drop in the bucket in terms of creating a consistent Amtrak customer experience at a given quality level, but it's a start.

Time for a App.

Maybe with multi speakers. Clue in by GPS. Take in account of the direction of travel. Cover the track both day and night. (Late trains). Able to hit a (whats that?) button. Charge like 99 cents for the program. Downloaded for each route. Updates ever year or so.

Would not be too hard, would take time to gather the info, and then package.

The question is how big of a file. Something you can download off your data plan while enroute would be ideal.

Rtabern, I have always enjoyed the docents who were on the trains I have ridden, even though they often had to struggle with being overwhelmed by a lounge full of folks who had no interest in the program. I would love to hear your presentation on the South Shore because ever since I was a small growing up northwest of Chicago, I was always fascinated by the mills, refineries and other neat things in the Gary-Hammond area whenever we drove to Elkhart. Even today my nose is shoved hard against the window when I train through that stretch.

OlympianHiawatha said:

Rtabern, I have always enjoyed the docents who were on the trains I have ridden, even though they often had to struggle with being overwhelmed by a lounge full of folks who had no interest in the program. I would love to hear your presentation on the South Shore because ever since I was a small growing up northwest of Chicago, I was always fascinated by the mills, refineries and other neat things in the Gary-Hammond area whenever we drove to Elkhart. Even today my nose is shoved hard against the window when I train through that stretch.

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Program dates are up on our website. www.dunestrain.com

This link is to our 501c3 non profit that provides educational programs on trains and I have no financial gain from sharing this link.

I heard a NPS ranger on the EB west from E Glacier. He was based in the NPS office in Seattle. His talk.was outstanding: informed, articulate, and entertaining. Is this part of the Rail and Trails or are the NPS rangers a separate program. I would imagine there is a difference in quality between volunteers and NPS staff. The latter should be better marketed by Amtrak rather than discontinued.

A very common occurrence in many areas of life...people who have negative experiences complain much more often and more loudly than those who have a positive experience chime in with accolades....Folks get tired of hearing lots of minuses without a lot of pluses.....

It would have been nice if the narration was piped into the Sleeping cars, because when I pay for a room, I tend to stay in it rather than put up with the crowd (and quite often impolite people) in the SSL, especially when the docents are speaking. Thus, I have never been able to take advantage of what I believe to be a wonderful program in the cross-country trips I have taken.

PVD said:

A very common occurrence in many areas of life...people who have negative experiences complain much more often and more loudly than those who have a positive experience chime in with accolades....Folks get tired of hearing lots of minuses without a lot of pluses.....

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The thing about putting a volunteer on a public address system is that everyone has to listen to them whether they want to or not. You can choose not to look at something but it's not so easy to choose what your ears hear. I really enjoyed Eva Hoffman's stories but her presence didn't make or brake the trip for me. Whereas someone else who just wanted to quietly watch the scenery might have been really annoyed by her narration. They could go back to their seat or room or whatever but losing out on lounge car might be a big deal to them. It'd be the same thing if Amtrak played music in the lounge. No matter which artist or genre they picked you'd be lucky if half the passengers enjoyed it. The other half wouldn't like it and maybe a quarter would hate it so much they'd be forced to leave. In the end it would be a net negative because very few people are going to refuse to enter the lounge due to lack of music.

One of the most useful innovations used in museums and exhibitions today- the headset narrations that go along with exhibits based on proximity or visitor input... everyone else doesn't have to hear what you want to.....

Texas Eagle used to have podcasts you could download from Amtrak's site that I thought were interesting - I'd have liked to see the concept expanded. The portion from CHI-SAS had better than 75 audio files, the SAS-LAX had almost 60 - most no longer than 3 minutes. They covered a lot of the kinds of topics the guides do, at least like the couple of times I managed to catch a T&R program.

The podcasts are still shown on the Amtrak website, but I did not try the individual links.