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Woman suing over Empire Builder rape case


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#21 Karl1459

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 06:40 PM

I wonder how many of fun us have had this creep for an sca. And how many times was he reported for other stuff besides the charges already mentioned.


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Again, to read the article the perp was hired as a "chef". However he would have free access through (Seattle) sleeper territory to get to the trans dorm. The ones who screwed up seem to be the Railway Labor Board, for which they will be rewarded with full taxpayer funded retirement!



#22 crescent-zephyr

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 07:02 PM

I think he was rehired as a sleeper attendant. I read multiple articles on it so I'm not sure which article it was in.

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#23 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 08:02 PM

According to the article Amtrak did take complaints seriously and fired this employee in the past. But thanks to special protections afforded to union members and railway employees they were later forced to rehire him again.
 

 

There IS a supervisor on board! He or she is called the Conductor!

 

In all my years of riding on Amtrak I've never once seen an on-duty conductor actively counter or correct the actions of a sleeper/coach attendant or dining crew.  Nor does Amtrak ever bother to explain to their customers how their structure of escalation and accountability is supposed to work.  Even if you call Amtrak while on the train they cannot seem to do anything to resolve a dispute while you're still aboard.  So far as I can tell Amtrak offers no practical method for immediate conflict resolution other than kicking the customer off the train.


Edited by Devil's Advocate, 27 November 2017 - 08:04 PM.

I used to be with ‘it,’ but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it,’ and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary.


#24 the_traveler

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 08:04 PM

There IS a supervisor on board! He or she is called the Conductor!

Or do you mean someone who watches over you all the time? :huh: When I worked for the IRS in Arizona, my Supervisor was in Phoenix - 260 miles away. Then due to a realignment of districts, my Supervisor was in Las Vegas - 125 miles away. My Supervisor did not look over my shoulder every day, but I did have to report to her.

The last I hear the LSA was the manager of OBS correct?
 
So in the IRS office there was no office manager? seems odd.
So you yourself admit there WAS a Supervisor on board! And yes, the LSA is the Supervisor of OBS, and while onboard the Conductor is the Supervisor of the LSA.

My IRS office was a satellite office. It consisted of 1 Tax Auditor (myself), 2 Revenue Agents And 2 Revenue Officers.
Take it easy .......

Take the train instead and enjoy the ride!

The view is much better at 3 feet than it is at 30,000 feet!

#25 SarahZ

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 08:30 PM

Its shocking that this could happen. It is possible. Assume the guy got in there and closed and locked the door and the bed was down. If he prevents or scares her into silence then it's possible.

Don't know how full that car was. The crew would have to be passing through at exactly the right time.

 

Considering the EB passes through Wolf Point at 11:41 a.m. (if running on time), it's possible most people were at lunch or in the lounge car.

 

That said, think about how noisy the train gets at times. If he had a pillow or his hand over her mouth, no one would have heard her, even if the car had been full. Even if she'd kicked the door or wall, people would just attribute it to the random banging you hear when going over switches or when car attendants move berths around. Add to that, people in their rooms generally wear headphones.

 

At 11:41, if I'm not at lunch, I'm in my room with the curtain and/or door closed and my headphones on. I wouldn't have heard a thing. :( 

 

That poor lady. The report of her injuries is just awful. I cannot even begin to imagine what she is going through.


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#26 crescent-zephyr

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 08:54 PM

There IS a supervisor on board! He or she is called the Conductor!

Or do you mean someone who watches over you all the time? :huh: When I worked for the IRS in Arizona, my Supervisor was in Phoenix - 260 miles away. Then due to a realignment of districts, my Supervisor was in Las Vegas - 125 miles away. My Supervisor did not look over my shoulder every day, but I did have to report to her.

The last I hear the LSA was the manager of OBS correct?
 
So in the IRS office there was no office manager? seems odd.
So you yourself admit there WAS a Supervisor on board! And yes, the LSA is the Supervisor of OBS, and while onboard the Conductor is the Supervisor of the LSA.

My IRS office was a satellite office. It consisted of 1 Tax Auditor (myself), 2 Revenue Agents And 2 Revenue Officers.

I had meant a supervisor position like the previous Chief of On board services or the train manager position (can't remember the title) on VIA rail.

Amtrak: - Coast Starlight*, Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin*, Cascades*, Empire Builder*, California Zephyr*, Southwest Chief*, City of New Orleans*, River Cities, Illinois Zephyr*, Wolverine, Cardinal, Capitol Limited*, Lake Shore Limited, Downeaster, Acela Express*, Crescent*, Carolinian*, Silver Star*, Silver Meteor*, Maple Leaf* Texas Eagle.

 

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Iowa Pacific - Hoosier State*, and City of New Orleans Pullman*.   


#27 Thirdrail7

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:11 PM

According to the article Amtrak did take complaints seriously and fired this employee in the past. But thanks to special protections afforded to union members and railway employees they were later forced to rehire him again.

 

 

Perhaps I am reading this incorrectly but it seems to me that he was fired twice. Once in roughly 2002 and once in 2006:

 

 

But Michael George, the victim's Great Falls attorney, alleges Amtrak had records of Pinner's employee misconduct from 2000, specifically incidents of hostility against white women, when he told a female co-worker, "You're the typical garden variety type, and that's a typical Anglo-Saxon trait," and on the same day told another, "I have no trouble strangling a white woman."

Two years later, another complaint was filed against Pinner for violating Amtrak's personal conduct, honesty and safety policies. Court records don't include any specifics about the violation, but Pinner was dismissed as a result of the complaint, although he was reinstated five months later, according to court documents

And in 2006, the train company launched a "formal investigation" into Pinner for reportedly selling pornography while on the job. The company reportedly learned about Pinner's endeavors when he told a van driver he was selling X-rated adult videos, and handed the driver a bag of them.

Court documents filed by Amtrak attorneys state the company did act on Pinner's misconduct, and actually terminated him in 2006.

 

 


In all my years of riding on Amtrak I've never once seen an on-duty conductor actively counter or correct the actions of a sleeper/coach attendant or dining crew.  Nor does Amtrak ever bother to explain to their customers how their structure of escalation and accountability is supposed to work.  Even if you call Amtrak while on the train they cannot seem to do anything to resolve a dispute while you're still aboard.  So far as I can tell Amtrak offers no practical method for immediate conflict resolution other than kicking the customer off the train.

 

It used to happen quite a bit. However, it calmed down when the Boardman regime came in.  The lines became blurred under layers of management and protocol. When Gunn was in charge, it was a pot luck. Crew members and passengers alike were booted off the train.  I remember a conductor that had his engineer dragged off in handcuffs mid trip!  Hopefully, Moorman's plan to streamline management will bring back an era of clear responsibility and accountability.

 

This is terrible for the lady involved and I would think if they had a shred of decency, a settlement would occur ASAP.


Edited by Thirdrail7, 27 November 2017 - 09:13 PM.

They say laughter is the best medicine. Obviously they never posted on AU.


#28 LookingGlassTie

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:17 PM

All I can say is "wow"!!     :excl:


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#29 Charles785

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 10:39 PM

Why is it so difficult to fire these unionized workers, even ones with criminal backgrounds as in the

case of this Pinner guy?  According to the story in the Great Falls Tribune he had a rap sheet

that included  felony robbery and drug trafficking, and he was quoted as having told an Amtrak

co-worker that "I would have no trouble strangling a white woman." At best he sounds like

one surly son of a gun who certainly doesn't belong in any kind of customer service work.

 

It's difficult to believe whatever labor union he was part of would be required to defend a guy like

that.  And if some law required a union to defend someone like that, then the law needs to be

changed. 



#30 Lonestar648

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 11:18 PM

First, This poor woman should be taken care of immediately, medically, psychologically, and financially. Then Amtrak management must dissect the crime to find the the points where in the decision process failure occurred. I would hope that the unions could be involved, even quietly, to help root out such criminals who are dangerous to the safety and welfare of passengers and crew.  Passengers need to feel safe on board, and parents need to feel it is safe to bring their children. Does the Union feel they have to support a member who has committed a major felony, basically stating it is permissible to murder, rape, and brutalize passengers?  Deep background checks are needed, Amtrak needs a policy of no felony criminal records and suspended if indited until convicted, then terminated. Amtrak and the Unions have to make sure everyone is as safe as possible from predators.



#31 west point

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 11:32 PM

Have no idea if possible but maybe the arbitration board or whom ever should be sued as well for requiring a person such as this to be re instated ?  Maybe that would give it more push towards terminations for bad conduct ?



#32 the_traveler

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 12:43 AM

I am confused!:wacko:

If he is serving 60 years and was in prison in late November 2017 in MT, how is he reinstated and now working for Amtrak?:huh:
Take it easy .......

Take the train instead and enjoy the ride!

The view is much better at 3 feet than it is at 30,000 feet!

#33 SarahZ

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 12:58 AM

I am confused! :wacko:

If he is serving 60 years and was in prison in late November 2017 in MT, how is he reinstated and now working for Amtrak? :huh:

 

He was reinstated before the rape occurred. That's why she's suing. 


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#34 tricia

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 07:58 AM

From the article at link provided by OP:

 

"Court documents filed by Amtrak attorneys state the company did act on Pinner's misconduct, and actually terminated him in 2006. Pinner, backed by his union, appealed his firing and a binding Board determined the discipline was too severe. Pinner was again reinstated and worked with the train company until Oct. 1, 2015, when he was terminated for the rape in Roosevelt County, Montana approximately six months after it took place on April 19. Court documents also state the company launched its own formal investigation into the incident on May 6."

 

Six months?!? I hope he was NOT working on trains during those six months, but see little in Amtrak's reported handling of this that's reassuing about that. Geez, did it really take more than 2 weeks before Amtrak "launched its own formal investigation?"

 

I'm female and almost always travel alone on LD trains. This story makes me wonder how delusional I've been about safety.



#35 Lonestar648

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 10:18 AM

Can't say if this happened, but when a felony occurred with the company I worked for, the company waited for the police to complete their preliminary on sight investigation. The reasoning was to not interfere with the primary criminal investigation. Unofficially,and behind the scenes, I was aware that our company started an investigation almost immediately.  The person in question was immediately suspended with pay, then terminated in conjunction with the police report. 



#36 tricia

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 10:27 AM

 

 

I also really dislike the fact that Amtrak is saying "it's not our fault" instead of saying "we are currently conducting complete background checks on all employees, along with retraining staff to make sure nothing like this ever happens again" 

 

This ^  (Wish we had a "like" button on this forum. Also a sarcasm emoji)



#37 AmtrakBlue

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 10:40 AM

I'm female and almost always travel alone on LD trains. This story makes me wonder how delusional I've been about safety.

I’m female and travel alone and do not let things like this keep me from enjoying my travels. I feel just as safe traveling as I do at home.


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#38 Steve4031

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:08 AM

Iirc the passenger did not immediately report the rape. She waited until after the trip was completed. Thus there would have been a delay in the start of the process.


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#39 LookingGlassTie

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:44 AM

To (possibly) answer Charles785's question, this guy probably had the "powers that be" over a barrel.  You know, the whole discrimination/identity politics stuff, given his background.  Sounds like a classic case of one area of law tripping over another one, with collateral damage. 


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#40 GBNorman

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:50 AM

While hardly surprising the incident being discussed is hardly the "one and only". Here is a first person account of another:

http://www.livinglea...tsourstory.html

And a piece of advice from within to Amtrak to which they ought to give serious consideration:

For CRYING OUT LOUD they need armrests that can be put down when you are sitting next to someone who is a stranger to you. It makes it so that you are basically sitting in a loveseat shaped space with someone you dont know!!!!


Edited by GBNorman, 28 November 2017 - 11:52 AM.





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