Business Class on LD trains

While searching on the Amtrak website just a while ago, noticed that BC price is now listed separately.

Don't have to search amongst the rooms anymore to find the price. Much more convenient! It seems that they are fixing some of the bugs that some have complained about since the new website was released. During the booking process it is now possible to view any eVouchers that one might have also.

I think Amtrak will miraculously discover that BC gets much more popular now. Half the problem was that regular folks didn’t know it existed and couldn’t find it online to book it even if they knew.

I just tried to book Indy-Chicago and was only able to book it one way. The other way was full. Ahhhhh, the downside of people seeing it as an option.

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Still listed in with the rooms on the LSL when I booked today.

Amtrak's five year strategy for 2017-2022 states that they plan to add BC to all LD trains. It is one of the various means for enhancing revenues.

Having BC on LD trains is good, IMO. It allows some passengers to have a dedicated car (hopefully with fewer people) for a slightly higher fare. Such people may want SOME quiet and privacy but they can't afford (or don't want to pay for) a sleeper room.

I'd gladly take BC on the Silver Meteor or Star, if those trains get that.

BC is a good deal, and I try to get that whenever I'm on a daytime train if it's offered.

I wish Amtrak would find a way to bring back something akin to the old Slumbercoach for overnight trains. Not fancy at all, but private and you slept horizontal. The cost was affordable. In today's world, to make this a financial possibility for Amtrak, I'd even be willing to make my own bed and expect little in the way of service!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slumbercoach

Skyline said:

I wish Amtrak would find a way to bring back something akin to the old Slumbercoach for overnight trains. Not fancy at all, but private and you slept horizontal. The cost was affordable. In today's world, to make this a financial possibility for Amtrak, I'd even be willing to make my own bed and expect little in the way of service!

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I'll second that! An upper single Slumbercoach was my favorite accommodation when traveling alone.

neroden said:

Still listed in with the rooms on the LSL when I booked today.

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Yesterday this topic sent me to Amsnag, where Business Class for late January/early February appears to be still wide open (all low bucket).

Today, your post sent me directly to Amtrak, where as of now, Business Class is prominently listed between flexible fare and premium (sleeper). Guess I'd better book it soon.

RPC said:

Skyline said:

I wish Amtrak would find a way to bring back something akin to the old Slumbercoach for overnight trains. Not fancy at all, but private and you slept horizontal. The cost was affordable. In today's world, to make this a financial possibility for Amtrak, I'd even be willing to make my own bed and expect little in the way of service!

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I'll second that! An upper single Slumbercoach was my favorite accommodation when traveling alone.

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Ditto!!!

I would gladly do an overnight in a herringbone business class product, like is the norm on international flights today.

Realistically, wouldn't it just be simpler to do berth service based off of the roomette design? Tear out the interior walls along the hallway and sell each bunk as a berth. Might need to do some adjusting with the closet and such, but I would think it'd be hard to beat that for number of berths in a car. (A business class style setup like on an airplane loses the ability to use the height of the train to put a second bunk in, which would drop capacity somewhat.)

Let's just fast-forward to Slumbercoach part 2? Privacy, max capacity, bridge product between sleeper and coach. Plus a flat mattress...

Failing that, 2 x 1 seating and increased pitch / closer to lay flat seating would be a fair compromise, but wouldn't get a price premium over coach to quite the same level.

Could you fit more lie flat seats into a Superliner than Berths? I suspect you could, and I'd be willing to be in a lie flat seat instead of an upper berth.

A lie-flat seat in BC alone won’t work unless there is also a barrier between seats — both side-to-side and front-to-back. I would not want the person in the seat next to me rolling over on to me. And I would not want the feet of the person behind me creeping forward next to my head.

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chakk said:

A lie-flat seat in BC alone won’t work unless there is also a barrier between seats — both side-to-side and front-to-back. I would not want the person in the seat next to me rolling over on to me. And I would not want the feet of the person behind me creeping forward next to my head.

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Those issue have been adequately addressed in multiple designs of lie flat seats used on airliners.

Those seats I posted earlier go fully flat. There are partitions between each seat. Some airlines do turndown service with a thin mattress and bedding on top of the seat. The seat itself is an off the shelf design airlines buy from seat makers. It's not reinventing the wheel, although I'm sure the seats themselves are very expensive and FRA testing wouldn't be easy or cheap.

Well, at least those seats on trains will not require seat belts to be available to strap into the bed for the night - a requirement in airline seats.

I would be quite amazed actually if FRA in all its wisdom comes up with more stringent safety requirements for seats on trains than on planes. But one should never underestimate their ingenuity towards pointlessly thwarting improvements.

I'd be curious to see how many of those would fit in a Superliner/Amfleet/etc. shell. I did a little bit of Googling and I couldn't figure out what's a good dimension/space amount to assume for such a seat would be.

Several of us have looked at this before. Unless you make the seats hopelessly narrow, you cannot fit more of them than you can fit berths in a Section arrangement, or in Roomettes.

jis said:

Several of us have looked at this before. Unless you make the seats hopelessly narrow, you cannot fit more of them than you can fit berths in a Section arrangement, or in Roomettes.

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That is probably true, the question is whether you could sell these better than berths, I think these give a better illusion of privacy as opposed to having to face a stranger in front of you all day as berths have. Since none of this would be custom, you might be able to install these cheaper than creating a section car (since it would just need to be a coach conversion.

Basically for a comfortable seat width you will get 75% of the capacity of an equivalent all Roomettes or all Sections car, since you’ll get three abreast instead of four. With some herringboning one might get one additional row in maybe. Unfortunately rail cars are just not very wide.

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With an airline man a the helm, the Company may well look into the feasibility of a pod business class concept. 75% capacity is profitable; it may actually be even MORE profitable than a traditional sleeper since turn-over would likely be higher while turn-over costs would be less. And it gives Amtrak a modern, up to date look that the majority of the traveling public will instantly relate to and see as a superior product.

Sections, berths and traditional rooms are anachronistic to anyone except the railfan. They're not going to attract interest or a desire to shell out on them in large numbers beyond what the market bares for current sleeper products. However, lie-flat seat pods? Every airline Coach passenger forced to shuffle past First/Business Class on a jet has the image of those as being "premium" and enviable. Put those in and you're going to have an instant supply and demand imbalance, I'm sure of it.

desertflyer said:

I would gladly do an overnight in a herringbone business class product, like is the norm on international flights today.

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I agree with gist of your suggestion but please keep in mind that this is not the norm on international flights. There are literally hundreds of international flights flown with nothing but coach seats every single day. Many of them struggle to last more than an hour or two so there is no need for a premium transoceanic sleeping pod. What you're referring to are more accurately termed intercontinental flights.

jis said:

Several of us have looked at this before. Unless you make the seats hopelessly narrow, you cannot fit more of them than you can fit berths in a Section arrangement, or in Roomettes.

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&

jis said:

Basically for a comfortable seat width you will get 75% of the capacity of an equivalent all Roomettes or all Sections car, since you’ll get three abreast instead of four. With some herringboning one might get one additional row in maybe. Unfortunately rail cars are just not very wide.

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Amtrak rolling stock doesn't seem to be laid out in an especially efficient manner. Maybe the new Viewliners are better but the old Superliners I ride seem to be full of unused areas and wasted spaces. Would it be possible to move the HVAC and electrical hardware up on the roof? What about turning Room #1 into a revenue birth by replacing the alert panel with airline style at-seat alert lights? How about reducing the size of those enormous trucks and compressing movement clearances to reclaim some of the lower level footprint? Presumably you don't need lie-flat premium seating to match 100% of the original bed tally since you can now sell each bed individually instead grouping them 2-4 at a time with 1-3 beds at risk of being "wasted" on a single revenue ticket.

Blackwolf said:

Put those in and you're going to have an instant supply and demand imbalance, I'm sure of it.

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I think you make a strong case for moving to business class style sleeping pods. Technically Amtrak already has a supply imbalance when it comes to sleeper compartments, but a move toward lie-flat sleeping pods might allow them to sell more tickets per sleeper car since each bed can be sold individually rather than in groups of 2-4.