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New York City subway will replace MetroCard with Apple Pay


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#1 CHamilton

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 02:14 PM

New York City subway will replace MetroCard with Apple Pay tap-to-pay starting in 2018

http://appleinsider....tarting-in-2018


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#2 Ryan

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 02:20 PM

“In the interim, The MTA will begin phasing in the new NFC payment terminals at 500 subway turnstiles and 600 buses by late 2018. The more than half-billion-dollar contract calls for all subway stations and buses to have support for Apple Pay by late 2020.”

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#3 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 02:20 PM

I like the idea of bypassing the parked funds requirement, but I also wonder how much fares will need to increase in order to cover yet another financial services middleman.

I used to be with ‘it,’ but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it,’ and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary.


#4 jis

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 02:25 PM

Looks like NY MTA is going in a direction similar to Portland OR did.

 

Now if they could get automatic capping with a Day Pass rate like Portland ....



#5 Dave Van

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 03:30 PM

So your phone does not with Applepay????


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#6 trainman74

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 03:46 PM

Aw, no more "SWIPE AGAIN HERE"?

Chicago has already had this type of payment for a couple of years, so it's nice to see the Big Apple getting on board with it.

#7 jis

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 03:50 PM

So your phone does not with Applepay????

??

You use your iPhone to pay using ApplePay. I have done so both in Portland (instead of a HOP Card) and in Chicago (instead of a Ventra Card). Works just fine. In Chicago you cannot get some discounts with ApplePay that you can with Ventra. Similarly, in Portland all of the discounts available through the HOP Card or Paper tickets are not available when using ApplePay. Only some are. And of course in Portland the Android Wallet, or whatever they call it, works too.



#8 jebr

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 04:40 PM

The article doesn't mention it, so I wanted to check: are they also making sure to include some sort of "agency contactless card" for those who don't have contactless payment methods or wish not to use them? Frankly, I find it much easier to have a "local" fare card for the most part and not have to rely on my phone working properly (especially with NFC payment, which has been an exercise in frustration whenever I've used it on Android.) There's also plenty of people with budget phones (or no smartphone at all) that would need some sort of way to use the transit system.

 

I'm guessing there is, but it seems odd to not mention that in the article.



#9 jis

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 05:03 PM

I believe almost any NFC Credit or Debit Card will work in the system. at least in principle. But I could be wrong of course. Given that the basic mechanism and hardware needed is more or less the same, it is just a matter of setting up the configuration and software modules right.

 

Rightfully, a transit agency should not really need to have their own card, if they can help it. Basically the approach that Chicago took is to designate a specific Mastercard Debit Card as their card and set up and edifice around it. In principle New York could do the same, but using a technique that involves a lower involvement of MTA on the card management side of things I think.

 

London for example, has had the Oyster Card for voer a decade. But they are trying to start providing the same facility using any NFC Card or equivalent that is available to their customers.



#10 me_little_me

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 08:16 PM

The article doesn't mention it, so I wanted to check: are they also making sure to include some sort of "agency contactless card" for those who don't have contactless payment methods or wish not to use them? Frankly, I find it much easier to have a "local" fare card for the most part and not have to rely on my phone working properly (especially with NFC payment, which has been an exercise in frustration whenever I've used it on Android.) There's also plenty of people with budget phones (or no smartphone at all) that would need some sort of way to use the transit system.

 

I'm guessing there is, but it seems odd to not mention that in the article.

Keeps the lower classes off the upscale subway and bus transportation system. If you have to rub shoulders with someone, it should be with one who could afford the latest iphone without batting an eye. That limits it to teenagers, politicians and business execs.

 

Then again, the city might provide free 24K gold iphones that give the poor a feeling of equality: https://www.goldgeni...m/gold-iphone-7



#11 me_little_me

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 08:24 PM

"MetroCards wont be phased out until 2023, 30 years after their initial introduction. Instead of a MetroCard, users will be able to simply wave their smartphone in front of the payment reader. Specific details are somewhat unclear at this stage, but the readers will support NFC technologies like Apple Pay, Android Pay, and Samsung Pay. There will also be contactless cards – which are cards with an NFC chip embedded inside. That option removes the need for a smartphone or Apple Watch."

https://9to5mac.com/...nsit-apple-pay/

 

 

 



#12 Dave Van

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 10:45 PM

 

So your phone does not with Applepay????

??

You use your iPhone to pay using ApplePay. I have done so both in Portland (instead of a HOP Card) and in Chicago (instead of a Ventra Card). Works just fine. In Chicago you cannot get some discounts with ApplePay that you can with Ventra. Similarly, in Portland all of the discounts available through the HOP Card or Paper tickets are not available when using ApplePay. Only some are. And of course in Portland the Android Wallet, or whatever they call it, works too.

 

Believe it or not.....iphones are NOT 100% of the market. Coming from a IT background going back to 1975 I will not own or even permit Apple products in my house.......I know iphone users think there are no other phones.....but there are.others......

So.....again, I am SOL???


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#13 SarahZ

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 11:06 PM

Believe it or not.....iphones are NOT 100% of the market. Coming from a IT background going back to 1975 I will not own or even permit Apple products in my house.......I know iphone users think there are no other phones.....but there are.others......

So.....again, I am SOL???

 

 

Did you happen to read me_little_me's comment? It's directly above your response.


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#14 jis

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 11:15 PM

And furthermore as I explained, it is not just iPhones. It is almost any NFC device that has a deal with a payment clearing house. It is just that the NFC device I happen to use is an iPhone.


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#15 Ryan

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 04:01 AM

So much irrationality and so little reading comprehension.

Contrary to your belief, us iPhone do actually know that other phones exist.
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#16 NorthShore

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 06:49 AM

Beggar at the subway station in 2024:

"My phone battery is dead. Would you pay my fare with your iPhone?"

#17 jis

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 07:24 AM

Beggar at the subway station in 2024:

"My phone battery is dead. Would you pay my fare with your iPhone?"

In reality, just like now, they will be picking up discarded limited use prepaid cards hoping that there is enough left on them for one ride ;)

Delhi Metro has these neat little plastic coin like things with an embedded RFID, which can be purchased for a single ride. You put them in a slot like a token. That is what many people who do not have NFC devices or cards, use for paying fares. If people being unable to obtain and keep an NFC smart card like Ventra is a problem, there are other known solutions.

 

What is uniquely different in the smart card based systems though are the convenience features like seamless transfers, automatic maxing out for a day and limiting charges to the day pass amount, even when travel spans multiple fare zones and fares are time and distance based (e.g. London's Oyster Card system) etc. which were simply not doable with previous technologies.


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Edited by jis, 24 October 2017 - 08:30 AM.


#18 Dave Van

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 08:14 AM

There is a huge population that assume 'iphone' is like 'Jell-o'.....a wireless device is a iphone......work with the public for a while and see for yourself.

I still do not see the bias toward iphone weather it's today or in 10 years. Chances are in 10 years they may be unknown to the general public....things change that fast. Blockbuster went from zero to 10K stores to 11 stores is less than 15 years....it can happen to anyone.


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#19 jebr

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 08:52 AM

The NFC technology (or the ability to use Apple Pay/Android Pay) is almost certainly the best way forward. We've had NFC fare cards here in MSP for about 10 years now, although since it was built to be somewhat asynchronous (the buses don't talk back to the server until they go into the garage for the night) the only method is to use the agency's farecard (which is free.) Cash is still accepted on buses and ticket machines, though.

 

My only concern is that NYC needs something to sell to people who are unbanked and/or don't have a contactless card. There's a lot of people, especially when you look at the transit system world, that don't have bank accounts and operate on a mainly cash basis. There's also plenty of people who are banked but don't have any sort of contactless card (most budget phones don't have NFC built in, and most banks in the US currently don't issue contactless cards.) There certainly are solutions to use, but the agency needs to be proactive in making those solutions instead of reactive when they realize there's a lot of people that can't use contactless without an agency solution.



#20 jis

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 09:19 AM

In case anyone had difficulty believing or understanding the stuff that I have been trying to explain.... including all that claim to be IT experts ;)

 

https://www.nytimes....-york.html?_r=0

 

And jebr, NYC will have a designated NFC Card that will be vended by the MTA under a name yet to be determined, sort of like London has the Oyster Cards and Chicago has the Ventra Cards. So your concern is already being addressed. Afterall the guys who manage the Oyster system are the ones who have been chosen to deploy the system in New York.


Edited by jis, 24 October 2017 - 09:29 AM.





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