Bedroom vs roomette = cheaper!

Sometimes bedrooms cost less than roomettes! It pays to check both.

I was just playing around and found one such case. In this example, a bedroom cost over $50 less than a roomette.

FWIW, the Silver Service is the only LD train where it's not possible for a Bedroom to be cheaper than a Roomette. For all other LD trains, the overlap of high bucket Roomettes with low bucket Bedrooms can be anywhere from about $10 to as much as about $200.

niemi24s said:

FWIW, the Silver Service is the only LD train where it's not possible for a Bedroom to be cheaper than a Roomette. For all other LD trains, the overlap of high bucket Roomettes with low bucket Bedrooms can be anywhere from about $10 to as much as about $200.

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This has to be one of the most perplexing truths about riding Amtrak. If you're a corporate bean counter why would you ever want a bedroom to cost less than a Roomette? Even if it's the very last Roomette it seems like a bedroom should cost more. I enjoy roomettes as much as the next passenger, but I have yet to come up with a single knowable reason for why I'd prefer a roomette over a bedroom. For instance, I might prefer a roomette on the other side of the train from the bedroom, and I'd probably prefer a clean roomette to a nasty soiled bedroom. However, since those issues are unknowable at booking time I'd always choose a bedroom over a similarly priced roomette. The only exception I could think of is if I really wanted to ride on the bottom level of a sleeper and the only way to do that was to book a roomette.

Devil's Advocate said:

niemi24s said:

FWIW, the Silver Service is the only LD train where it's not possible for a Bedroom to be cheaper than a Roomette. For all other LD trains, the overlap of high bucket Roomettes with low bucket Bedrooms can be anywhere from about $10 to as much as about $200.

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This has to be one of the most perplexing truths about riding Amtrak. If you're a corporate bean counter why would you ever want a bedroom to cost less than a Roomette? Even if it's the very last Roomette it seems like a bedroom should cost more. I enjoy roomettes as much as the next passenger, but I have yet to come up with a single knowable reason for why I'd prefer a roomette over a bedroom. For instance, I might prefer a roomette on the other side of the train from the bedroom, and I'd probably prefer a clean roomette to a nasty soiled bedroom. However, since those issues are unknowable at booking time I'd always choose a bedroom over a similarly priced roomette. The only exception I could think of is if I really wanted to ride on the bottom level of a sleeper and the only way to do that was to book a roomette.

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Gotta agree with ya here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the NER and Acelas use to be like there, making it possible for First Class to be cheaper than Business on the Acelas, or Business be cheaper than Coach on the Regionals. Now the upgraded class has its own fare buckets, and they will also rise out of lower fare buckets after a certain amount of lower fares are sold in the base case of the train.

What you are saying is partially true, but a common exception in almost all travel and hospitality is last minute inventory. A hotel room, cruise cabin, or sleeper bedroom is worth zero dollars if empty. If all roomettes are sold, and bedrooms are empty near departure it makes sense to fill them even if at bargain prices. What would be a plus would be a system that upgrades existing reservations to the better space, and selling the empty roomettes. Priority to frequent travelers and high fare payers. Airlines and ships do it all the time.....

PVD said:

What you are saying is partially true, but a common exception in almost all travel and hospitality is last minute inventory. A hotel room, cruise cabin, or sleeper bedroom is worth zero dollars if empty. If all roomettes are sold, and bedrooms are empty near departure it makes sense to fill them even if at bargain prices. What would be a plus would be a system that upgrades existing reservations to the better space, and selling the empty roomettes. Priority to frequent travelers and high fare payers. Airlines and ships do it all the time.....

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The problem is how can you manage that on a trip like the Builder, California Zephyr, or other 2+ day trips? Do you want to upgrade everyone right out of the origin and risk losing a last minute bedroom sale (or paid upgrade) down the road? Not just that, but then how much more money would be lost by folks booking a roomette instead of a bedroom and taking a gamble that they'll be upgraded?
There's a huge difference between a train and a cruise, where one has passengers board once, and the other has passengers board all day and ask night. Would make things far more difficult to implement on Amtrak.

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Yield management is very complicated, and all of the above must be factored in to any algorithms developed. Difficult, certainly. Doable in a limited fashion, probably. Since the flexibility in pricing on board upgrades was taken away from the crew, how has that affected those sales? I don't have any real answer, just guessing. Right now the onus is on the passenger to keep looking at prices, and hope they can get an agent that understands "modify" I'm just offering the idea that a more robust reservation computer system could possibly offer some revenue enhancing and customer friendly possibilities. Not saying it's a 100% winner idea, but we all know the reservation system has long needed upgrading, and this is just another thing that would be a possibility with a 21st century system.

This happens quite often on the CL. We have snagged a bedroom for $50-$75 less than a roomette. But of course this is when the buckets are high so not really saving money relatively speaking. Better to find another day to travel if that is possible.

That happens on the Cardinal also. For example, a search for February travel between Chicago and DC shows five days when the bedroom is lower than the roomette.

02/01/18 50 Cardinal Bedroom 412.00 Roomette 625.00 02/03/18 50 Cardinal Bedroom SO Roomette 625.00 02/06/18 50 Cardinal Bedroom 514.00 Roomette 625.00 02/08/18 50 Cardinal Bedroom 412.00 Roomette 321.00 02/10/18 50 Cardinal Bedroom 412.00 Roomette 321.00 02/13/18 50 Cardinal Bedroom 825.00 Roomette 625.00 02/15/18 50 Cardinal Bedroom 412.00 Roomette 625.00 02/17/18 50 Cardinal Bedroom 825.00 Roomette 625.00 02/20/18 50 Cardinal Bedroom 514.00 Roomette 625.00 02/22/18 50 Cardinal Bedroom 412.00 Roomette 625.00 02/24/18 50 Cardinal Bedroom 825.00 Roomette 625.00 02/27/18 50 Cardinal Bedroom 825.00 Roomette 625.00 03/01/18 50 Cardinal Bedroom 412.00 Roomette 321.00

Thanks for the good info. As for the Cardinal, the bedroom costs have risen so high in $$$ (and points) that we can no longer afford to take it to CHI. The two train NEC business class (or Acela) , CL combo is less expensive. The NYC based LD trains (Cardinal, LSL and Crescent) are seem to be in the same boat. As a general rule Amtrak fares in the May-Sept time frame have all risen sharply.

dlagrua said:

As a general rule Amtrak fares in the May-Sept time frame have all risen sharply.

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Risen sharply? Is that somewhere between plain old "risen" and "skyrocketed"?

Triley said:

PVD said:

What you are saying is partially true, but a common exception in almost all travel and hospitality is last minute inventory. A hotel room, cruise cabin, or sleeper bedroom is worth zero dollars if empty. If all roomettes are sold, and bedrooms are empty near departure it makes sense to fill them even if at bargain prices. What would be a plus would be a system that upgrades existing reservations to the better space, and selling the empty roomettes. Priority to frequent travelers and high fare payers. Airlines and ships do it all the time.....

Click to expand...

The problem is how can you manage that on a trip like the Builder, California Zephyr, or other 2+ day trips? Do you want to upgrade everyone right out of the origin and risk losing a last minute bedroom sale (or paid upgrade) down the road? Not just that, but then how much more money would be lost by folks booking a roomette instead of a bedroom and taking a gamble that they'll be upgraded?
There's a huge difference between a train and a cruise, where one has passengers board once, and the other has passengers board all day and ask night. Would make things far more difficult to implement on Amtrak.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Amtrak Forum mobile app

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I don't think the simple fact that there's a lot of on/off points along the route precludes offering proactive upgrades, while keeping the availability desired for last-minute purchases. Amtrak could look back and see historical booking patterns and ensure to set aside enough rooms to non-upgradeable to cover the expected demand (at least 95-99% of the time.) Ideally, upgrades would also be targeted to help fill in inventory slots that are less likely to be filled and may actually free up space for Amtrak.

As an example, let's say that Amtrak has a roomette booked from EMY - SLC, but that roomette doesn't have a new occupant until Denver. Right now Amtrak can only sell that room to someone who is going somewhere between SLC - DEN. However, let's say Amtrak also has a bedroom available that doesn't have an occupant until SLC, and this is 12-24 hours before departure. Amtrak's computer, looking back, could see that only one day in the past two years has someone booked a bedroom somewhere along that segment (getting off at/before SLC) that close to departure, but that there's been about 15% of the time where Amtrak has sold a roomette to somewhere before Denver that close in. (They may also know that that room just from SLC only sells 2% of the time.) In such an instance, it almost makes more sense to upgrade that passenger to a bedroom and free up that roomette space that Amtrak may be able to sell down the line; they now have a roomette that they can sell to anyone before Denver as long as they're getting off by Denver, instead of being limited to just those passengers getting on at or after SLC. In an instance like this, I'd use it for pretty much anyone (maybe leave it as a "member-only" perk but don't require status to apply it.) Honestly, it may even be worth presenting this to coach passengers with an eligible itinerary at a reduced cost if there's no sleeping car passengers who would fit the slot - a $49-$99 upgrade could garner some extra revenue and, if done before boarding, would keep things simple for conductors and car attendants.

If it's just a quiet day on the train, Amtrak could simply upgrade passengers as needed, going through SE/S+/S queues and starting from shortest distance to longest distance (to keep inventory available down the road.) It could even be a perk to upgrade on a shorter trip - if a SE is traveling MSP - MKE and there's a ton of roomettes available, upgrade them 12 hours before departure to a roomette and let them experience it - who knows, they may decide in the future it's worth spending extra money even on a shorter trip. In this case, I'd say Amtrak should at least require Select status and/or have it available for a nominal upcharge.

It'd probably be a lot of programming, but it would earn goodwill and could result in Amtrak actually getting more money if implemented well. It also continues to reward loyal customers and encourages them to take Amtrak in the future.

Good ideas Jeb, but remember Loyalty programs have become Profit Centers for Companies,they don't care about Loyal Customers anymore!

jebr said:

If it's just a quiet day on the train, Amtrak could simply upgrade passengers as needed, going through SE/S+/S queues and starting from shortest distance to longest distance (to keep inventory available down the road.) It could even be a perk to upgrade on a shorter trip - if a SE is traveling MSP - MKE and there's a ton of roomettes available, upgrade them 12 hours before departure to a roomette and let them experience it - who knows, they may decide in the future it's worth spending extra money even on a shorter trip. In this case, I'd say Amtrak should at least require Select status and/or have it available for a nominal upcharge.

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I like your ideas, but question the rationale in the example I quoted. Anyone who has achieved SE probably has been in a roomette, unless he or she has only been in bedrooms on long distance trains or is off Acela so rarely that the future potential sales are negligible.

On the whole, I think your ideas for recognition make sense, even if the loyalty program is supposed to be a profit center. Your ideas, aside from startup (programming) cost, are essentially free to Amtrak.

My thought process on the "sleeper upgrade" was more pointed towards someone who may get a sleeper overnight, but not during the day if the entire train segment is during the day. (I'm often one of those people - especially since AGR 2.0 is based on the cash cost for the redemption, I'll downgrade to coach on day segments most of the time.) It's possible that a person could see the value of upgrading on those non-overnight segments once they experience the roomette during that setting. It's maybe a bit more of a stretch than my initial thought was, though.

Still, though, it rewards loyalty, at little additional cost to Amtrak (just the cost of the diner meals, assuming Amtrak could otherwise keep that stock for the next trip.) And the other ideas, implemented well, could result in added revenue for Amtrak. Loyalty, to an extent, is a profit center in and of itself - if a robust rewards program allows you to command higher prices or convince people from thinking about different options, then those "freebies" that look like they cost money actually make more money in the long run.

Granted, the bigger benefit is in the NEC. Amtrak should be proactively upgrading high-tier members to business class whenever possible. The one time I took BC on a NER (granted, on a 9 PM weekday train out of NYC) I had a maximum of five other people in the entire car with me. The rest of the cars seemed fairly full, although I don't recall them being stuffed to the gills. There's no reason Amtrak couldn't offer some upgrades to BC to high-tier members in that sort of instance.