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A little rain won't stop this train... video!


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#1 caravanman

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 07:56 AM

Mumbai India:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...gets-water-ride

 

Ed.



#2 Dave Van

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 08:51 AM

Free shower with train ride???


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#3 Metra Electric Rider

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 04:39 PM

Not an electric train I'm assuming?


SJ - Norra Stambanan, Nordvästra stambanan, Södra stambanan, Dalabanan

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#4 jis

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:10 AM

Looks like a "White Stallion" a.k.a WAP-7 25kV 50Hz electric leading that train, as seen far away before it hits the water.

 

In any case, whether diesel or electric, does not make a difference since they pretty much use the same trucks and electrical stuff in them. Well strictly speaking, not exactly the same between WAP-7 and WDP-4, but close enough. And EMUs of various makes merrily splash through those low level floods all the time around Mumbai and Kolkata anyway.



#5 Metra Electric Rider

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 12:38 PM

I would have thought that there would be concern about shorting out the electrical supply with water over the tracks - not the case? Now that I think of it, my own train line sometimes nearly gets water on the tracks at one location and it's never really caused any issue I've noticed.


SJ - Norra Stambanan, Nordvästra stambanan, Södra stambanan, Dalabanan

NSB- Bergensbanen, Kongsvingerbanen, Rørosbanen, Dovrebanen, Flåmsbana, Roa–Hønefossbanen

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#6 jis

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 02:26 PM

What is there to short in the electric supply? The track is the return circuit solidly grounded.

Any track circuit for signaling is a different matter. But they probably revert to using other means of some sort taking a big hit on throughput.


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#7 Metra Electric Rider

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 04:59 PM

Right, but wouldn't a half submerged train somehow, somewhere, find a path for currents to cross between the catenary and the track? Course a diesel train could drown out like a car, but a whole heck of a lot harder.


SJ - Norra Stambanan, Nordvästra stambanan, Södra stambanan, Dalabanan

NSB- Bergensbanen, Kongsvingerbanen, Rørosbanen, Dovrebanen, Flåmsbana, Roa–Hønefossbanen

Amtrak - Floridian, San Francisco Zephyr, Southwest Limited, Illini, State House


#8 jis

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 10:16 PM

Right, but wouldn't a half submerged train somehow, somewhere, find a path for currents to cross between the catenary and the track? Course a diesel train could drown out like a car, but a whole heck of a lot harder.

Clearly there is a significant lack of understanding of how diesel electric engines work that is evident from the comment above. The trucks and electric motors used to drive the wheels in the pure electric and diesel electric engines are similar, if not the same. Whatever will short out an electric engine will also short out a diesel electric engine. Typically it takes a foot or more of water above the rail.

There is no question of shorting out the catenary unless the water rises to the catenary. The motors in the trucks will short out much before that tripping the Motor feed breaker in the electric engine. Same will happen in the diesel electric engine.


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Edited by jis, 30 September 2017 - 07:43 PM.


#9 Metra Electric Rider

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 01:24 PM

I've seen crazy SUV's with the exhaust on the roof for going through water - if water can get it, you drown out combustion. The reason I ask is as soon as there is rain on our transit system (3rd rail, which is obviously a different beast due to proximity of power to power) the workmen immediately stop. It seems logical that throwing up that much water would create a short between the catenary and rails.

 

 

I would assume that if water got to the catenary the system would probably already be down (and I wonder how much spread in water that would be, shall we test it?).


SJ - Norra Stambanan, Nordvästra stambanan, Södra stambanan, Dalabanan

NSB- Bergensbanen, Kongsvingerbanen, Rørosbanen, Dovrebanen, Flåmsbana, Roa–Hønefossbanen

Amtrak - Floridian, San Francisco Zephyr, Southwest Limited, Illini, State House


#10 jis

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 01:37 PM

Well, clearly the whole thing about a short between catenary and rail does not happen in the real world from this kind of splashing water, since water being thrown up like this is not an uncommon occurrence. So no matter how logical it might seem, it does not happen.

 

Again, what will short if the electric current feed to the motor if the water gets more than about a foot above the rail head. That is what prevents operation, not catenary shorting with anything. Drowning out combustion is not an issue in diesel electric engines since again, the truck mounted electric motors will short out way before any water gets anywhere near anything combusting.


Edited by jis, 03 October 2017 - 01:37 PM.


#11 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 02:42 PM

I've seen crazy SUV's with the exhaust on the roof for going through water - if water can get it, you drown out combustion.


Are you sure you're not talking about raised intakes?

 

It seems logical that throwing up that much water would create a short between the catenary and rails.


I believe the water would need to be in a more contiguous mass to create a short between the catenary and the ground. However, you can see in the video that as the water accelerates it separates into billions of individual droplets and mist.




Exceptionally high voltages can ionize their own path to ground across substantial distances, but railway catenary systems don't operate at such extremes.



On the plus side I've never seen anything this absurd and ridiculous on an Amtrak platform. Despite the camera moving away from the action you can tell all of those people at the station would have been drenched with diluted sewage water and I'd be absolutely livid.

Which is why I leave Indian visits to people who are far more accepting and forgiving than I am.

htrh_darth_vader_rolling_luggage_inuse.j

Edited by Devil's Advocate, 03 October 2017 - 02:49 PM.

We've got provisions and lots of beer. The key word is survival on the new frontier. 


#12 jis

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 03:57 PM

I guess you have not seen that video that was going around of an Amtrak Empire Corridor train throwing up a blizzard snow as it plowed into the platform at Rhinecliff. :D

 

 

Similar ones have been around at various wayside stations on the NEC with Acelas and Regionals blowing by at 125 and higher through snow covered tracks by platforms.

 

Time to avoid everywhere where higher speed trains run through snow too I guess and leave it to to others to travel there eh? :P


Edited by jis, 03 October 2017 - 04:03 PM.


#13 caravanman

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 04:20 PM

The voltages are only there relative to the two connections, positive and negative. I have seen guys service our national grid lines suspended from helicopters. As they are in free space, although the lines are at many thousands of volts relative to "earth" they are unaffected. 

I guess most of the water is thrown out in the video at 45 degrees, so not much will impact on the overhead wires.

A small amount of water will not cause problems, as the systems still work in the rain.

I remember once walking in the rail yards here in UK when employed by British Rail... A foggy, damp drizzly day, I was holding my umbrella up... I became aware of a crackling static noise above my head and soon decided it might be better to get wet than to get roasted!

 

Funny enough, I am off to India again in a weeks time. Probably stand well back from the platform edges!

 

Ed.



#14 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 04:32 PM

Never saw that Amtrak video, pretty impressive visuals to be honest, but this time my initial reaction is different.

1. Being hit with dry powdery snow would be annoying but less disruptive than being drenched in diluted sewer water.

2. Even if you were hit chances are your clothes and belongings would survive the event and you could continue your journey.

3. Most platforms in the US aren't jammed to the gills limiting opportunities to duck or dive out of the way.

4. People who weren't completely sucked into their phones were able to simply move out of the way and escape unharmed.

5. Unlike the sewer water deluge I'm actually tempted to go and watch phone zombies get smacked around by the Amtrak SnowSlam™.

Perhaps I'm being unfair to India, but to me these are two different events. If there's a video of Amtrak drenching people with grimy liquid then I'd agree there's really no difference.

Edited by Devil's Advocate, 03 October 2017 - 04:33 PM.

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#15 jis

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 08:03 PM

I was not being as serious about all this as you appear to be taking it For example, I was not implying they are the same thing. So indeed I do agree with you.


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