Atlanta to Fort Worth new Amtrak Service study

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DSS&A

Lead Service Attendant
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
422
Exercising the option on the Viewliner 2 order would also help.

As Neroden is fond of pointing out, coaches are a bigger issue. The only bright spot is the ability to use Superliner equipment if this is stand alone service....if some of them are freed up.
 
5.7 million people live in metro Atlanta (9th largest in US) and 7.2 million people live in metro Dallas/Fort Worth (4th largest US). Less than 800 miles separate the city pairs, so it is an acceptable distance for a day time train. There, study complete (besides, haven't there been a few already?).

There have been numerous studies that show passenger expansion in this country is worth the investment, yet nothing ever happens. A few years later, another study is done that shows the same thing. Maybe it's time to study the consulting companies doing these studies, and see who is lining their pockets?
 
Hi,

If the plan is to upgrade the tracks to 79mph, the trackwork and PTC improvements will take at lease two years to complete construction. This two year window allows time to acquire equipment for this service. Rehabilitated equipment, such as the California Comet coaches, is possible with a two year window. MBTA has about 40 MBB comet-type coaches and/or cab-coaches in storage. Recently reported movement in the Nippon Sharyo contract may result in new equipment in about 2-1/2 years which would free-up passenger cars.
 
Hi,

If the plan is to upgrade the tracks to 79mph, the trackwork and PTC improvements will take at lease two years to complete construction. This two year window allows time to acquire equipment for this service. Rehabilitated equipment, such as the California Comet coaches, is possible with a two year window. MBTA has about 40 MBB comet-type coaches and/or cab-coaches in storage. Recently reported movement in the Nippon Sharyo contract may result in new equipment in about 2-1/2 years which would free-up passenger cars.
Maybe people like Siemens or Brightline could get into the business of leasing out equipment.

If the service turns out to be a success, Amtrak or the states can buy the equipment.

If not it returns to Florida in time for the second phase, when more equipment will be needed.
 
This is just another study that will join the countless dozens of other studies; cash in someone's pockets and nothing else. 10 years from now nothing will have been done. In my area, at least a dozen studies have been done on extending the Heartland Flyer north and we are no closer to that now then we were about 10 years ago when these studies began.....
 
This is just another study that will join the countless dozens of other studies; cash in someone's pockets and nothing else. 10 years from now nothing will have been done. In my area, at least a dozen studies have been done on extending the Heartland Flyer north and we are no closer to that now then we were about 10 years ago when these studies began.....
Generally true, but at least they started a Thruway Service to/from OKC so one can connect to the Chief.
Most "studies" end up in file cabinets while contractors take in the gravy!
 
Maybe this train could be continued to New York as the long awaited 2nd NYP-ATL train.

It would be hard to figure out where to put the overnight segments on such a route, however.

One option would be to depart DFW at night and travel overnight for an early morning arrival in Jackson. The train could then make it up to Raleigh by midnight and Washington in the early morning, with a mid-morning arrival in New York. The overnight segments would be Dallas-Jackson and Raleigh-Washington.

Another possible option I can think of is a late morning departure from DFW with a late night arrival at Meridian. The train could arrive Atlanta in the early morning and make it to New York around midnight.

If the train is run just Fort Worth to Atlanta, it would likely be a full day non-overnight train similar to the Carolinian or Crescent. Due to the early departures and late arrivals at Atlanta and Forth Worth, connections would be near impossible on either end. Theoretically, the train could continue to New York, but it would follow the Crescent by only a few hours. It could serve the Atlanta-Raleigh market, but Charlotte would still have middle of the night service. If the train sat in Atlanta or Charlotte for an hour or two, it could potentially serve both at relatively reasonable times. If this option was chosen, it would likely make the most sense to have this train replace the Carolinian north of Charlotte. Compared to option 2, this train would have a slower schedule and the Greenville/Spartanburg area would once again be neglected, but would stop in Birmingham at a reasonable time, not need a new slot north of Charlotte, and serve New York earlier at night/later in the morning.

As others have previously stated, a new station in Atlanta is likely necessary for this new service, although a run-through train (especially with minimal dwell time) may be less of an issue.

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Several options for this service as a phased implementation.

1. . Make the train part of Crescent and split train at Meridian. That would add capacity to the Crescent which is sorely needed ATL <> NEC. No station work at the present terrible ATL station.

2. At same time ( now ) start construction on the Atlanta station with a loop. Crescent can travel to downtown in 5 minutes each way from Howell.

3. during station construction get the 2 CSX and 2 ( or 3 ) parallel tracks from Howell to new station considered as one 4 or 5 main track for use by both CSX and NS. Add a full 4 or 5 track interlocking close to the new station. That will allow Crescent to avoid the Howell congestion on eastern most track for trains to / from CLT and to / from BHM on western most track. Station will need a loop for North to North arrivals and departures. That arrangement will probably have a positive effect for OTP. CSX and NS freights would also avoid much of the Howell congestion. Not a final answer but intermin until funds for the necessary flyovers can be built at Howell.

4. If #1 is very successful ( 90% chance will ) run the proposed day train NYP or WASH - Richmond- Raleigh - CLT - ATL day train and extend it to FTW.

5. As usual must get the necessary equipment .
 
Just have the Crescent go to FTW. Have a stub train run from Meridian to NOL. The studies show ridership drops off south of ATL, this would cure that. This train would connect one the of the fastest growing areas in the country directly to the Northeast instead of a change at CUS.
 
Stub train Meridian <> NOL is certainly a possibility. Run regular Crescent to FTW. Just get the equipment to do it. Of course running equipment another day brings on additional problems cleaning and terminal maintenance.
 
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As Neroden is fond of pointing out, coaches are a bigger issue. The only bright spot is the ability to use Superliner equipment if this is stand alone service....if some of them are freed up.

How we going to be able to service/store trains in ATL again?

Maybe this train could be continued to New York as the long awaited 2nd NYP-ATL train.
We can see these plans don't work together...
 
Didn't Amtrak do a study just a few years ago on a run between Meridian, MS and Dallas, TX that would connect with the existing train between NOL and NYP?

Why a second study now? I assume the results of the earlier study would be just as applicable now ...
 
Many years ago SOU RR had thru service from NYP - DAL by way of Pelican to Roanoke - Knoxville - Chattanooga - BHM Left BHM about 2000 and connected to IC at Meridian. SOU connected at BHM from ATL and east.
 
This is just another study that will join the countless dozens of other studies; cash in someone's pockets and nothing else. 10 years from now nothing will have been done. In my area, at least a dozen studies have been done on extending the Heartland Flyer north and we are no closer to that now then we were about 10 years ago when these studies began.....
I agree. [sarcasm on] Tons of studies that recommend things. No money is allocated. A grant is requested for another study and local congressperson slips it into funding bill as one of the bribes perks he is allowed to give out get him re-elected. A new consultant is hired who knows someone who knows the local officials and a sole source procurement is made for the services. Onto the shelf on top of the last one, the new report is placed. [sarcasm off]
 
Exercising the option on the Viewliner 2 order would also help.

As Neroden is fond of pointing out, coaches are a bigger issue. The only bright spot is the ability to use Superliner equipment if this is stand alone service....if some of them are freed up.
Wait a minute - from where would Superliners be freed up?

Richard Anderson alluded to equipment utilization, but what exactly are we looking at here?
 
Exercising the option on the Viewliner 2 order would also help.

As Neroden is fond of pointing out, coaches are a bigger issue. The only bright spot is the ability to use Superliner equipment if this is stand alone service....if some of them are freed up.
Wait a minute - from where would Superliners be freed up?

Richard Anderson alluded to equipment utilization, but what exactly are we looking at here?

Let's be honest. If this actually occurs, it will take years to finish. By that time, it is probable the bi-level turned single level cars will be in the picture. That should free up equipment.
 
Exercising the option on the Viewliner 2 order would also help.

As Neroden is fond of pointing out, coaches are a bigger issue. The only bright spot is the ability to use Superliner equipment if this is stand alone service....if some of them are freed up.
Wait a minute - from where would Superliners be freed up?

Richard Anderson alluded to equipment utilization, but what exactly are we looking at here?
Let's be honest. If this actually occurs, it will take years to finish. By that time, it is probable the bi-level turned single level cars will be in the picture. That should free up equipment.
You could free up more Superliners by discontinuing the Sunset Limited. It would crush some folks, and some cities would be annoyed they wasted money on a new station or platform that will never see another scheduled passenger train, but out of all the Western trains Amtrak might cut the SL route would probably generate the least amount of blowback. The SL route also seems to receive the least enthusiastic reviews and recommendations here on the forum. It would suck to lose the route forever but maybe that hardware could be used to strengthen another more important route that was in jeopardy. It may also be possible to use the discontinuation of the Sunset Limited as a bargaining chip to help improve the schedules of one or more other routes that make use of UP tracks. Don't get me wrong, if it's possible to make the SL a daily operation with improved scheduling I'm all for it, but if that's not possible then perhaps there are other better ways to use it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Exercising the option on the Viewliner 2 order would also help.

As Neroden is fond of pointing out, coaches are a bigger issue. The only bright spot is the ability to use Superliner equipment if this is stand alone service....if some of them are freed up.
Wait a minute - from where would Superliners be freed up?

Richard Anderson alluded to equipment utilization, but what exactly are we looking at here?
Let's be honest. If this actually occurs, it will take years to finish. By that time, it is probable the bi-level turned single level cars will be in the picture. That should free up equipment.
You could free up more Superliners by discontinuing the Sunset Limited. It would crush some folks, and some cities would be annoyed they wasted money on a new station or platform that will never see another scheduled passenger train, but out of all the Western trains Amtrak might cut the SL route would probably generate the least amount of blowback. The SL route also seems to receive the least enthusiastic reviews and recommendations here on the forum. It would suck to lose the route forever but maybe that hardware could be used to strengthen another more important route that was in jeopardy. It may also be possible to use the discontinuation of the Sunset Limited as a bargaining chip to help improve the schedules of one or more other routes that make use of UP tracks. Don't get me wrong, if it's possible to make the SL a daily operation with improved scheduling I'm all for it, but if that's not possible then perhaps there are other better ways to use it.
Be careful what you wish for as you may get it.

Killing the SL would also have repurcussions for the SL-East. Without any meaningful connections at San Antonio. a residual New Orleans to San Antonio train would make far lesss sense, and the momentum for taking that train to Florida would be crippled.

On the other hand, in absence of a SL, maybe there might be a basis for extening the Texas Eagle toi somewhere like Corpus Christi or even into Mexico.
 
Exercising the option on the Viewliner 2 order would also help.
As Neroden is fond of pointing out, coaches are a bigger issue. The only bright spot is the ability to use Superliner equipment if this is stand alone service....if some of them are freed up.
Wait a minute - from where would Superliners be freed up?

Richard Anderson alluded to equipment utilization, but what exactly are we looking at here?
Let's be honest. If this actually occurs, it will take years to finish. By that time, it is probable the bi-level turned single level cars will be in the picture. That should free up equipment.
You could free up more Superliners by discontinuing the Sunset Limited. It would crush some folks, and some cities would be annoyed they wasted money on a new station or platform that will never see another scheduled passenger train, but out of all the Western trains Amtrak might cut the SL route would probably generate the least amount of blowback. The SL route also seems to receive the least enthusiastic reviews and recommendations here on the forum. It would suck to lose the route forever but maybe that hardware could be used to strengthen another more important route that was in jeopardy. It may also be possible to use the discontinuation of the Sunset Limited as a bargaining chip to help improve the schedules of one or more other routes that make use of UP tracks. Don't get me wrong, if it's possible to make the SL a daily operation with improved scheduling I'm all for it, but if that's not possible then perhaps there are other better ways to use it.
Be careful what you wish for as you may get it.

Killing the SL would also have repurcussions for the SL-East. Without any meaningful connections at San Antonio. a residual New Orleans to San Antonio train would make far lesss sense, and the momentum for taking that train to Florida would be crippled.

On the other hand, in absence of a SL, maybe there might be a basis for extening the Texas Eagle toi somewhere like Corpus Christi or even into Mexico.
I generally agree with you that the route east of San Antonio is helped by the section west of there, but the SL is essentially irrelevant to the Gulf Coast train as they will be separate from each other without a same-day connection.
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