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Atlanta to Fort Worth new Amtrak Service study


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#1 DSS&A

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 06:06 PM

A new study is being worked on about starting a new intercity passenger train service between Atlanta, Meridian, Dallas and Fort Worth. The timing of this study is good with Atlanta starting to consider the possibility of a new intercity passenger train station. Exercising the option on the Viewliner 2 order would also help. Here's a link to an article.

http://www.masstrans...hrough-meridian

#2 Thirdrail7

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 06:45 PM

 Exercising the option on the Viewliner 2 order would also help.

 

 

As Neroden is fond of pointing out, coaches are a bigger issue. The only bright spot is the ability to use Superliner equipment if this is stand alone service....if some of them are freed up.


They say laughter is the best medicine. Obviously they never posted on AU.


#3 John Bobinyec

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 06:58 PM

If it's standalone service, rolling stock, other than Amtrak's, can be used, a la Piedmonts.

 

jb


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#4 chrsjrcj

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 08:52 PM

5.7 million people live in metro Atlanta (9th largest in US) and 7.2 million people live in metro Dallas/Fort Worth (4th largest US). Less than 800 miles separate the city pairs, so it is an acceptable distance for a day time train. There, study complete (besides, haven't there been a few already?). 

 

There have been numerous studies that show passenger expansion in this country is worth the investment, yet nothing ever happens. A few years later, another study is done that shows the same thing. Maybe it's time to study the consulting companies doing these studies, and see who is lining their pockets?



#5 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 08:54 PM

How we going to be able to service/store trains in ATL again?


Trains Traveled:
 
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Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 

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#6 John Bobinyec

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:11 AM

It'll have to wait until a new station and service facility are built.

 

jb


Edited by John Bobinyec, 07 September 2017 - 08:00 AM.

LDS Been On:

 

Old: Phoebe Snow (EL), Montrealer (AT), Laurentian (D&H)

RBBB: St. Petersburg - W. Palm Beach, Lakeland - Atlanta, Baltimore - NYC, Rochester, NY - Hartford, Albuquerque - Salt Lake City, Denver - Chicago

Modern: Ocean (VIA), Silver Star, Capitol Limited, Texas Eagle, Autotrain, Carolinian, Southwest Chief, California Zephyr, Lake Shore Limited

 


#7 DSS&A

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:37 AM

Hi,
If the plan is to upgrade the tracks to 79mph, the trackwork and PTC improvements will take at lease two years to complete construction. This two year window allows time to acquire equipment for this service. Rehabilitated equipment, such as the California Comet coaches, is possible with a two year window. MBTA has about 40 MBB comet-type coaches and/or cab-coaches in storage. Recently reported movement in the Nippon Sharyo contract may result in new equipment in about 2-1/2 years which would free-up passenger cars.

#8 cirdan

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:54 AM

Hi,
If the plan is to upgrade the tracks to 79mph, the trackwork and PTC improvements will take at lease two years to complete construction. This two year window allows time to acquire equipment for this service. Rehabilitated equipment, such as the California Comet coaches, is possible with a two year window. MBTA has about 40 MBB comet-type coaches and/or cab-coaches in storage. Recently reported movement in the Nippon Sharyo contract may result in new equipment in about 2-1/2 years which would free-up passenger cars.

 

Maybe people like Siemens or Brightline could get into the business of leasing out equipment.

 

If the service turns out to be a success, Amtrak or the states can buy the equipment.

 

If not it returns to Florida in time for the second phase, when more equipment will be needed.



#9 OlympianHiawatha

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:20 AM

This is just another study that will join the countless dozens of other studies; cash in someone's pockets and nothing else.  10 years from now nothing will have been done.  In my area, at least a dozen studies have been done on extending the Heartland Flyer north and we are no closer to that now then we were about 10 years ago when these studies began.....



#10 Bob Dylan

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:25 AM

This is just another study that will join the countless dozens of other studies; cash in someone's pockets and nothing else.  10 years from now nothing will have been done.  In my area, at least a dozen studies have been done on extending the Heartland Flyer north and we are no closer to that now then we were about 10 years ago when these studies began.....

Generally true, but at least they started a Thruway Service to/from OKC so one can connect to the Chief.😉

Most "studies" end up in file cabinets while contractors take in the gravy!😥
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Yet there isn't a train I wouldn't take,No matter where its going!.." -Edna St. Vincent Millay

#11 brianpmcdonnell17

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:37 AM

Maybe this train could be continued to New York as the long awaited 2nd NYP-ATL train.
It would be hard to figure out where to put the overnight segments on such a route, however.

One option would be to depart DFW at night and travel overnight for an early morning arrival in Jackson. The train could then make it up to Raleigh by midnight and Washington in the early morning, with a mid-morning arrival in New York. The overnight segments would be Dallas-Jackson and Raleigh-Washington.

Another possible option I can think of is a late morning departure from DFW with a late night arrival at Meridian. The train could arrive Atlanta in the early morning and make it to New York around midnight.

If the train is run just Fort Worth to Atlanta, it would likely be a full day non-overnight train similar to the Carolinian or Crescent. Due to the early departures and late arrivals at Atlanta and Forth Worth, connections would be near impossible on either end. Theoretically, the train could continue to New York, but it would follow the Crescent by only a few hours. It could serve the Atlanta-Raleigh market, but Charlotte would still have middle of the night service. If the train sat in Atlanta or Charlotte for an hour or two, it could potentially serve both at relatively reasonable times. If this option was chosen, it would likely make the most sense to have this train replace the Carolinian north of Charlotte. Compared to option 2, this train would have a slower schedule and the Greenville/Spartanburg area would once again be neglected, but would stop in Birmingham at a reasonable time, not need a new slot north of Charlotte, and serve New York earlier at night/later in the morning.

As others have previously stated, a new station in Atlanta is likely necessary for this new service, although a run-through train (especially with minimal dwell time) may be less of an issue.

Sent from my SM-J327P using Amtrak Forum mobile app
Trains travelled: Capitol Limited WAS-CHI, Cardinal CHI-WAS, Carolinian CLT-RGH, Coast Starlight SJC-LAX, Crescent BAL-ATL, Empire Builder MSP-CHI, Empire Service NYP-NFL+NYG-YNY, Lake Shore Limited BOS-ALB, Maple Leaf ALB-NYP, Northeast Regional FBG-RVR+WAS-BOS, Pacific Surfliner LAX-ANA, Pennsylvanian NYP-PGH, Piedmont RGH-DNC, Silver Meteor ORL-NYP, Silver Star FTL-WAS, 2016 Autumn Express NYP-HAR-NYP

Upcoming New Routes: Lake Shore Limited NYP-CHI (December), California Zephyr CHI-RIC (December), Coast Starlight SJC-SEA (December), Empire Builder SEA-MSP (January).

Non Amtrak: Atlanta Streetcar, Caltrain, CTA, DC Streetcar, Hudson-Bergen Light Rail, LIRR, MARC, MARTA, MBTA Subway, Metra, Metrolink, Metro-North, METRO Transit Light Rail, Miami Metrorail, Muni Metro, NJT Commuter Rail, North Star, NYC Subway, PATH, Pittsburgh Light Rail, River Line (NJT), SEPTA Regional Rail, SEPTA Subway, South Shore Line, Sunrail, Staten Island Railway, TECO Streetcar, Tri-Rail, Washington Metro

#12 west point

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 01:52 PM

Several options for this service as a phased implementation.

1.   .  Make the train part of Crescent and split train at Meridian.  That would add capacity to the Crescent which is sorely needed ATL <> NEC.  No station work at the present terrible ATL station. 

2.  At same time ( now ) start construction on the Atlanta station with a loop.  Crescent can travel to downtown in 5 minutes each way from Howell.

3.  during station construction get the 2 CSX and 2 ( or 3 ) parallel tracks from Howell to new station considered as one 4 or 5  main track for use by both CSX and NS.  Add a full 4 or 5 track interlocking close to the new station.  That will allow Crescent to avoid the Howell congestion on eastern most track for trains to / from CLT and to / from BHM on western most track.  Station will need a loop for North to North arrivals and departures.  That arrangement will probably have a positive effect for OTP.  CSX and NS freights would also avoid much of the Howell congestion.  Not a final answer but intermin until funds for the necessary flyovers can be built at Howell.

4.  If #1 is very successful  ( 90% chance will )  run the proposed day train NYP or WASH - Richmond- Raleigh - CLT - ATL day train and extend it to FTW.

5. As usual must get the necessary equipment .   



#13 frequentflyer

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 02:18 PM

Just have the Crescent go to FTW. Have a stub train run from Meridian to NOL.  The studies show ridership drops off south of ATL, this would cure that. This train would connect one the of the fastest growing areas in the country directly to the Northeast instead of a change at CUS.



#14 west point

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:10 PM

Stub train Meridian <> NOL is certainly a possibility.  Run regular Crescent to FTW.  Just get  the equipment to do it.  Of course running equipment another day brings on additional problems cleaning and terminal maintenance.


Edited by west point, 07 September 2017 - 03:13 PM.


#15 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:17 PM

 

 

 

 

As Neroden is fond of pointing out, coaches are a bigger issue. The only bright spot is the ability to use Superliner equipment if this is stand alone service....if some of them are freed up.

 

 

 

How we going to be able to service/store trains in ATL again?

 

 

Maybe this train could be continued to New York as the long awaited 2nd NYP-ATL train.
 

 

We can see these plans don't work together...


Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 

https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/

 


#16 brianpmcdonnell17

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:20 PM

The main issue I see with a branch off the Crescent is the hours. The schedule would have to be intentionally lengthened to avoid middle of the night service in Dallas and Fort Worth.

Sent from my SM-J327P using Amtrak Forum mobile app
Trains travelled: Capitol Limited WAS-CHI, Cardinal CHI-WAS, Carolinian CLT-RGH, Coast Starlight SJC-LAX, Crescent BAL-ATL, Empire Builder MSP-CHI, Empire Service NYP-NFL+NYG-YNY, Lake Shore Limited BOS-ALB, Maple Leaf ALB-NYP, Northeast Regional FBG-RVR+WAS-BOS, Pacific Surfliner LAX-ANA, Pennsylvanian NYP-PGH, Piedmont RGH-DNC, Silver Meteor ORL-NYP, Silver Star FTL-WAS, 2016 Autumn Express NYP-HAR-NYP

Upcoming New Routes: Lake Shore Limited NYP-CHI (December), California Zephyr CHI-RIC (December), Coast Starlight SJC-SEA (December), Empire Builder SEA-MSP (January).

Non Amtrak: Atlanta Streetcar, Caltrain, CTA, DC Streetcar, Hudson-Bergen Light Rail, LIRR, MARC, MARTA, MBTA Subway, Metra, Metrolink, Metro-North, METRO Transit Light Rail, Miami Metrorail, Muni Metro, NJT Commuter Rail, North Star, NYC Subway, PATH, Pittsburgh Light Rail, River Line (NJT), SEPTA Regional Rail, SEPTA Subway, South Shore Line, Sunrail, Staten Island Railway, TECO Streetcar, Tri-Rail, Washington Metro

#17 chakk

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:22 PM

Didn't Amtrak do a study just a few years ago on a run between Meridian, MS and Dallas, TX that would connect with the existing train between NOL and NYP?

Why a second study now? I assume the results of the earlier study would be just as applicable now ...

#18 west point

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:42 PM

Many years ago SOU RR had thru service from NYP - DAL by way of Pelican to  Roanoke - Knoxville - Chattanooga - BHM  Left  BHM about 2000  and connected to IC at Meridian. SOU connected at BHM from ATL and east.



#19 me_little_me

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:50 PM

This is just another study that will join the countless dozens of other studies; cash in someone's pockets and nothing else.  10 years from now nothing will have been done.  In my area, at least a dozen studies have been done on extending the Heartland Flyer north and we are no closer to that now then we were about 10 years ago when these studies began.....

I agree. [sarcasm on] Tons of studies that recommend things. No money is allocated. A grant is requested for another study and local congressperson slips it into funding bill as one of the bribes perks he is allowed to give out get him re-elected. A new consultant is hired who knows someone who knows the local officials and a sole source procurement is made for the services. Onto the shelf on top of the last one, the new report is placed. [sarcasm off]



#20 A Voice

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 04:14 PM

 

 Exercising the option on the Viewliner 2 order would also help.

 

 

As Neroden is fond of pointing out, coaches are a bigger issue. The only bright spot is the ability to use Superliner equipment if this is stand alone service....if some of them are freed up.

 

 

Wait a minute - from where would Superliners be freed up?  

 

Richard Anderson alluded to equipment utilization, but what exactly are we looking at here?    






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