Amtrak routes with diverging branches

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Nov 9, 2016
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Portsmouth, VA
I have a question regarding Amtrak routes which have diverging branches. Unless I'm forgetting any, these include the Empire Builder, Lakeshore Limited and Silver Star.

Does Amtrak run different train consists per route depending on that train's final destination? Or is it only one consist that goes through equipment changes at the point where it branches off (thus creating separate consists which serve the various branches)?

I hope my question isn't confusing!
 
In the case of the westbound Empire Builder, the consist is "split" at Spokane into two separate consists (including the two locomotives) into trains 7 and 27 to continue to Seattle and Portland respectively. Train 7/8 has the diner while train 27/28 just has the sightseer lounge. The baggage car is on 7/8 as well. The opposite for eastbound #8 and 28...the two trains are combined into a single "complete" train at Spokane for the rest of the run to Chicago.

The Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle is a little different. The two "through" cars (422 sleeper and coach) are removed from the SL at San Antonio and coupled onto the Texas Eagle #22 to continue to Chicago. These two cars appear in the reservation system as Texas Eagle (422/421) for the entire LA to Chicago journey regardless of whether they are on the SL or the TE. The SL and TE are each separate complete trains with the two cars moved from one train to the other.

EDIT/add: In the case of the Empire Builder, the cars and the two locomotives in the consist are divided between the two routes (Seattle and Portland) while the Sunset Limited and Texas Eagle consists are each complete and are not divided. Two cars, a coach and a sleeper, are simply moved from one train to the other.
 
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The Lake Shore Limited's split operates much the same as the Empire Builder's. The Silver Star runs as one continuous consist over the entire route, although it does reverse direction between Tampa and Auburndale.

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A long time ago the Florida trains used to split/combine in Auburndale FL. Auburndale wasn't a stop it was just where the tracks from Tampa and Miami met. Sometime in the late 80's or early 90's the split/combine operation was moved to Jacksonville and when the Silver Palm was introduced it was eliminated all together.

The link is a video of the Auburndale operation.
 
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Nice Video, thanks for sharing!

Nice to see the mixed Consist with the old Reliable P-40s,Amfleets and Heritage Cars, especially the Slumber Coach!

All the switching except for those involving PVs and the 321/322 Coach in St.Louis, that I have experienced on LD Cars in the past 20 years, has taken place in the dark.
 
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All the switching except for those involving PVs and the 321/322 Coach in St.Louis, that I have experienced on LD Cars in the past 20 years, has taken place in the dark.
If Albany is any indication of how the process goes for the rest of the system, that's probably for the best, that way you don't have to bang your head in frustration at how long the process takes.
 
All the switching except for those involving PVs and the 321/322 Coach in St.Louis, that I have experienced on LD Cars in the past 20 years, has taken place in the dark.
If Albany is any indication of how the process goes for the rest of the system, that's probably for the best, that way you don't have to bang your head in frustration at how long the process takes.
Don't tell the people along the Pennsylvanian route still waiting for the CL-Pennsylvanian hookup. Or the people who lost the Desert Wind/Pioneer.
 
@Philly Amtrak Fan:

I looked at the route map for the Silver Service on the Amtrak site and I noticed that the Star and Meteor diverge around Winter Haven; the Star goes to Tampa and then apparently reverses direction and meets back up with the Meteor route to continue on to Miami.

At least the way I understand it............
 
All the switching except for those involving PVs and the 321/322 Coach in St.Louis, that I have experienced on LD Cars in the past 20 years, has taken place in the dark.
If Albany is any indication of how the process goes for the rest of the system, that's probably for the best, that way you don't have to bang your head in frustration at how long the process takes.
Don't tell the people along the Pennsylvanian route still waiting for the CL-Pennsylvanian hookup. Or the people who lost the Desert Wind/Pioneer.
I can't believe I was the one who let you bring up the Pennsylvania topic this time.
 
@Philly Amtrak Fan:

I looked at the route map for the Silver Service on the Amtrak site and I noticed that the Star and Meteor diverge around Winter Haven; the Star goes to Tampa and then apparently reverses direction and meets back up with the Meteor route to continue on to Miami.

At least the way I understand it............
The location where they diverge is Auburndale.
The Star from Auburndale goes to Lakeland (for arriving passengers only), then does "the dogleg", then back into Tampa, then returns to Lakeland (for departing passengers only) then returns to the Auburndale wye to continue north or south. From there, except thru NC & SC, it uses the same tracks as the Meteor. The connection from the Meteor to Lakeland & Tampa is via an Ambus at Orlando. The Meteor turns south or north at the Auburndale wye, bypassing Lakeland and Tampa.

Interesting note: The split/connecting occurring at Auburndale was the only place this happened not at a station stop.
 
@Philly Amtrak Fan:

I looked at the route map for the Silver Service on the Amtrak site and I noticed that the Star and Meteor diverge around Winter Haven; the Star goes to Tampa and then apparently reverses direction and meets back up with the Meteor route to continue on to Miami.

At least the way I understand it............
The location where they diverge is Auburndale.
The Star from Auburndale goes to Lakeland (for arriving passengers only), then does "the dogleg", then back into Tampa, then returns to Lakeland (for departing passengers only) then returns to the Auburndale wye to continue north or south. From there, except thru NC & SC, it uses the same tracks as the Meteor. The connection from the Meteor to Lakeland & Tampa is via an Ambus at Orlando. The Meteor turns south or north at the Auburndale wye, bypassing Lakeland and Tampa.

Interesting note: The split/connecting occurring at Auburndale was the only place this happened not at a station stop.
The two routes also have slightly different stopping patterns. The SM stops in Fredericksburg, VA and Jesup, GA while the SS does not. On the contrary, the SS stops in Okeechobee, FL while the SM does not.
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If you want to add a few more routes where trains go for long stretches and then go off to another direction, consider the Vermonter, NER until New Haven, or Adirondack and Ethan Allen which are Empire Service until Schenectady, and further split again later on at Ft Ed. Maybe include the LSL which goes as far as Depew outside of Buffalo before heading for Chicago. Keystones NYP-PHL as NEC before turning...
 
The SM & SS may have different stopping patterns, but except as noted (in NC & SC) they both use the same tracks. It may stop at Jessup, but it goes past the station.

You could use the same reasoning for the northbound LSL and the Empire Service trains between NYP & SYR. The LSL does not stop at Poughkeepsie, Rhinecliff, Hudson, Amsterdam or Rome, but it goes on the same tracks thru the station stops.
 
The SM & SS may have different stopping patterns, but except as noted (in NC & SC) they both use the same tracks. It may stop at Jessup, but it goes past the station.

You could use the same reasoning for the northbound LSL and the Empire Service trains between NYP & SYR. The LSL does not stop at Poughkeepsie, Rhinecliff, Hudson, Amsterdam or Rome, but it goes on the same tracks thru the station stops.
I know, I was just noting it as a difference between the trains. I have actually been on a southbound SS that stopped at Jesup. We were multiple hours late to the point that the SM was ahead of us, and apparently a passenger had somehow been left behind at the station, so we stopped to pick him/her up. If it was the passenger's fault that the train was missed, then Amtrak really went out of their way to accommodate him/her by making an unscheduled stop.
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The Crescent used to break off in Birmingham and become the "Gulf Breeze" Birmingham to Mobile.

The City of New Orleans would split off a car or 2 in Centralia and become the "River Cities" to St. Louis where more coaches would be added and it would continue to Kansas City.
 
In the case of the Silver Meteor/Star, it really isn't "diverging branches", it's two separate routes which overlap. You don't have to worry about the switching operations of the LSL/EB and you get twice the service along points they have in common. If they actually ran two LSL's, one for NYP and one for BOS, then SYR would have two trains to CHI and a train to BOS without the hassle of switching in ALB. In reality the diverging branch is merely a compromise. In the fantasy world there would be a separate "New England States" and a "20th Century Limited" so you wouldn't have to deal with the hassle of the switching operation (just like there would be separate a Broadway Limited and a separate Capitol Limited). But it's still better to have a split Capitol/Pennsylvanian and LSL/Boston leg than force people to transfer (well at least for the people forced to transfer).
 
Thanks for the info.

Until I took my trip to Orlando, I had assumed that the southbound Silver Star terminated in Tampa, and the southbound Silver Meteor terminated in Miami. When I was waiting at ORL (on July 16) to board the northbound SS to go to RVR, I learned that the reason for its 3 hour delay was because of an issue in Miami the day before. I thought to myself "I didn't realize that the Star served Miami".

Up till then, I thought that between Auburndale and Tampa was exclusively SS and between Auburndale and Miami was exclusively SM.
 
Thanks for the info.

Until I took my trip to Orlando, I had assumed that the southbound Silver Star terminated in Tampa, and the southbound Silver Meteor terminated in Miami. When I was waiting at ORL (on July 16) to board the northbound SS to go to RVR, I learned that the reason for its 3 hour delay was because of an issue in Miami the day before. I thought to myself "I didn't realize that the Star served Miami".

Up till then, I thought that between Auburndale and Tampa was exclusively SS and between Auburndale and Miami was exclusively SM.
Yeah, very few passengers actually continue through Tampa on the SS. However, ridership is still high south of Tampa as there is a lot of local passengers. A few years ago, I researched the major city stations across the country to see which stations had the highest ridership per train (total ridership/total number of trains). The only exclusively LD station that was close to Tampa was Denver, largely because the SS operates as though it is two trains that terminate at Tampa. Most times I ride the SS it seems less than 25% of passengers continue through Tampa.
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The SM & SS may have different stopping patterns, but except as noted (in NC & SC) they both use the same tracks. It may stop at Jessup, but it goes past the station.

You could use the same reasoning for the northbound LSL and the Empire Service trains between NYP & SYR. The LSL does not stop at Poughkeepsie, Rhinecliff, Hudson, Amsterdam or Rome, but it goes on the same tracks thru the station stops.
Just to be super nitpicky, according to this timetable, the LSL stops at Rhinecliff and Poughkeepsie. Your larger point stands, of course.

Ainamkartma
 
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