Carolinian 80 (8/15/2017) Trouble

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According to a post on Train Orders, 80 had a hotbox near Petersburg, Va. Evidently, it was the second head car. After a ton of delays, the rear 5 cars were tacked onto the end of 90, The bad car was set out, and the engine with one car continued north.

I can't for the life of me figure out why they just didn't set the bad car out, put the train back together and go. Anybody know why they added the cars to the rear of 90?

Thanks,

jb
 
According to a post on Train Orders, 80 had a hotbox near Petersburg, Va. Evidently, it was the second head car. After a ton of delays, the rear 5 cars were tacked onto the end of 90, The bad car was set out, and the engine with one car continued north.

I can't for the life of me figure out why they just didn't set the bad car out, put the train back together and go. Anybody know why they added the cars to the rear of 90?

Thanks,

jb
You can't for the life of you figure out why they "just" didn't set out the bad car, put the train back together and go?

Are you aware of what that entails? I suspect not but let's give you some things you may want to consider. What is the speed of a train with a hot box? How far did they have to go to set out the car with box? What is the shoving speed for the return movement on CSX territory? Where was 90 by the time all of this worked out? When is 80's crew on duty and how much time did they have left by the time this all started and would they have enough time to shove back, assemble the train quicker that it would have taken for 90's crew to make the return movement?

That's the stuff you have to mull when you make these sort of decisions.
 
I don't know that this is definitely the case, but the crew may have had enough time to set out the bad-order car, but not enough time to put things back together and continue north.

I could see a scenario where 80's crew detached the cars and pulled out of the way, then died. 90 picked up the good cars with passengers on them, and a new crew came along later to take the engine and one remaining car to WAS.
 
According to a post on Train Orders, 80 had a hotbox near Petersburg, Va. Evidently, it was the second head car. After a ton of delays, the rear 5 cars were tacked onto the end of 90, The bad car was set out, and the engine with one car continued north.

I can't for the life of me figure out why they just didn't set the bad car out, put the train back together and go. Anybody know why they added the cars to the rear of 90?

Thanks,

jb
You can't for the life of you figure out why they "just" didn't set out the bad car, put the train back together and go?

Are you aware of what that entails? I suspect not but let's give you some things you may want to consider. What is the speed of a train with a hot box? How far did they have to go to set out the car with box? What is the shoving speed for the return movement on CSX territory? Where was 90 by the time all of this worked out? When is 80's crew on duty and how much time did they have left by the time this all started and would they have enough time to shove back, assemble the train quicker that it would have taken for 90's crew to make the return movement?

That's the stuff you have to mull when you make these sort of decisions.
Yes, I am aware. The bad order had to be moved to a switch somewhere to set it out. You imply that perhaps the decision was made to drop the rest of the train somewhere, go somewhere else to set out the bad order, and then retrieve the rest of the train. Do any regulations prohibit moving the whole train at restricted speed to the place where the hotbox will be set out? If not, why not do that, set out the hotbox, reassemble the train and go? Yes, recrew if you have to.

The way this was described, it sounds as if the rear of 80 was dropped somewhere for 90 to pick up, while the head end of 80 went further on to set off the hotbox. Doesn't make sense - unless of course there was NO crew to recrew the train with. In that case I think Hotblack Desiato has the right idea.

jb
 
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You can't for the life of you figure out why they "just" didn't set out the bad car, put the train back together and go?

Are you aware of what that entails? I suspect not but let's give you some things you may want to consider. What is the speed of a train with a hot box? How far did they have to go to set out the car with box? What is the shoving speed for the return movement on CSX territory? Where was 90 by the time all of this worked out? When is 80's crew on duty and how much time did they have left by the time this all started and would they have enough time to shove back, assemble the train quicker that it would have taken for 90's crew to make the return movement?

That's the stuff you have to mull when you make these sort of decisions.
Yes, I am aware. The bad order had to be moved to a switch somewhere to set it out. You imply that perhaps the decision was made to drop the rest of the train somewhere, go somewhere else to set out the bad order, and then retrieve the rest of the train. Do any regulations prohibit moving the whole train at restricted speed to the place where the hotbox will be set out? If not, why not do that, set out the hotbox, reassemble the train and go? Yes, recrew if you have to.

The way this was described, it sounds as if the rear of 80 was dropped somewhere for 90 to pick up, while the head end of 80 went further on to set off the hotbox. Doesn't make sense.

jb
When you set out a car, you inherently have to leave the train somewhere and go back to retrieve it. I thought that was obvious. Secondly, moving with a hotbox may not be restricted speed. It is sometimes "Walking speed" since a car with a hotbox may have a defect that could result in a derailment (which is why they are set out.) Either method takes a considerable amount of time.

So, the train is taken to to the location to set out a car. You have to wait for traffic to clear to even access the siding (and remember, that is a busy stretch that is now down to a single track) Meanwhile, 90 is chugging north at roughly 7 times the speed of 80 and closes in. 90 is right there and can pick up the same cars as 80. Are you really suggesting that they should have reassembled 80 and left the passengers on the train waiting for a crew and let 90 go by?
 
You can't for the life of you figure out why they "just" didn't set out the bad car, put the train back together and go?

Are you aware of what that entails? I suspect not but let's give you some things you may want to consider. What is the speed of a train with a hot box? How far did they have to go to set out the car with box? What is the shoving speed for the return movement on CSX territory? Where was 90 by the time all of this worked out? When is 80's crew on duty and how much time did they have left by the time this all started and would they have enough time to shove back, assemble the train quicker that it would have taken for 90's crew to make the return movement?

That's the stuff you have to mull when you make these sort of decisions.
Yes, I am aware. The bad order had to be moved to a switch somewhere to set it out. You imply that perhaps the decision was made to drop the rest of the train somewhere, go somewhere else to set out the bad order, and then retrieve the rest of the train. Do any regulations prohibit moving the whole train at restricted speed to the place where the hotbox will be set out? If not, why not do that, set out the hotbox, reassemble the train and go? Yes, recrew if you have to.

The way this was described, it sounds as if the rear of 80 was dropped somewhere for 90 to pick up, while the head end of 80 went further on to set off the hotbox. Doesn't make sense.

jb
When you set out a car, you inherently have to leave the train somewhere and go back to retrieve it. I thought that was obvious. Secondly, moving with a hotbox may not be restricted speed. It is sometimes "Walking speed" since a car with a hotbox may have a defect that could result in a derailment (which is why they are set out.) Either method takes a considerable amount of time.

So, the train is taken to to the location to set out a car. You have to wait for traffic to clear to even access the siding (and remember, that is a busy stretch that is now down to a single track) Meanwhile, 90 is chugging north at roughly 7 times the speed of 80 and closes in. 90 is right there and can pick up the same cars as 80. Are you really suggesting that they should have reassembled 80 and left the passengers on the train waiting for a crew and let 90 go by?
Not suggesting anything. Merely looking for answers.

jb
 
John, The way you posed the question, it sounded like you knew a better way to do it, and Amtrak crew were not wise enough to have followed that course. At least I got that impression. Maybe some others did too. Just sayin' as they say :p
 
Not suggesting anything. Merely looking for answers.

jb

My apologies. I must obviously misinterpreted the post below:

Yes, I am aware. The bad order had to be moved to a switch somewhere to set it out. You imply that perhaps the decision was made to drop the rest of the train somewhere, go somewhere else to set out the bad order, and then retrieve the rest of the train. Do any regulations prohibit moving the whole train at restricted speed to the place where the hotbox will be set out? If not, why not do that, set out the hotbox, reassemble the train and go? Yes, recrew if you have to.

The way this was described, it sounds as if the rear of 80 was dropped somewhere for 90 to pick up, while the head end of 80 went further on to set off the hotbox. Doesn't make sense - unless of course there was NO crew to recrew the train with. In that case I think Hotblack Desiato has the right idea.

jb
The good news is now you don't have to sacrifice your life, trying to figure it out and this may help you in the future. :)

PS: I checked the CSX rules. A train with a hot bearing is limited to....wait for it....4MPH to the next location the car can be set out.

I can't for the life of me figure out why they just didn't set the bad car out, put the train back together and go. Anybody know why they added the cars to the rear of 90?

Thanks,

jb
 
Last edited by a moderator:
John, The way you posed the question, it sounded like you knew a better way to do it, and Amtrak crew were not wise enough to have followed that course. At least I got that impression. Maybe some others did too. Just sayin' as they say :p
No. I have every confidence in Amtrak crews. I have less confidence in some of the crazy things CSX dispatchers are being forced to do lately. This incident was a bit unusual in its severity so it made me want to start looking for more details.

jb
 
John, The way you posed the question, it sounded like you knew a better way to do it, and Amtrak crew were not wise enough to have followed that course. At least I got that impression. Maybe some others did too. Just sayin' as they say :p
No. I have every confidence in Amtrak crews. I have less confidence in some of the crazy things CSX dispatchers are being forced to do lately. This incident was a bit unusual in its severity so it made me want to start looking for more details.

jb
Makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
 
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