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Michigan Central Station


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#21 MikefromCrete

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 04:49 PM

You just can't look at Google maps and declare that it wouldn't cost too much to upgrade an industrial track to passenger train standards. There are many variables. How busy is the industrial track? What condition are the tracks. How many grade crossings (including private crossing within industrial properties) are there? What kind of speed is possible? It may be very expensive. It may be impossible. 



#22 NS VIA Fan

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 05:00 PM

Around the late 1990s/2000 a new station was proposed for an area near the EC Row Expressway and Windsor Airport. It would have been on the CP line between the tunnel and Chatham and would have allowed for a future train to Detroit.

But long after other VIA Stations in the Corridor had been rebuilt or renovated.....passengers were still using the old, too small and inadequate Windsor (Walkervile) Station so it appears VIA waited as long as they could for something to happen on a relocated station and just went ahead and built their new station, opening in 2012 at the existing site.

http://windsorite.ca...ation-unveiled/

http://windsorstar.c...to-rave-reviews

It would be nice if a future Detroit train could serve the new VIA Station.....but certainly a round 'about way to access it from the tunnel including a back-up move.

Edited by NS VIA Fan, 09 August 2017 - 06:21 PM.


#23 brianpmcdonnell17

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 05:36 PM

You just can't look at Google maps and declare that it wouldn't cost too much to upgrade an industrial track to passenger train standards. There are many variables. How busy is the industrial track? What condition are the tracks. How many grade crossings (including private crossing within industrial properties) are there? What kind of speed is possible? It may be very expensive. It may be impossible. 

You are right that there are variables, but I have examined them more than it seems that you have. How can you complain about me stating that a significant cost is unlikely when you stated that significantly rebuilding would be necessary without providing any evidence to back up your claim? For your information, I followed the route and it appears the route is around 3 miles long and has sufficient space for another track on all or most of its length. The worst case is 3 miles of brand new track, and even that case would be relatively inexpensive. In addition, that scenario is rather unlikely as it appears to be a lightly used branch line. I doubt trains would be able to operate 80 MPH over that segment, but slow speeds would be acceptable over a short distance. Such an investment would likely cost very little. Of course, the freight owner could exaggerate the necessary costs but they would likely ask for far more for the tunnel track than this short connector.
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#24 NS VIA Fan

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 03:49 AM

CN passenger trains never used the Detroit Tunnel but until the late '50s.....the track passing the current VIA Windsor Station in Walkerville extended a mile or so further to the waterfront where a railcar ferry took through coaches and sleepers to Detroit across the river.

CP trains either terminated in Windsor or ran through the tunnel to the Michigan Central Station where connections were available.Through cars ran to Chicago at one time.

Edited by NS VIA Fan, 10 August 2017 - 04:50 AM.


#25 chakk

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:55 PM

Never rode a rrain into Michigan Central station, but did ride in to and out of the old Fort Street station on the C&O.

#26 chakk

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:00 PM

Never rode a train into Michigan Central station, but did ride in to and out of the old Fort Street station on the C&O.

Edited by chakk, 10 August 2017 - 09:01 PM.


#27 zephyr17

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 12:03 PM

I rode to and from it late in its life in 1984.  It was in really bad shape.  There was a large hall in the front of the station that was walled off with plywood partitions making a hallway from the station entrance to the concourse.  So you walking down this plywood corridor through this large, high ceiling darkened hall.

 

The subway out to tracks smelled like pee.

 

When we arrived there it was nearly midnight and that station was beyond creepy.  We left in the morning and more was visible, but still felt like an abandoned building, which it was soon to become.

 

About 70% of the passengers detrained in Dearborn and didn't ride all the way into Detroit Michigan Central.


Edited by zephyr17, 11 August 2017 - 12:05 PM.

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#28 CraigDK

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 12:09 PM

http://www.crainsdet...it-depot-trains

 

I stumbled across this article on the Michigan Central station while looking for something else.



#29 Metra Electric Rider

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 12:46 PM

Did the Via trains between Toronto and Chicago use the tunnel? I wonder how many of the cars parked at the Windsor station were going to NYC vs. up the corridor to Toronto, Montreal, etc?


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#30 CraigDK

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 12:51 PM

Did the Via trains between Toronto and Chicago use the tunnel? I wonder how many of the cars parked at the Windsor station were going to NYC vs. up the corridor to Toronto, Montreal, etc?

 

No, if you are referring to The International. That train used the rail tunnel between Port Huron, MI and Sarnia, ON.



#31 Metra Electric Rider

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 01:23 PM

 

Did the Via trains between Toronto and Chicago use the tunnel? I wonder how many of the cars parked at the Windsor station were going to NYC vs. up the corridor to Toronto, Montreal, etc?

 

No, if you are referring to The International. That train used the rail tunnel between Port Huron, MI and Sarnia, ON.

 

 

Well, I suppose one could argue that's "the" tunnel, but yes, I'd forgotten it was routed that way. :P


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#32 CraigDK

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 03:50 PM

 

 

Did the Via trains between Toronto and Chicago use the tunnel? I wonder how many of the cars parked at the Windsor station were going to NYC vs. up the corridor to Toronto, Montreal, etc?

 

No, if you are referring to The International. That train used the rail tunnel between Port Huron, MI and Sarnia, ON.

 

 

Well, I suppose one could argue that's "the" tunnel, but yes, I'd forgotten it was routed that way. :P

 

 

No worries. I couldn't remember if there was a different VIA or Amtrak train that was routed through the tunnel between Detroit and Windsor. :lol:



#33 ehbowen

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 07:40 AM

 

 

 

Did the Via trains between Toronto and Chicago use the tunnel? I wonder how many of the cars parked at the Windsor station were going to NYC vs. up the corridor to Toronto, Montreal, etc?

 

No, if you are referring to The International. That train used the rail tunnel between Port Huron, MI and Sarnia, ON.

 

 

Well, I suppose one could argue that's "the" tunnel, but yes, I'd forgotten it was routed that way. :P

 

 

No worries. I couldn't remember if there was a different VIA or Amtrak train that was routed through the tunnel between Detroit and Windsor. :lol:

 

 

While I haven't checked Every Single Timetable, I don't believe that there has ever been a regularly scheduled Amtrak or VIA train which has used the Detroit/Windsor tunnel. However, when the New York Central System's Canadian cutoff between Detroit and Buffalo was still a going thing, there were plenty of passenger trains which used the Detroit/Windsor tunnel.


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#34 Eric S

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 08:37 AM

What route did the Niagara Rainbow use to operate to Detroit? I believe the 1970s incarnation of this train operated New York - Detroit (as opposed to the 1990s version which operated New York - Toronto).


Edited by Eric S, 12 September 2017 - 08:38 AM.


#35 NS VIA Fan

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 10:28 AM

What route did the Niagara Rainbow use to operate to Detroit? I believe the 1970s incarnation of this train operated New York - Detroit (as opposed to the 1990s version which operated New York - Toronto).

Yes.....Amtrak's Empire State Express and later the Niagara Rainbow used the Detroit Tunnel and the xNYC, xPenn Central Conrail route (now mostly abandoned) across southern Ontario.

1) Michigan Central Station
2) St. Thomas Ont
3) St. Thomas Ont
4) Crossing under the Welland Canal
5) Crossing under the Welland Canal

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#36 Metra Electric Rider

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 10:40 AM

So where there historically other Chicago/Detroit/Other Midwestern Destination Cities - Toronto/Corridor trains that used the tunnel? Not just NYC trains... Or were they on the ferry?


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#37 NS VIA Fan

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 10:53 AM

So where there historically other Chicago/Detroit/Other Midwestern Destination Cities - Toronto/Corridor trains that used the tunnel? Not just NYC trains... Or were they on the ferry?

The jointly operated Canadian Pacific - New York Central trains between Toronto and Chicago used the tunnel and until the late '60s CP RDC 'Dayliners' ran through the tunnel into Michigan Central Station.;

CN never used the Tunnel to Detroit. Through cars from Detroit to Toronto were ferried across to Windsor and attached to trains to/from Toronto.

CN's trains between Toronto and Chicago ran via the Tunnel at Port Huron/Sarnia.

#38 SarahZ

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 09:15 PM

Facebook user Ziggy Starz captured these photos. The lights are turned off around 8:00 p.m.


0446fb25a4f7f25bd62dae14d2ca4934.jpg

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#39 SarahZ

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 09:15 PM

3108aeed8c192c277152639e32e13aa7.jpg

Amtrak Miles: 39,318

 

Amtrak Routes: Blue Water, California Zephyr, Capitol Limited, Carl Sandburg, City of New Orleans, Coast Starlight, Crescent, Empire Builder, Hiawatha, Illinois Zephyr, Lincoln Service, Southwest Chief, Texas Eagle, Wolverine

 

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#40 cirdan

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 04:34 AM

Some of the articles mention that this could become an intermodal terminus. So besides Amtrak there might in the future also be some commuter rail lines. Maybe some of the track area could also be converted to make a station for Greyhound and other buses, smiliarly to what was done in New Orleans. Such a change can easily be reversed should the number of trains rise to the point that these tracks are required again. In the meantime they bring passengers and retail opportunities into what would otherwise be an abandoned area.






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