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is it financially possible to add superliner cars?


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#21 railiner

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 02:53 PM

 

Since 1975 is more than 17 years removed from 1954 how many of those patents were still in force in 1975?

The last order of Hi-Levels by Santa Fe was 1964.  Perhaps there were some new patents?

 

Bombardier built the Superliner 2s and had use of the plans of Pullman-Standard.  Don't know how they acquired the rights.  Plans are still intellectual property even if patents are not involved.  Pullman-Standard went out of business and the Superliners were the last cars they built (they were primarily a freight car builder by that time).  Budd is long out of business as well.

 

I don't have the answer to that one...I can't recall where I read that Pullman bought certain Budd designs to build the Superliner's....perhaps they bought some "trade secrets" that don't expire?   Not sure...


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#22 PVD

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 03:05 PM

All of which contributes to why IP is one of the only growth areas in corporate legal practices these days.



#23 XHRTSP

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 06:18 PM

How does the maintenance schedule factor into the season at Amtrak? For example in my industry our peak is Nov/Dec, so we send a bunch of planes into heavy maintence starting late summer, then when peak rolls around we have all birds airborne and all hands on deck.

#24 railiner

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 09:50 PM

Amtrak's peak is generally during the summer and also during the Holiday season....

I don't know if they plan out PM the same way, or simply try to have the minimum of cars and locomotives out on average all year round to keep the workload constant....


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#25 neroden

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 11:12 PM

Protection of "plans" fall under a different set of laws dealing with trade secrets. Those can be protected essentially in perpetuity. Not so with patents. Their protection expires either because the fixed protection period ends or because you fail to pay maintenance fees these days. The third kind of IPR covered by yet another set of laws is Copyright. The three are very different from each other and people perennially conflate them arriving at strange conclusions.

*Sigh* I know this one. The thing about trade secrets is, once they're out, they're out. You can sue whoever revealed them for damages, but anyone can build from the plans and be legally in the clear. Patents expire. Copyrights are supposed to expire but Disney has purchased legislators to extend copyright, which has caused all sorts of horrible messes. However, copyright doesn't cover anything functional (so you can copy all the functional parts of the plans as long as you redraw them).
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#26 cirdan

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 06:02 AM

Seeing we're talking about high peak loadings, as in maybe 10 runs a year, how about considering an alternative to new cars?

 

How about keeping a fleet of heritage cars for that? I understand the problem with heritage cars is that they're uneconomic to maintain. But low mileage cars should require maintenance. That at least is the philosophy behind private varnish and the like.



#27 cirdan

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 06:12 AM

Patents, as others have said, are mostly on functions. There isn't really that much difference between the cars of one manufacturer and another. As the patents mostly concern details, there are aoften alternatives and workarounds.

 

The real art of manufacturing passenger cars is not in the patents but in the design know how. You can study a car. You can take it apart even. But you don't immedaite recognize the thinking of the designer and if you try to do your own you will more often than not end up with a functionalyl inferior design. You might even say this is already happening because with cars no longer being manufactured continuously, that knowledge is being allowed to go dormant and not being passed on and every generation is being forced to reinvent the wheel from first prinvciples. It is this knowledge, if it is still present,  that gives one manufacturer an edge over another, and why a senior engineer or designer changing camps can sometimes reverse the fortunes of a manufacturer.



#28 PVD

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 07:58 AM

How much of the angst in passenger car building has been design related (like the NS failure) versus manufacturing issues? 



#29 west point

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 12:14 PM

Amtrak's peak is generally during the summer and also during the Holiday season....

I don't know if they plan out PM the same way, or simply try to have the minimum of cars and locomotives out on average all year round to keep the workload constant....

 What appears to be Amtrak's maintenance plan based on review of the MPRs is -------

1.  Very heavy maintenance on a few cars is performed during the peak period travel times

2.  During low travel periods many more cars are scheduled into Beech and Bear for lower levels of maintenance.

3.  So it appears during high travel periods about 92 - 95% of cars are in revenue service.  During low travel times may 80% are in revenue service ?



#30 west point

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 12:15 PM

deleted double post


Edited by west point, 07 August 2017 - 12:17 PM.





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