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A Major Expansion Could Occur if Amtrak only did this.


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#21 SarahZ

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 05:23 PM

Yay!

Now I just have to win the Powerball jackpot.

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#22 Lonestar648

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 02:44 PM

With many of the West Superliners trains sold out (Coach and Sleepers) during the summer and holidays why spend money for advertising to get more people being frustrated.  Amtrak needs to increase capacity before doing more advertising.  If Amtrak had more capacity, they could substantially increase the passenger load.



#23 west point

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 05:18 PM

Remember that for any LD trip with 10 - 15 or more stops it only takes one leg sold out for the train to be sold out for your originations or arrivals. With more total spaces available the possibility of sell outs decreases. Get more capacity,

#24 Lonestar648

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 05:37 PM

True, but having just made a  long trip on several trains, hearing the Conductors repeatedly asking Coach passengers not to spread out even though several people got off, they had every seat sold for departure, I am thinking that many of these trains are sold out for at least 50% of their departure stops, or like Reno there were a lot who got off, but a big crowd was waiting at the next stop.



#25 StriderGDM

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 08:56 PM

The only way Amtrak will get a major expansion done is if it had a lot more equipment. They've gotten creative with expansion, but they really are hitting the limits of what they can do.

Advertising is not a bad idea, but let's get more equipment first.



#26 railiner

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 12:57 PM

Remember that for any LD trip with 10 - 15 or more stops it only takes one leg sold out for the train to be sold out for your originations or arrivals. With more total spaces available the possibility of sell outs decreases. Get more capacity,

That's very true....but I believe the Space and Equipment Controller is supposed to monitor long haul trains, and close off sales in legs that could prevent longer trips being booked...they have some kind of algorithm to know when they can open up those segments on closer dates to departure...the end goal is to get the entire route fully booked if at all possible....


metroblue?

okay on the blue!

#27 Lonestar648

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 06:17 PM

Not sure how many wrecked units are at Beech Grove that can be essentially re-manufactured to go back in service. I think they had 8 on their 2017 plan.  Any quantity is a help short term.



#28 XHRTSP

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 06:36 PM


I agree with what others have said.
 
There may be planes with 16" wide seats and 28" pitch, but I've never seen them.  I just booked a cross country flight utilizing 2 planes.  The first on has 18.1" width seats and 30-31" pitch (I upgraded so I have 34" pitch, but I would have been ok with the 30-31".  The second plane as a little narrower seat - 18" :o  and same pitch.

 
Oh - there are planes with seating like that.  They're called fighter jets.
Actually I'm pretty sure you get more space in your average high performance jet than you do on Spirit. I don't know the exact numbers, but that's how I remember it from back when I flew those.

#29 west point

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 10:00 PM

Not sure how many wrecked units are at Beech Grove that can be essentially re-manufactured to go back in service. I think they had 8 on their 2017 plan.  Any quantity is a help short term.

 

Here are the rebuilds at the locations from the May MPR. 

1.  Bear   ----        2 cars rebuilds scheduled  and 1    complete.

2.  Wilmington      0   locos                                     0

3.  Beech              5 cars                                        4

                             5 locos                                       3    Complete



#30 dlagrua

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:13 AM

Aside from my factitious remarks about air travel that are often taken literally; marketing and promotion is key to the success of any business.  If we go back to the golden days of passenger rail there were billboard ads that said " relax in comfort, travel by train"  .

My point is that very few people that I come in contact with, know anything about train travel. Most don't even know that it exists. Advertising usually results in a positive R.O.I. but if the trains are full as Ryan claims, then Amtrak doesn't need more business. I believe this claim is debatable.

Getting back to the seat size on aircraft vs Amtrak ; its obvious that train seats are wider and you have more legroom. Irrespective of of comfort level, you read online there is a lot of discussion about the relationship of seat size and the time it takes to evacuate in case of emergencies. I believe that this will continue to be a point of ongoing discussion.


Edited by dlagrua, 14 September 2017 - 08:15 AM.


#31 Green Maned Lion

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:35 AM

Any assumption that change can happen on a massive scale anywhere if you only do one simple thing is a logical falsehood. The world is a complicated place and Amtrak in particular has a number of problems that are positively Byzantine. Friedman's Law of Unintended Consequences, Hofstadter's law, and Murphy's law are almost always guarenteed to apply to anything of this type.

Related:
Here's Why So Many Asinine Articles Start With Here's Why
Top Ten Reasons For Top Ten Lists
Eight Reasons For Click Bait Lists With A Number Other Than Ten
Seven Ways To Detect Click Bait
Clicking This Link Will Restore My Faith In Click Bait.
Scientists Baffled How Click Bait Successfully Changed Jounalisms Mantra To Not Bury The Lede
Travelled: Broadway Limited (1), Lake Shore Limited (6), Capitol Limited (7), Empire Builder (1), Southwest Chief (2), Sunset Limited (1), California Zephyr (3), Coast Starlight (2), Silver Meteor (5), Silver Star (5), Silver Palm (2), Crescent (1), Cardinal (4), Auto Train (4), Pennsylvanian (2), Palmetto (1), Acela Express (1), Empire Service (1), Northeast Regional (11), Keystone Service (1) --- Total Miles: 50,144 --- Total Trains: 61
Most important: Keep it Simple, Stupid!
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#32 Hotblack Desiato

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 11:27 AM

You Wouldn't Believe What One AU Member Just Posted.  What Someone Said In Response Will Shock You.



#33 Green Maned Lion

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 01:16 PM

ROFL. :D

I Know What You Clicked On Last Summer.

Edited by Green Maned Lion, 14 September 2017 - 01:18 PM.

Travelled: Broadway Limited (1), Lake Shore Limited (6), Capitol Limited (7), Empire Builder (1), Southwest Chief (2), Sunset Limited (1), California Zephyr (3), Coast Starlight (2), Silver Meteor (5), Silver Star (5), Silver Palm (2), Crescent (1), Cardinal (4), Auto Train (4), Pennsylvanian (2), Palmetto (1), Acela Express (1), Empire Service (1), Northeast Regional (11), Keystone Service (1) --- Total Miles: 50,144 --- Total Trains: 61
Most important: Keep it Simple, Stupid!
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#34 jis

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 05:14 PM

Not something that Cruz clicked on hopefully


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#35 Metra Electric Rider

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 05:23 PM

Not something that Cruz clicked on hopefully


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Ooooooooo!


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#36 Alexandria Nick

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:14 PM

Aside from my factitious remarks about air travel that are often taken literally; marketing and promotion is key to the success of any business.  If we go back to the golden days of passenger rail there were billboard ads that said " relax in comfort, travel by train"  .

My point is that very few people that I come in contact with, know anything about train travel. Most don't even know that it exists. Advertising usually results in a positive R.O.I. but if the trains are full as Ryan claims, then Amtrak doesn't need more business. I believe this claim is debatable.

Getting back to the seat size on aircraft vs Amtrak ; its obvious that train seats are wider and you have more legroom. Irrespective of of comfort level, you read online there is a lot of discussion about the relationship of seat size and the time it takes to evacuate in case of emergencies. I believe that this will continue to be a point of ongoing discussion.

Seat size is a red herring on evacuation times.  The overheads popping open and spilling contents everywhere, combined with all the electronics in the overheads basically dropping nets on people is what does it.



#37 fredmcain

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 09:55 AM

True, but having just made a  long trip on several trains, hearing the Conductors repeatedly asking Coach passengers not to spread out even though several people got off, they had every seat sold for departure, I am thinking that many of these trains are sold out for at least 50% of their departure stops, or like Reno there were a lot who got off, but a big crowd was waiting at the next stop.

 

I have had many, many long-distance, cross country trips over the years and I can also say from experience that what you're saying it completely TRUE ! Just see if you can find sleeping car space between Memorial Day and Labor Day or in November or December !  The "slow months" are only slightly better!

 

Why is it that these facts never seems to make it to the politicians in Congress?  Too many of them STILL believe that the long-distance business should be dispensed with 'cause "no one uses it".  HUH?  How can we as a nation have such a huge disconnect?  Or, do they know what the truth is but reject it 'cause it's not in line with their own political agenda?


​Regards,

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#38 neroden

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:22 PM

Why is it that these facts never seems to make it to the politicians in Congress?  Too many of them STILL believe that the long-distance business should be dispensed with 'cause "no one uses it".  HUH?  How can we as a nation have such a huge disconnect?  Or, do they know what the truth is but reject it 'cause it's not in line with their own political agenda?


To be fair to Congress, nearly all of the Democrats and at least a third of the Republicans understand that Amtrak's so-called long-distance services are heavily used, which is why Amtrak's budget continues to be funded year after year.

As for the the Republicans who still don't understand this, facts of any sort seem unable to penetrate their brains. On any subject. These include people who think you can cut taxes, raise spending, and balance the budget simultaneously. You'll have to try something other than facts to influence these people, since they are essentially crazy. GML may have some ideas on how to manipulate them; the manipulation of the weak-minded ideologue is not my area of expertise.

Where facts would actually help is with a different group of Congresspeople. There are a number of Congressmen who recognize that Amtrak is heavily used but think that the trains are "losing lots of money" and that if they cut them it would "cost less money". This is simply untrue for the Eastern long-distance trains: it's clear that all of them are breakeven or better, and cancelling them would cost money. What Congress is funding is basically the fixed overhead costs of having any trains in the US at *all*.

However, Amtrak has *not* made this clear to Congress most of the time, with the honorable exception of one presentation by Boardman. Amtrak is not presenting its accounting in a way which makes the real situation clear. "Fully allocated" nonsense is obscuring this fact and confusing Congresspeople. It would be valuable for this group of Congresspeople to point out, very clearly, that the trains themselves make money but not enough to cover the overhead of the national reservations system, backshops, etc.

This seems to be an extremely difficult idea to get through the heads of idiots. There are a lot of people who think Tesla is "losing money on every car they sell". It's the same situation exactly, of course. They're making money on every car they sell, but not enough to cover fixed overhead. They need more volume to cover overhead. However, the vast majority of people seem totally unable to understand the concept.

Edited by neroden, 12 October 2017 - 12:33 PM.

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#39 Green Maned Lion

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 12:15 PM

Getting the average American, who can barely perform arrithmetic 2 years after finishing College or Algebra, to understand things like operating, capital, avoidable, and fully allocated costs is a laughable concept

Almost every person who was not in retail that Ive told that the basis of standard profit (I actually call less than this a loss) is a keystone (100% markup- I pay $5 and sell for $10) thinks Im ripping them off somehow. Or that me doing $700 in sales in a day is me getting rich ($270 in expenses means I need to sell $540 just to break even, so $700 is $160 over break even or $80 for a 12 hours- I could make more flipping burgers at Hardees.)
Travelled: Broadway Limited (1), Lake Shore Limited (6), Capitol Limited (7), Empire Builder (1), Southwest Chief (2), Sunset Limited (1), California Zephyr (3), Coast Starlight (2), Silver Meteor (5), Silver Star (5), Silver Palm (2), Crescent (1), Cardinal (4), Auto Train (4), Pennsylvanian (2), Palmetto (1), Acela Express (1), Empire Service (1), Northeast Regional (11), Keystone Service (1) --- Total Miles: 50,144 --- Total Trains: 61
Most important: Keep it Simple, Stupid!
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#40 WoodyinNYC

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 07:40 PM

Maybe NARP should make a video of charts and cartoons, to try to explain stuff and make the case for more Amtrak, lots more. It could play on YouTube and reach a good-sized audience.


Edited by WoodyinNYC, 13 October 2017 - 07:41 PM.





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