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"Go back to your seats, or lose them"...


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#21 me_little_me

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 02:41 PM

At least the conductor didn't have hooligans drag you off the train out of your reserved seat.

 

I hear next time, United will try that while the plane is in the air! :giggle:



#22 sakers

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 03:47 PM

Illinois sells multiride tickets for their amtrak routes. I used them all the time when I was commuting from St Louis to Chicago. The obs have no idea how many people will be using those so the train was frequently oversold by the time we got to bnl.

#23 the_traveler

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 03:52 PM

But there's a BIG difference between a corridor train (that sells multi-ride tickets) and the EB (that does not)!
Take it easy .......

Take the train instead and enjoy the ride!

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#24 MattW

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 03:54 PM

So what happens to someone who happens to be in the bathroom?


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#25 ehbowen

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 08:14 PM

So what happens to someone who happens to be in the bathroom?

 

Just tape a seat check on the door....


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#26 chakk

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 11:02 PM

I have experienced very busy trips on the eastbound CZ in Colorado where every coach seat was occupied and persons boarding at Glenwood Springs had to be seated in the lounge car for some time. It could be something as simple as a coach baggage car being substitited into the consist at last minute in Emeryville for a bad-ordered full coach, meaning about 20 fewer seats in the consist than what might have been expected -- and tickets sold for.

#27 Green Maned Lion

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:37 AM


I'm not claiming that there's NEVER a good reason to lie. Just that there's a cost to it.

 
There is indeed never a good reason to lie.  Period.  
 

 
Proverbs 12:22  "Lying lips are abomination to the Lord: but they that deal truly are his delight"

.  

You are absolutely wrong. There are a lot of good reasons to lie, and even better ones for general obfuscation. That includes public safety, protection of the emotionally delicate, and confidence of the general public to prevent pointless fear. And those are just good reasons for benevolent purposes. There are tons of good reasons to lie if you don't have beneficence in your heart. And I consider the above point to be beyond debate.

The debate is whether it is right to lie, not whether there are good reasons for it.

And I further think that far too many people fail at one of my mantras far too often on here: never attribute to malice what can be readily explained by stupidity.

I am sure the conductor did not do this to simply make his job easier. Train pax, by and large, are not sheep. They ask whiney questions, they argue, they complain, and they file negative trip reports with Amtrak. Choosing to perform this action almost certainly came with a solid amount of aggravation and flack- not to mention questioning of his authority. The conductor had a reason, whatever it may be, to justify this tzuris to himself. Or he made a stupid decision.
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#28 A Voice

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:28 AM

 

 

I'm not claiming that there's NEVER a good reason to lie. Just that there's a cost to it.

 
There is indeed never a good reason to lie.  Period.  
 

 
Proverbs 12:22  "Lying lips are abomination to the Lord: but they that deal truly are his delight"

.  

You are absolutely wrong. There are a lot of good reasons to lie, and even better ones for general obfuscation. That includes public safety, protection of the emotionally delicate, and confidence of the general public to prevent pointless fear. And those are just good reasons for benevolent purposes. There are tons of good reasons to lie if you don't have beneficence in your heart. And I consider the above point to be beyond debate.

 

I didn't say it - the Lord God did.  It is literally His words.  I'm sure you didn't mean to, but what you're saying is that God is wrong.  



#29 Ryan

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:32 AM

Protip: Not everyone shares your beliefs.

Protip: Even those of us that do don’t agree on the inerrancy of the Bible.
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#30 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:33 AM

 

 

 

I'm not claiming that there's NEVER a good reason to lie. Just that there's a cost to it.

 
There is indeed never a good reason to lie.  Period.  
 

 
Proverbs 12:22  "Lying lips are abomination to the Lord: but they that deal truly are his delight"

.  

You are absolutely wrong. There are a lot of good reasons to lie, and even better ones for general obfuscation. That includes public safety, protection of the emotionally delicate, and confidence of the general public to prevent pointless fear. And those are just good reasons for benevolent purposes. There are tons of good reasons to lie if you don't have beneficence in your heart. And I consider the above point to be beyond debate.

 

I didn't say it - the Lord God did.  It is literally His words.  I'm sure you didn't mean to, but what you're saying is that God is wrong.  

 

I'm sure you didn't mean to, but what you're saying is that GML is correct.  If people like him are too honest people like you get offended.


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#31 A Voice

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:39 AM

I will be glad to discuss such things with any of you over private message or elsewhere, but I'm not going to derail the thread further.

 

I can assure you, however, no offense was taken by me.  Just standing up for the truth.  



#32 JoeBas

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:06 AM

I can assure you, however, no offense was taken by me.  Just standing up for the truth.  

 

Please do tell your wife that yes, those pants DO make her butt look big. 

Then get back to us on how that worked out for you. ;)



#33 caravanman

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:32 AM

Funny how these threads wind their way hither and thither... :D

 

If one tells a lie, one is robbing the person who hears it. One is robbing them of the opportunity to evaluate and behave as they might with the truth, but instead to do your bidding.

 

I would be surprised if I have travelled less than 50,000 Amtrak miles, but have never heard the "go back to your seat" unlimatum before, most others in the lounge looked annoyed too. No matter.

 

Don't get me started about the non existing god(s)... :P

 

Ed.



#34 Triley

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:38 AM

So I just want to ask those saying never to lie... When we have a fatality, do you want us to (ignore Amtrak's rules in the process) and get on the PA and flat out say we struck and killed a trespasser?  What if someone doesn't want the details of that?  What about the children onboard?  "Police activity" it what it is called for a reason.

 

Green Manned Lion was spot on...


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#35 MikefromCrete

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:57 AM

So I just want to ask those saying never to lie... When we have a fatality, do you want us to (ignore Amtrak's rules in the process) and get on the PA and flat out say we struck and killed a trespasser?  What if someone doesn't want the details of that?  What about the children onboard?  "Police activity" it what it is called for a reason.

 

Green Manned Lion was spot on...

 

I see no reason to hid the reasons for an unexpected stop. I've twice been on a train that ended up killing trespassers. No one made an announcement on the P.A., but the word got around. On one occasion, I was on the Broadway Limited heading through Indiana when we struck a person who had jumped off a bridge right in front of the train. After the sudden stop, police and emergency vehicles started showing up and anyone aware of anything got the idea. Word spread throughout the train.

On the other occasion, I was on a Metra Electric commuter train when we hit a trespasser on the tracks around 35th Street where the trains are going at a good clip since there are no intermediate stations. This was a really hard stop and we sat there for a few minutes when the emergency crews arrived. The conductor went through the train explaining the situation. We sat for several hours while the emergency crews did their work and the train crew had to be replaced in order to be drug tested. Again, anybody who wanted to know anything found out. There was no mass hysteria. Everybody was pretty quiet. We were all affected by this and wondered why a young woman had chosen to end her life this way, but life went on. A crew from the nearby 18th street shops took the train to University Park. 

Again, these things are unfortunate, but there's no real reason to hide the truth: there's been a fatality. No need for grissly details and no need to make a P.A. announcement, but quietly telling those who want to know what happened never hurts. 



#36 A Voice

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:09 AM

"Police activity" it what it is called for a reason.

 

And "police activity" is not a lie in the case of a trespasser strike, so long as law enforcement are actually involved (which they must be).  Being honest does not require giving all the (often inappropriate) details.  



#37 Railroad Bill

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:20 AM

Back to closer on topic, I can see a situation where there might be additional people boarding a train that were not expected. (case in point, recent Capitol Ltd delays that instigated putting Cleveland CL passengers onto the Lake Shore to get them to CHI on time. I am sure the conductor wanted to make sure he had seats in coach for these unexpected people. )  Of course there were not likely to be many people in the SSL at 3am :) .  But there could be a similar circumstance where a double check of seat availability might be necessary. 

The particular situation that Ed describes does sound a bit suspicious :o


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#38 Triley

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:33 AM

 

"Police activity" it what it is called for a reason.

 

And "police activity" is not a lie in the case of a trespasser strike, so long as law enforcement are actually involved (which they must be).  Being honest does not require giving all the (often inappropriate) details.  

 

 

And when you get up in my face because you want to know what's taking so long, what sort of police activity, etc?  As was stated, passengers get nosey and just keep asking questions.  I am not allowed to come out and say "fatality".


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#39 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 12:00 PM

Funny how these threads wind their way hither and thither... If one tells a lie, one is robbing the person who hears it. One is robbing them of the opportunity to evaluate and behave as they might with the truth, but instead to do your bidding. I would be surprised if I have travelled less than 5a0,000 Amtrak miles, but have never heard the "go back to your seat" unlimatum before, most others in the lounge looked annoyed too. No matter. Don't get me started about the non existing god(s)... Ed.

 

I've never heard this particular ultimatum either but I'd be tempted to report it if I did, not because I'd expect any particular remuneration, but simply to get this activity onto someone's radar.  Perhaps it was necessary and unavoidable, which would presumably be discovered by even minimal research on Amtrak's end, but it also might just be a lazy or overbearing reaction to sloppy record keeping.  In which case a few reports that all turned out to come from the same conductor and/or coach attendant might indicate a need for more retraining on when to act and how to convey the message.

 

 

"Police activity" it what it is called for a reason.

 
And "police activity" is not a lie in the case of a trespasser strike, so long as law enforcement are actually involved (which they must be).  Being honest does not require giving all the (often inappropriate) details.

 

 
What you're describing is a lie of omission.  What you're betraying is blind adherence to moral absolutism.  In a previous post you criticized others for not showing enough respect to a man who has made a career of going out of his way to act profoundly disrespectful and never showing any remorse or contrition for his actions regardless of the outcome.  In fact he seems to be doing everything he can to drive as many wedges into as many rifts as possible and turn everyone against each other.  I'm not sure where your foundation for moral proselytizing comes from but it doesn't appear to be based on practicing what you preach.


Edited by Devil's Advocate, 17 July 2017 - 12:09 PM.

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#40 PVD

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 04:39 PM

Hi, we are from the *****, are you hiding anyone from us we would like to send to a concentration camp?  Yes there certainly are lies that are justified.

Sola scriptura just doesn't always cut it.






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