Jump to content




Photo

CUS electrification


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 norfolkwesternhenry

norfolkwesternhenry

    OBS Chief

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 447 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minneapolis, MN
  • Interests:Trains, Boating, Trains, Mountain Biking, Trains, Having Fun, Trains, working on my bikes, Trains, planning my next trip, PV, trains, planning trips for family

Posted 14 July 2017 - 10:32 PM

So I was in CUS almost a week ago, and I remember there were a lot of fumes, and a suprising number got into the station, which didn't bother me, but I'm sure it bothered others. What if (yeah, I know it's real unlikely) third rail electrification was mandatory on all regular trains (perhaps exceptions can be made for excursions, as they are rare and pose no threat to regular conditions), like in Manhattan, so as to eliminate issues with fumes in the station. Also, overhead wire would work, but I know people will complain about Superliner clearances, but if they are moving everything to Viewliner, there shouldn't be an issue onve they switch, just slap a 5 MPH restriction on the Superliners in the station.

Edited by norfolkwesternhenry, 14 July 2017 - 10:33 PM.

Empire Builder MSP-CHI (2) CHI-MSP (2) MSP-PDX (1) MSP-CBS (5.5 H late) (1) MKE-MSP (1) MSP-SEA (1) Coast Starlate PDX-EMY (1.5H late) (1) California Zephyr DEN-SLC (1H late) (1) Hiawatha CHI-MKE (1) NE Regional WAS-BAL (1) WAS-NYP (1) Acela Express BAL-WAS (1) BOS-WAS (1) Late Shore (Limited service) CHI-BOS (On Time) (1) Capitol Limited WAS-CHI (1) Texas Eagle SAS-CHI (1.5 HR late, 1 HR late) (2) CHI-SAS (1) (55 min early) Wolverine DET-DER-ARB-CHI (35 Min late) (1) Cascades SEA-VAC (1)
Non-Amtrak: VIA: Corridor Service Q.C.-Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto-Windsor (1) Canadian: VAC-Winnipeg 4.5 H late (1) D. C. metro, Montreal Metro, Toronto subway, Portland streetcars, BART, Metra, NYC subway, Boston subway, Twin cities Blue/Green line
train cars travelled in: Superliner: Coach, Sleeper, Diner, CCC, SSL. Amfleet: LD Café, Café/Business, coach. Viewliner: Sleeper, Diner. Acela: Café, Business, quiet car. Horizon: Coach. Talgo: coach, diner, café; non Amtrak: ex CP Via Canadian Manor cars, Park car, diner,sleeper, Skyline lounge. LRC trainset: coach (tilt de-activated)

No trees were killed to make this, but a number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

My apologies if I offend you, or seem stubborn, it's simply my nature. I am 14 after all, and my English isn't exactly perfect.


#2 CCC1007

CCC1007

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,496 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 July 2017 - 11:46 PM

No chance, unless the whole suburban network of metra and all of the Chicago based state supported lines had either dual mode engines or were replaced with EMU's.

#3 AmtrakBlue

AmtrakBlue

    Engineer

  • Gathering Committee Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,201 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Delaware

Posted 15 July 2017 - 05:29 AM

Deleted - my post was about WUS, not CUS

Edited by AmtrakBlue, 15 July 2017 - 03:40 PM.

2011: Jun: WIL=>WAS=>WIL (NER) // Nov: WIL=>WAS=>CHI=>PRO (NER=>CL=>CZ)
2012: Apr: WIL=>WAS=>WIL (NER) // May(NTD): WIL=>PHL=>WIL (NER) / PHL=>PAO=>PHL (Keystone) // Aug: WIL=>WAS (NER) / BWI=>WIL (NER) // Oct(Gathering): PHL=>WIL (NER) / PHL=>HAR=>PHL (Keystone) / SEPTA, NJT, PATCO, River Line, Princeton Dinky
2013: May(NTD): WIL=>WAS=>WIL (NER)  // Oct (Gathering): WIL=>CHI (Card) / CHI=>MKE=>GLN=>CHI() / CHI=>JOL=>CHI () / CHI=>WIL(CL=>NER) / CTA, Metra. SEPTA (WIL=>NRK) // Nov:  PHL=>PHL (Autumn Express) 
2014: May(NTD):  WIL=>PHL=>WIL(NER) // May:  WIL=>BOS=>WIL(NER) day trip

2014: Oct(Gathering): WIL=>NYP=>TOL(pd-NER=>LSL) / TOL=>CHI=>LAX=>EMY(pts-LSL=>SWC=>CS) / EMY=>CHI=>TOL (pts-CZ-CL) / TOL=>WAS=>WIL(pd-CL=>NER)
2015: May: CHI=>CIN(pd-Card) / CIN=>WIL(pts Card)
2015;  Oct(Gathering):  WIL=>WAS(Acela) / ALX=>WAS(NER) / WAS=>BAL(Acela) / WAS=>WIL(NER)

2016: Mar: WIL=>WAS=>WIL (NER)  // Oct:  WIL=>NYP=>NYP=>WIL (Autumn Express) 


#4 PaTrainFan

PaTrainFan

    Train Attendant

  • Training
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh, Pa.
  • Interests:Travel, especially by train, Canada, college sports, baseball and apple pie.

Posted 15 July 2017 - 06:53 AM

This has been a complaint for years that brought the attention of the Chicago Tribune, EPA and Sen. Durbin. The owner of the old post office building above the tracks was taken to court for failing to provide proper ventilation. The main offenders appear to be the much older and higher polluting Metra locomotives, and Metra.

 

http://www.chicagotr...1105-story.html



#5 A Voice

A Voice

    Conductor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 684 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 July 2017 - 02:21 PM

So I was in CUS almost a week ago, and I remember there were a lot of fumes, and a suprising number got into the station, which didn't bother me, but I'm sure it bothered others. What if (yeah, I know it's real unlikely) third rail electrification was mandatory on all regular trains (perhaps exceptions can be made for excursions, as they are rare and pose no threat to regular conditions), like in Manhattan, so as to eliminate issues with fumes in the station. Also, overhead wire would work, but I know people will complain about Superliner clearances, but if they are moving everything to Viewliner, there shouldn't be an issue onve they switch, just slap a 5 MPH restriction on the Superliners in the station.

 

Electrification, especially just within terminal areas, is not really a practical solution even if there were a severe problem with exhaust.  Regardless, improved ventilation would be far less expensive.  

 

Where did you ever get the (mistaken) idea Amtrak was "moving everything to Viewliner" ?  



#6 printman2000

printman2000

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,695 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amarillo, Texas

Posted 15 July 2017 - 07:38 PM

I was just through CUS twice in the last two weeks and I was amazed at the LACK of fumes out in the platforms. I figured they had some good ventilation in place.

#7 neroden

neroden

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,995 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Ithaca, NY
  • Interests:Please feel free to moderate my posts

Posted 15 July 2017 - 09:03 PM

I think they forced the owner of the old Post Office to fix the ventilation.

I still think partial electrification (with overhead catenary) is a good long-term idea, particularly for the high-frequency BNSF Line. There are very few overbridges on that line so the catenary could be put up high enough to clear any freight trains. I suspect BNSF wouldn't complain. But it would have to be funded by Metra.

Metra is not only short on money, it's a notorious stick-in-the-mud organization, unwilling to do anything to improve its operations.
--Nathanael--

Please feel free to moderate my posts.

#8 MisterUptempo

MisterUptempo

    Service Attendant

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 78 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago, IL

Posted 16 July 2017 - 04:23 AM

I think they forced the owner of the old Post Office to fix the ventilation.

 

The Old Post Office was sold in March, 2016 to a developer called 601W, and is currently in the middle of a $500 million multi-year renovation of the building, which will eventually house offices and retail.

 

The prior owner, Robert Davies, was a derelict landlord and, for all intents and purposes, just a squatter, never intending on developing the property, merely waiting for the area to become more desirable so he could sell the property off at a sizable profit. In addition to not maintaining the ventilation fans properly, several fires had broken out in the building and he was in arrears in his property taxes to the tune of $600,000 or so. The city was on the verge of taking the Post Office away from him, when he finally made a deal to sell it off to 601W. 

 

The new developer is probably receiving either TIF money or some sort of property tax abatement, and keeping the ventilation system working properly was no doubt a condition for receiving that assistance. I understand that Union Station's Phase I plans would require that the developers of the Post Office also remove two elevators shafts in order to convert the former mail platform into passenger platforms for the anticipated through tracks.



#9 MikefromCrete

MikefromCrete

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,123 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Crete, IL

Posted 16 July 2017 - 10:18 AM

Where in the world would you get the idea that Amtrak is moving away from Superliners? If the Midwest/California car order is ever built, it will be a bi-level design, so the number of two-level cars would increase, not decrease. Electification of CUS will only happen if Metra embraces electric service on its routes. I won't say that this would never happen, but I wouldn't bet any money on it. In that case what would Amtrak do? Invest in a fleet of bi-modal locomotives for all its LD and Midwest short hauls? Seems very far fetched. 



#10 PerRock

PerRock

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,631 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ann Arbor, MI
  • Interests:Passenger Rail, Auran Trainz, Traveling, Graphic Design

Posted 16 July 2017 - 11:20 AM

Where in the world would you get the idea that Amtrak is moving away from Superliners? If the Midwest/California car order is ever built, it will be a bi-level design, so the number of two-level cars would increase, not decrease. Electification of CUS will only happen if Metra embraces electric service on its routes. I won't say that this would never happen, but I wouldn't bet any money on it. In that case what would Amtrak do? Invest in a fleet of bi-modal locomotives for all its LD and Midwest short hauls? Seems very far fetched. 

 

Not to mention that Superliners fit under the wires on the NEC. The issue with them on the NEC is the Tunnels.

 

peter


Given the choice; I fly Amtrak.
 
http://www.amtraktrainz.com

#11 neroden

neroden

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,995 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Ithaca, NY
  • Interests:Please feel free to moderate my posts

Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:35 AM

 

I think they forced the owner of the old Post Office to fix the ventilation.

 

The Old Post Office was sold in March, 2016 to a developer called 601W, and is currently in the middle of a $500 million multi-year renovation of the building, which will eventually house offices and retail.

 

The prior owner, Robert Davies, was a derelict landlord and, for all intents and purposes, just a squatter, never intending on developing the property, merely waiting for the area to become more desirable so he could sell the property off at a sizable profit. In addition to not maintaining the ventilation fans properly, several fires had broken out in the building and he was in arrears in his property taxes to the tune of $600,000 or so. The city was on the verge of taking the Post Office away from him, when he finally made a deal to sell it off to 601W. 

 

The new developer is probably receiving either TIF money or some sort of property tax abatement, and keeping the ventilation system working properly was no doubt a condition for receiving that assistance. I understand that Union Station's Phase I plans would require that the developers of the Post Office also remove two elevators shafts in order to convert the former mail platform into passenger platforms for the anticipated through tracks.

 

Thanks for the information!


--Nathanael--

Please feel free to moderate my posts.

#12 Metra Electric Rider

Metra Electric Rider

    OBS Chief

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 459 posts

Posted 18 July 2017 - 04:12 PM

Didn't we just have a thread about Metra electrification? I know that some of the predecessors to Metra considered it (like in the 1920's after the IC [Illinois Central] electrified their commuter lines) but never did anything about it.


SJ - Norra Stambanan, Nordvästra stambanan, Södra stambanan, Dalabanan

NSB- Bergensbanen, Kongsvingerbanen, Rørosbanen, Dovrebanen, Flåmsbana, Roa–Hønefossbanen

Amtrak - Floridian, San Francisco Zephyr, Southwest Limited, Illini, State House


#13 Lonestar648

Lonestar648

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,326 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 19 July 2017 - 08:45 PM

I sincerely doubt electrification will ever be considered as long as METRA needs to expand service. Currently, the State of Illinois has no money for anything and will have less in the future if they raise the income tax, etc.  Last month, I just drove around the suburb area, though a few areas like Crystal Lake look hit hard, many are doing well in McHenry, Lake, Dupage, and Cook counties.  I just do not see a project like this even in the distant future.


Trains Traveled On:
Texas Eagle                                      Sunset Limited                            California Zephyr                                Southwest Chief                Empire Builder            Capitol Limited           Lake Shore limited (NYP & BOS)      Crescent
Kentucky Cardinal                             Cardinal                                       Pere Marquette                                  Wolverines                        Lincoln Service            Empire Service          Keystone Service                               Acelas
NE Regionals                                    Pioneer                                        Desert Wind                                       Broadway Limited             Three Rivers                Southwest Chief        Coast Starlight                                    Empire Service
 
Amtrak Miles Logged: over 206,000


#14 west point

west point

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,079 posts

Posted 19 July 2017 - 10:30 PM

Present METRA electrification ( DC low voltage ) uses a method not considered best practices.  Now it is 25 kV AC with sometime 12.5 kV for stations.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users