Jump to content




Help Support AmtrakTrains.com by donating using the link above or becoming a Supporting Member.

Photo

3rd Piedmont daily R/T likely effective May 2018 in the works RGH-CLT


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 gercohen

gercohen

    Train Attendant

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 37 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 July 2017 - 09:35 AM

The North Carolina General Assembly in its 2017-2019 budget provided state funding for a 3rd RGH-CLT Piedmont train roundtrip probably effective May 2018.  Timetable might be available late Fall 2017.

 

This would mean 3 daily RT on Piedmont RGH-CLT, plus Carolinian serves RGH-CLT (as part of NYP-CLT), Silver Star covers RGH-CYN (part of NYP-CLT) and Crescent CLT-GRO (part of NYP-NOL)



#2 Skyline

Skyline

    Lead Service Attendant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 124 posts

Posted 07 July 2017 - 09:58 AM

This is great news, and will further stimulate ridership as more same-day options are available.



#3 Philly Amtrak Fan

Philly Amtrak Fan

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,584 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Philadelphia Area

Posted 07 July 2017 - 10:43 AM

Sounds good to me!

 

The current two Piedmonts a day require two sets with one set for 73-74 and one for 75-76. If you wanted to schedule, let's say 77 and 78 without requiring a third set you can have 77 leave RGH around 7-7:30pm and arrive in CLT around 10:30-11pm. But then 78 would have to get back to RGH at least 1-2 hours before the 75 (11:45am) and the 80 is right around that time. Ideally you'd have a nighttime northbound 78 in the 7-11pm range but you'd need a new set or more creative set switching.

 

If you don't mind needing a 3rd set but would rather schedule for transfer opportunities,

 

You want 78 to arrive in RGH in enough time to catch the SS southbound (9:01pm). 8:36pm (76) seems tight for me. How about 3:30pm out of CLT arriving in RGH around 7pm? So 78 would be between 74 and 76 (or they renumber them). You want 77 to leave RGH after 8:45am but late enough so they guarantee the connection from the northbound SS. 11:45am (75) seems a bit late a wait if the 98 is on time. I don't know if scheduling a 10:45am or 11am departure right before the 11:45am is worth it (but should get back to CLT to allow to return at 3:30pm from there).

 

Ideally you could schedule a trip to connect RGH to either Greensboro/CLT to the Crescent but their times are in the graveyard shift.


Edited by Philly Amtrak Fan, 07 July 2017 - 10:44 AM.

Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 

https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/

 


#4 John Bobinyec

John Bobinyec

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,407 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CYN

Posted 07 July 2017 - 11:02 AM

Besides the intricate train set scheduling/juggling, don't forget the train crews.  In the beginning, when there was just one morning Piedmont from Raleigh to Charlotte with an evening return, there were two crews per day.  The morning crew would go off duty to a hotel and stay over night.  Another crew was called for the evening train.

 

When the midday trains came along, both crews started out of Raleigh and turned right around at Charlotte - no more hotels.  It's much better for the crews since everyone makes it home everyday.

 

One other problem that needs to be dealt with is they need more coaches.  At Thanksgiving they already run just about everything they've got.  With more frequencies comes the need for more equipment.

 

jb


LDS Been On:

 

Old: Phoebe Snow (EL), Montrealer (AT), Laurentian (D&H)

RBBB: St. Petersburg - W. Palm Beach, Lakeland - Atlanta, Baltimore - NYC, Rochester, NY - Hartford, Albuquerque - Salt Lake City, Denver - Chicago

Modern: Ocean (VIA), Silver Star, Capitol Limited, Texas Eagle, Autotrain, Carolinian, Southwest Chief, California Zephyr, Lake Shore Limited

 


#5 acelafan

acelafan

    Conductor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 823 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta, GA

Posted 07 July 2017 - 11:04 AM

This is great news, North Carolina and Virginia are such good supporters of passenger rail.  Wish Georgia and South Carolina were, too.  


ASMAD - Has your train been running on time?

 

Amtrak Timetable Archives - PDFs since 2009


#6 Eric S

Eric S

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,324 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Milwaukee

Posted 07 July 2017 - 11:13 AM

One other problem that needs to be dealt with is they need more coaches.  At Thanksgiving they already run just about everything they've got.  With more frequencies comes the need for more equipment.

 

jb

 

Does NC have additional equipment that has not yet been refurbished?



#7 John Bobinyec

John Bobinyec

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,407 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CYN

Posted 07 July 2017 - 11:17 AM

 

One other problem that needs to be dealt with is they need more coaches.  At Thanksgiving they already run just about everything they've got.  With more frequencies comes the need for more equipment.

 

jb

 

Does NC have additional equipment that has not yet been refurbished?

 

 

They didn't, but I don't know if they picked up some of the Ringling Bros. equipment.

 

jb


LDS Been On:

 

Old: Phoebe Snow (EL), Montrealer (AT), Laurentian (D&H)

RBBB: St. Petersburg - W. Palm Beach, Lakeland - Atlanta, Baltimore - NYC, Rochester, NY - Hartford, Albuquerque - Salt Lake City, Denver - Chicago

Modern: Ocean (VIA), Silver Star, Capitol Limited, Texas Eagle, Autotrain, Carolinian, Southwest Chief, California Zephyr, Lake Shore Limited

 


#8 twropr

twropr

    Train Attendant

  • Newbie
  • Pip
  • 11 posts

Posted 07 July 2017 - 11:39 AM

They acquired 8 ex-UP coaches from Ringling

Andy



#9 brianpmcdonnell17

brianpmcdonnell17

    Conductor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 627 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 July 2017 - 12:42 PM

Sounds good to me!
 
The current two Piedmonts a day require two sets with one set for 73-74 and one for 75-76. If you wanted to schedule, let's say 77 and 78 without requiring a third set you can have 77 leave RGH around 7-7:30pm and arrive in CLT around 10:30-11pm. But then 78 would have to get back to RGH at least 1-2 hours before the 75 (11:45am) and the 80 is right around that time. Ideally you'd have a nighttime northbound 78 in the 7-11pm range but you'd need a new set or more creative set switching.
 
If you don't mind needing a 3rd set but would rather schedule for transfer opportunities,
 
You want 78 to arrive in RGH in enough time to catch the SS southbound (9:01pm). 8:36pm (76) seems tight for me. How about 3:30pm out of CLT arriving in RGH around 7pm? So 78 would be between 74 and 76 (or they renumber them). You want 77 to leave RGH after 8:45am but late enough so they guarantee the connection from the northbound SS. 11:45am (75) seems a bit late a wait if the 98 is on time. I don't know if scheduling a 10:45am or 11am departure right before the 11:45am is worth it (but should get back to CLT to allow to return at 3:30pm from there).
 
Ideally you could schedule a trip to connect RGH to either Greensboro/CLT to the Crescent but their times are in the graveyard shift.

The OTP is good enough on the Piedmont that 76 is a guaranteed connection to 91. I have boarded 91 at Raleigh many times, most of which 91 ended up waiting outside the station for 76 to depart to the yard. Another thing to consider is that the connection can be made at Cary, making it 65 minutes which is more than enough for a corridor train.

Ideally, I would like to see the next southbound Piedmont leave Raleigh around 8/8:30, arriving Charlotte between 11 and midnight. This would allow people to work to 5 or 6 in Raleigh and still make a same-day train, in addition to providing a shorter connection time to the Crescent. The connection at Greensboro would be from around 10 PM to 12:22 AM, which is really not much worse than the Pennsylvanian/CL. In fact, the connecting time itself is shorter. Few people want to board a train at 2:45 AM (Charlotte's southbound Crescent departure time) however, so it would be important that the official connecting station is changed from Charlotte to Greensboro. I have connected at both in the past, and Greensboro is also a much nicer station.

In the future, this corridor could probably support three additional trains than the present (six total), with one between 73 and 75 and one between 75 and 79 in addition to the later night depature. The same changes could be made to northbound service, with one train between 80 and 74, one between 74 and 76, and one after 76. I also believe the late train should be the first one to be implemented northbound. Unfortunately, these new trains would do nothing to improve connections from the northbound Crescent, but even with connecting passengers I doubt there is enough demand for a train departing Charlotte before 6 AM.

Another possibility I would look into if I was North Carolina is another train or two to the NEC. Although both Raleigh and Charlotte currently have two, they are scheduled very close together in Raleigh and one of Charlotte's trains is in the middle of the night. A late northbound and early southbound train could be popular. The train would likely arrive/depart New York in the middle of the night, but the sheer size of the city and the slightly better calling times at Philadelphia lead me to believe the train should still be run up the NEC. This could be 74 northbound but the southbound would likely require a currently unscheduled train between 75 and 79. This train could also potentially be combined with 65/66/67, providing direct servicd to Boston. Another idea could be an overnight train between Raleigh and Washington. It could be a continuation of 73 southbound and a potential new circa 8-9 PM departure from Charlotte.

Either train could also be extended to Atlanta if South Carolina and Georgia change politically, with one train providing same-day service as far as Philadelphia from Atlanta and the other providing direct service from Atlanta to Raleigh and Richmond.

Edited by brianpmcdonnell17, 07 July 2017 - 12:44 PM.

Trains travelled: Capitol Limited WAS-CHI, Cardinal CHI-WAS, Carolinian CLT-RGH, Coast Starlight SJC-LAX, Crescent BAL-ATL, Empire Builder MSP-CHI, Empire Service NYP-NFL+NYG-YNY, Lake Shore Limited BOS-ALB, Maple Leaf ALB-NYP, Northeast Regional FBG-RVR+WAS-BOS, Pacific Surfliner LAX-ANA, Pennsylvanian NYP-PGH, Piedmont RGH-DNC, Silver Meteor ORL-NYP, Silver Star FTL-WAS, 2016 Autumn Express NYP-HAR-NYP

Upcoming New Routes: Lake Shore Limited NYP-CHI (December), California Zephyr CHI-RIC (December), Coast Starlight SJC-SEA (December), Empire Builder SEA-MSP (January).

Non Amtrak: Atlanta Streetcar, Caltrain, CTA, DC Streetcar, Hudson-Bergen Light Rail, LIRR, MARC, MARTA, MBTA Subway, Metra, Metrolink, Metro-North, METRO Transit Light Rail, Miami Metrorail, Muni Metro, NJT Commuter Rail, North Star, NYC Subway, PATH, Pittsburgh Light Rail, River Line (NJT), SEPTA Regional Rail, SEPTA Subway, South Shore Line, Sunrail, Staten Island Railway, TECO Streetcar, Tri-Rail, Washington Metro

#10 crescent-zephyr

crescent-zephyr

    Conductor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 630 posts

Posted 07 July 2017 - 12:57 PM

Charlotte to Greenville SC to Atlanta GA is an amazing opportunity for a corridor. But without a new station in Atlanta and political support in SC and GA it won't happen anytime soon I am afraid. :(

Amtrak: - Coast Starlight*, Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin*, Cascades*, Empire Builder*, California Zephyr*, Southwest Chief*, City of New Orleans*, River Cities, Illinois Zephyr*, Wolverine, Cardinal, Capitol Limited*, Lake Shore Limited, Downeaster, Acela Express*, Crescent*, Carolinian*, Silver Star*, Silver Meteor*, Maple Leaf* Texas Eagle.

 

VIA: - Canadian*

 

Iowa Pacific - Hoosier State*, and City of New Orleans Pullman*.   


#11 west point

west point

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,167 posts

Posted 07 July 2017 - 01:24 PM

A couple considerations on schedules.  The track CLT - Greensboro will be all  2MT track.  However the track GRO - Raleigh - Selma will be single track CTC with some 2 MT and long sidings.  Schedules will need tweaking so NS freights do not interfere with the Amtrak schedules and timing. 

 

Timing of the various trains' schedules should be significantly reduced.   The Crescent can make up 30 minutes CLT - GRO so tightening schedule with all 2MT should be 20 minutes for Piedmont's.  How much tightening GRO <> RGH can be done is unknown.  This poster would expect maybe 10 minutes ?  That would make RGH <> CLT just at 3:00 which includes additional :02 to new CLT station ?

 

One possible schedule restriction might be if NC DOT pays to have more GRO - RGH made 2 MT.  That might call for schedules to not be reduced while work is in progress ?

 

The RGH - GRO connection to southbound Crescent may have merit.  As well more passengers north of GRO would allow filling out Crescent south of GRO.  Connection to northbound Crescent at GRO not good
.

How correct about the  Atlanta station situation,  Ideally a station NE of present Amtrak station would be best but location is outside Atlanta city limits so no POL support ?  That location really precludes other service thru Atlanta.

 

Right now May 2017 OTP of Piedmonts are not good station to station is 79 % but end point OTP  is  53%  Hopefully that will improve with the construction going on right now.


Edited by west point, 07 July 2017 - 02:02 PM.


#12 John Bobinyec

John Bobinyec

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,407 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CYN

Posted 07 July 2017 - 04:19 PM

What is "2MT track"?

 

jb


LDS Been On:

 

Old: Phoebe Snow (EL), Montrealer (AT), Laurentian (D&H)

RBBB: St. Petersburg - W. Palm Beach, Lakeland - Atlanta, Baltimore - NYC, Rochester, NY - Hartford, Albuquerque - Salt Lake City, Denver - Chicago

Modern: Ocean (VIA), Silver Star, Capitol Limited, Texas Eagle, Autotrain, Carolinian, Southwest Chief, California Zephyr, Lake Shore Limited

 


#13 Ryan

Ryan

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,453 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:OTN
  • Interests:a fact checker combined with a ferret

Posted 07 July 2017 - 04:40 PM

Two mains.
Posted Image

Disclaimer: Any images or links you see in my post may in fact be invasive advertising or even fraudulent phishing attacks silently injected into my post by our spam based hosting service. If anything looks suspicious or inappropriate or you have any doubt whatsoever then do not click any links (particularly those appearing in green and/or with a double underline) or interact with the spam in any way. You may also want to consider using ad-blocking plugins such as Adblock Plus and/or Ghostery)to help reduce the number and severity of advertising scams directed at you.

#14 west point

west point

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,167 posts

Posted 07 July 2017 - 05:18 PM

2 MT means two tracks both signaled for bi directional operation.  Almost always is CTC.  The only problem with 2 MT operation is stations may only have a platform on one side of the two tracks.  That does restrict trains to just using platform access track.

 

FYI  -   The Amtrak NEC has a mix of 4 MT, 2 MT & directional signaling on either a 3rd adjacent track directional signaled and if preset 4th track signaled in opposite direction; or 3 tracks with center MT bidirectional signaled and outside tracks each signaled in opposite directions; or just 2 MT in Maryland especially over the draw bridges.   Confusing ? ? you bet and it is always changes and you can think of other combinations. 

 

To further muddy the waters not all tracks have cab signals in one direction and / or ACSES yet ?  No cab signals speed limited to 79 MPH.


Edited by west point, 07 July 2017 - 05:33 PM.


#15 brianpmcdonnell17

brianpmcdonnell17

    Conductor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 627 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 July 2017 - 05:23 PM

Greensboro-Raleigh also has less freight traffic than Greensboro-Charlotte as the traffic to the North generally follows the Crescent route at Greensboro, so while it would be ideal to have double track the whole way the schedules could probably be worked out without it from Greensboro to Raleigh.
Trains travelled: Capitol Limited WAS-CHI, Cardinal CHI-WAS, Carolinian CLT-RGH, Coast Starlight SJC-LAX, Crescent BAL-ATL, Empire Builder MSP-CHI, Empire Service NYP-NFL+NYG-YNY, Lake Shore Limited BOS-ALB, Maple Leaf ALB-NYP, Northeast Regional FBG-RVR+WAS-BOS, Pacific Surfliner LAX-ANA, Pennsylvanian NYP-PGH, Piedmont RGH-DNC, Silver Meteor ORL-NYP, Silver Star FTL-WAS, 2016 Autumn Express NYP-HAR-NYP

Upcoming New Routes: Lake Shore Limited NYP-CHI (December), California Zephyr CHI-RIC (December), Coast Starlight SJC-SEA (December), Empire Builder SEA-MSP (January).

Non Amtrak: Atlanta Streetcar, Caltrain, CTA, DC Streetcar, Hudson-Bergen Light Rail, LIRR, MARC, MARTA, MBTA Subway, Metra, Metrolink, Metro-North, METRO Transit Light Rail, Miami Metrorail, Muni Metro, NJT Commuter Rail, North Star, NYC Subway, PATH, Pittsburgh Light Rail, River Line (NJT), SEPTA Regional Rail, SEPTA Subway, South Shore Line, Sunrail, Staten Island Railway, TECO Streetcar, Tri-Rail, Washington Metro

#16 jis

jis

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,768 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
  • Interests:Trains, Planes and Travel

Posted 07 July 2017 - 06:43 PM

2 MT means two tracks both signaled for bi directional operation.  Almost always is CTC.  The only problem with 2 MT operation is stations may only have a platform on one side of the two tracks.  That does restrict trains to just using platform access track.

 

FYI  -   The Amtrak NEC has a mix of 4 MT, 2 MT & directional signaling on either a 3rd adjacent track directional signaled and if preset 4th track signaled in opposite direction; or 3 tracks with center MT bidirectional signaled and outside tracks each signaled in opposite directions; or just 2 MT in Maryland especially over the draw bridges.   Confusing ? ? you bet and it is always changes and you can think of other combinations. 

 

To further muddy the waters not all tracks have cab signals in one direction and / or ACSES yet ?  No cab signals speed limited to 79 MPH.

You cannot really have ACSES without Cab Signals, since ACSES is an overlay on the existing Cab Signaling system. AFAIK all main line tracks on NEC are Cab Signal and ACSES equipped, at least on the Amtrak managed part of the NEC, except in areas inside terminal zones possibly.

 

Where does the "MT" terminology come from? haven't seen it before, so am curious.I am more familiar with which NORAC rule applies to each track mentioned.

 

BTW, in three track territory having only the center track signaled bidirectionally is not that uncommon. A lot of the 4 track territory on the NEC also has only the two middle tracks bidirectionally signaled, and the two outer tracks signaled in a single direction.



#17 west point

west point

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,167 posts

Posted 07 July 2017 - 07:55 PM

2MT means both tracks are bi directionally signaled.  DT ( double track ) is current of traffic with each track signaled only in one direction,  However it may have islands where opposite direction track is signaled for a short interval for passing requirements.  Well all tracks are not yet cab signaled especially far tracks in opposite direction.  Remember Frankford junction was not ACSES  signaled going north bound and signal approaching was a clear instead of a approach 60.  The work is on going if you look at the MPR of ACSES work.  



#18 WoodyinNYC

WoodyinNYC

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,401 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NYC

Posted 07 July 2017 - 08:01 PM

Back to the Piedmont. My understanding is that NC has said it is planning for a very early morning departure from Charlotte with a corresponding evening train from Raleigh. Probably likewise Raleigh-Charlotte but I'm old n forgetful. The intention is for same day business trips.

 

Anyway, I'd expect that NC's priority will be good calling times serving the cities on the route.

 

Much lower priority: Connections to the Amtrak LD lines. If they happen at all beyond coincidence, they will probably happen without any big public announcement, to avoid inciting the Crazies who infest the state legislature.


Edited by WoodyinNYC, 07 July 2017 - 08:08 PM.


#19 brianpmcdonnell17

brianpmcdonnell17

    Conductor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 627 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 July 2017 - 09:27 PM

Back to the Piedmont. My understanding is that NC has said it is planning for a very early morning departure from Charlotte with a corresponding evening train from Raleigh. Probably likewise Raleigh-Charlotte but I'm old n forgetful. The intention is for same day business trips.
 
Anyway, I'd expect that NC's priority will be good calling times serving the cities on the route.
 
Much lower priority: Connections to the Amtrak LD lines. If they happen at all beyond coincidence, they will probably happen without any big public announcement, to avoid inciting the Crazies who infest the state legislature.

Even if it is by coincidence, the schedule appears to benefit connections between Raleigh and points south/west on the Crescent
Trains travelled: Capitol Limited WAS-CHI, Cardinal CHI-WAS, Carolinian CLT-RGH, Coast Starlight SJC-LAX, Crescent BAL-ATL, Empire Builder MSP-CHI, Empire Service NYP-NFL+NYG-YNY, Lake Shore Limited BOS-ALB, Maple Leaf ALB-NYP, Northeast Regional FBG-RVR+WAS-BOS, Pacific Surfliner LAX-ANA, Pennsylvanian NYP-PGH, Piedmont RGH-DNC, Silver Meteor ORL-NYP, Silver Star FTL-WAS, 2016 Autumn Express NYP-HAR-NYP

Upcoming New Routes: Lake Shore Limited NYP-CHI (December), California Zephyr CHI-RIC (December), Coast Starlight SJC-SEA (December), Empire Builder SEA-MSP (January).

Non Amtrak: Atlanta Streetcar, Caltrain, CTA, DC Streetcar, Hudson-Bergen Light Rail, LIRR, MARC, MARTA, MBTA Subway, Metra, Metrolink, Metro-North, METRO Transit Light Rail, Miami Metrorail, Muni Metro, NJT Commuter Rail, North Star, NYC Subway, PATH, Pittsburgh Light Rail, River Line (NJT), SEPTA Regional Rail, SEPTA Subway, South Shore Line, Sunrail, Staten Island Railway, TECO Streetcar, Tri-Rail, Washington Metro

#20 Thirdrail7

Thirdrail7

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,146 posts

Posted 08 July 2017 - 12:16 PM

2 MT means two tracks both signaled for bi directional operation.  Almost always is CTC.  The only problem with 2 MT operation is stations may only have a platform on one side of the two tracks.  That does restrict trains to just using platform access track.

 

FYI  -   The Amtrak NEC has a mix of 4 MT, 2 MT & directional signaling on either a 3rd adjacent track directional signaled and if preset 4th track signaled in opposite direction; or 3 tracks with center MT bidirectional signaled and outside tracks each signaled in opposite directions; or just 2 MT in Maryland especially over the draw bridges.   Confusing ? ? you bet and it is always changes and you can think of other combinations. 

 

To further muddy the waters not all tracks have cab signals in one direction and / or ACSES yet ?  No cab signals speed limited to 79 MPH.

 

 

2MT means both tracks are bi directionally signaled.  DT ( double track ) is current of traffic with each track signaled only in one direction,  However it may have islands where opposite direction track is signaled for a short interval for passing requirements.  Well all tracks are not yet cab signaled especially far tracks in opposite direction.  Remember Frankford junction was not ACSES  signaled going north bound and signal approaching was a clear instead of a approach 60.  The work is on going if you look at the MPR of ACSES work.  

 

 

These posts are not only off topic, they are so incorrect, it would take an entire thread to correct.  The terms are off for the territory, your current of traffic is wrong and your understanding(?) compromises your posts.

 

Thanks for trying...but...please....no.


They say laughter is the best medicine. Obviously they never posted on AU.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users