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A proposal to restructure Amtrak


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#21 Chessie

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 10:14 PM

How about spare .1% of the defense budget?

#22 Tarm

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 05:21 AM

Do you work for the Heritage Foundation or another Right Wing Fantasy Operation?

 

Nope. Just a guy that loves trains and tries to see the world the way it is and not the way I want it to be.


Edited by Tarm, 06 July 2017 - 05:44 AM.


#23 Tarm

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 05:28 AM

Don't know about #1 and 2 but, the Pacific Northwest and Southern California have the Cascades and the Pacific Surfliner which are predominately state-supported and would probably survive. There are other areas with state-supported, Amtrak operated rail as well.

State supported trains do not add to Amtrak's losses and since states are required to balance their budgets I feel that is responsible governmental spending. If more states stepped up to cover more interstate routes Amtrak would not have to losses it now has. 



#24 Tarm

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 05:43 AM

One thing that people forget is that most of the allocated cost is not going to go away just because you got rid of a bunch of trains. the absolute amount will go down only slightly, maybe 10-15%. The rest will simply get allocated to fewer trains raising their net costs, and making them progressively less viable financially too.

The only route to be dropped is the SL all the others are to be restructured. What is better, a single LD train departing at 2 PM and going a 1000 miles or four corridor type trains departing at 7 AM, 10 AM, 2 PM, 5PM and going 250 miles? Which schedule has economies of scale? Which provides the better service? Do you believe there is untapped demand for fast frequent rail service as I do?


Edited by Tarm, 06 July 2017 - 06:39 AM.


#25 Tarm

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 06:28 AM

 

 

Passenger rail is a niche product. It best serves the 100 mile to 400 mile trip segment. For shorter trips the flexibility of automobiles comes into play and for longer trips the speed of aircraft wins out. To be successful each transportation method must fit its market

 


 

Source please?  

 

Okay, let's take some trips. (Train fares are from Amtrak website, air fares for 7/25 from Expedia for one way adult ticket.)

 

1. Short trip, Chicago to Milwaukee, 86 miles.

Train: Arrive at station 15 minutes early, travel 1 hr 20 min, depart station 5 min, total travel time 1 hr 40 min, fare $25.

Plane: Arrive at airport 2 hr early(from Delta Airlines website), travel time 47 min, depart airport 15 min, total travel time 3 hr 2 min, fare $131.

Train wins. Faster, cheaper.

 

2. Medium trip, Chicago to St. Louis, 284 miles.

Train: Arrive at station 15 minutes early, travel time 5 hr 20 min, depart station 5 min, total travel time 5 hr 40 min, fare $27.

Plane: Arrive at airport 2 hours early, travel time 1 hr 5 min, depart airport 15 min, total travel time 3 hr 20 min, fare $151.

Plane faster but train cheaper. To save the 2 hours 20 min by air cost an additional fare of $124 or $53 per hour of travel time. Most people do not value their time that high.

 

3. Long trip, Chicago to Denver, 1038 miles.

Train: Arrive at station 30 min early (LD train),travel time 18 hr 15 min, depart station 5 min, total travel time 18 hr 50 min, fare $121.

Plane: Arrive at airport 2 hr early, travel time 2 hr 40 min, depart airport 15 min, total travel time 4 hr 55 min, fare $142.

Plane faster but train cheaper. To save 13 hr 55 min of travel time cost an addition air fare of $21 or $1.50 per hour of travel time. No one is that cheap.

 

So I hold to my belief that train travel works best in the 100 to 400 mile range.


Edited by Tarm, 06 July 2017 - 06:48 AM.


#26 Tarm

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 06:32 AM

This proposal makes perfect.  I'd get rid of the CZ as well.  Such a system reorganization should have been implemented 40 years ago.  Amtrak is public transportation, not a land cruise for retirees or a commuter service for rural residents.  No more sleepers, no more dining service.

Thank you, WBF. At least I'm not the only voice in the wilderness.



#27 Tarm

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 06:38 AM

You are aware that members of the public live in all of those places, right?

Yep, like me. I live in Northern Wisconsin, 3 hours from the nearest Amtrak station.



#28 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 06:46 AM

 

 

The Cardinal (yes, one of the 5 "money losing" trains) would be profitable if it were daily.  It should be daily.  The eastern end is very heavily used -- you'd probably be surprised how many people go from Cincy to DC.
 

 

 

Well that's rather easy to guesstimate.

https://www.narprail...es/1816/cin.pdf

 

11,862 total passengers in 2016, WAS is 602 miles away, 16.4% of passengers traveled between CIN and WAS (WAS is 2nd behind CHI as CIN's #1 destination). So that rounds to 1945 passengers. Technically BAL is also in the 600-699 mile range so some of those 1945 are traveling to BAL although more than half of them are going to WAS. I'd ballpark it somewhere in the neighborhood of 1500 (about 3/4 WAS and 1/4 BAL). I don't know if that number is surprising or not. 


Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 

https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/

 


#29 jis

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 06:49 AM

 

One thing that people forget is that most of the allocated cost is not going to go away just because you got rid of a bunch of trains. the absolute amount will go down only slightly, maybe 10-15%. The rest will simply get allocated to fewer trains raising their net costs, and making them progressively less viable financially too.

The only route to be dropped is the SL all the others are to be restructured. What is better, a single LD train departing at 2 PM and going a 1000 miles or four corridor type trains departing at 7 AM, 10 AM, 2 PM, 5PM and going 250 miles? Which schedule has economies of scale? Which provides the better service? Do you believe there is untapped demand for fast frequent rail service as I do?

 

Your premise that stopping one LD train will make enough money available to start a four train per day corridor is erroneous. It won't.



#30 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 07:21 AM

Well let's consider costs alone and ignore political/philosophical issues...

 

The EB requires 6 sets to run (http://discuss.amtra...nsist-listings/). Running CHI-MSP would require 2 sets. So based on equipment alone, one EB = three CHI-MSP (and you wouldn't even need the sleepers for CHI-MSP unless you ran an overnight between the two cities).

 

EB: 2205 miles (I'll ignore the PDX branch). CHI-MSP: 418 miles. In terms of train miles (fuel), one EB = five CHI-MSP.

 

EB from CHI to SEA: 46 hr, 10 min. EB from CHI to MSP: 7 hr, 48 min. In terms of travel time (labor), one EB = almost six CHI-MSP

 

You don't run the EB between MSP and SPK (assume you can keep service in WA/OR) and you can close about 20 stations and not have to pay the host railroads for 1,451 miles and 29 hr, 20 min. of travel time. The only $ question would be how much it would cost for Amtrak to acquire track usage for the additional CHI-MSP runs and in terms of miles and hours we are talking 1/5 the amount of miles/hours per trip. Is the CHI-MSP track more valuable for freight than MSP-SPK? How much more?

 

From a cost perspective, if you can't run 3-4 trains between CHI-MSP for the cost to run one EB, I must be missing something here. 


Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 

https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/

 


#31 Bob Dylan

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 07:52 AM


You are aware that members of the public live in all of those places, right?

Yep, like me. I live in Northern Wisconsin, 3 hours from the nearest Amtrak station.
Very Interesting.Your ideas area wrong as other members are pointing out with facts, but you're certainly entitled to them.

And did you support killing the Madison Train, and also Vote for the Con Man Governor that Wisconsin has?🤔

Edited by Bob Dylan, 06 July 2017 - 07:52 AM.

"There's Something About a Train! It's Magic!"-- 1970s Amtrak Ad
 
".. I ride on a Mail Train Baby, can't buy a thrill.."--I said that!
 
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Yet there isn't a train I wouldn't take,No matter where its going!.." -Edna St. Vincent Millay

#32 keelhauled

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 08:34 AM

And did you support killing the Madison Train, and also Vote for the Con Man Governor that Wisconsin has?🤔


This right here is why I spend considerably less time on AU than I used. Why must people (collectively) feel the need to insert pointed political jabs and questions into a discussion that has nothing to do with it. This is a perfectly reasonable conversation about Amtrak's purpose and future, what does it possibly gain to drag the guy's personal political beliefs into it. All that ever happens is the discussion devolves into mud slinging that is tangential at best to the original topic.

Go on, raise the flag, I got stars in my eyes...I'm in love with her and I won't apologize.


#33 GBNorman

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 08:44 AM

Wow, did this topic ever ignite a firestorm.

 

As I have noted at the two other sites at which I regularly participate, joining up for the roads was a "Faustian pact with the Devil" - especially since post-Staggers where rates and services were deregulated, the trains would have been gone - simple as that.

 

Where the roads badly miscalculated was they did not foresee the grass root political support the trains, economics notwithstanding, would generate.  While the 1979 Carter Cuts were thought to be the beginning of the end, such did not become the case (the Clinton cuts simply got rid of the 1980's excesses where it seemed that a new route was being added once a month).  I'm sure that when Amtrak ordered new Superliner equipment, those walls at CUS heard "we're stuck with 'em now".

 

I would guess the roads have become Kubler-Ross Phase V - Acceptance about it all.  They are hardly about to encourage expansion, frequencies and/or routes, but then they are not about to pull stunts such as "embargoes", random "safety inspections" (lest we forget that even as the SP "melted down" leading up to the UP merger, the "Sunset" somehow got through), or "pop quizzes" on Amtrak Conductors and Engineers focusing on the most obscure Rule in the Book.

 

So there we have it, the existing LD's are here to stay.  They are the catalyst for obtaining Federal level funding for essentially a regional operation - the NEC.  Amtrak is inexpensive and popular - what every politician dreams of - pork on sale!



#34 A Voice

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 09:07 AM

 

 

 

Passenger rail is a niche product. It best serves the 100 mile to 400 mile trip segment. For shorter trips the flexibility of automobiles comes into play and for longer trips the speed of aircraft wins out. To be successful each transportation method must fit its market

 


 

Source please?  

 

Okay, let's take some trips. (Train fares are from Amtrak website, air fares for 7/25 from Expedia for one way adult ticket.)

 

1. Short trip, Chicago to Milwaukee, 86 miles.

Train: Arrive at station 15 minutes early, travel 1 hr 20 min, depart station 5 min, total travel time 1 hr 40 min, fare $25.

Plane: Arrive at airport 2 hr early(from Delta Airlines website), travel time 47 min, depart airport 15 min, total travel time 3 hr 2 min, fare $131.

Train wins. Faster, cheaper.

 

2. Medium trip, Chicago to St. Louis, 284 miles.

Train: Arrive at station 15 minutes early, travel time 5 hr 20 min, depart station 5 min, total travel time 5 hr 40 min, fare $27.

Plane: Arrive at airport 2 hours early, travel time 1 hr 5 min, depart airport 15 min, total travel time 3 hr 20 min, fare $151.

Plane faster but train cheaper. To save the 2 hours 20 min by air cost an additional fare of $124 or $53 per hour of travel time. Most people do not value their time that high.

 

3. Long trip, Chicago to Denver, 1038 miles.

Train: Arrive at station 30 min early (LD train),travel time 18 hr 15 min, depart station 5 min, total travel time 18 hr 50 min, fare $121.

Plane: Arrive at airport 2 hr early, travel time 2 hr 40 min, depart airport 15 min, total travel time 4 hr 55 min, fare $142.

Plane faster but train cheaper. To save 13 hr 55 min of travel time cost an addition air fare of $21 or $1.50 per hour of travel time. No one is that cheap.

 

So I hold to my belief that train travel works best in the 100 to 400 mile range.

 

 

Nice strawman argument.  Anecdotal examples prove absolutely nothing, but more importantly, you are still proceeding from a false assumption; Neither cost nor travel time are necessarily the primary factors in choice of mode of transportation.  Indeed, the primary competition for passenger rail - corridor, regional, and long-distance - is not the airplane but the automobile (which would be a more valid comparison).  

 

Secondly, Amtrak's real market and true potential lies in travel to and from intermediate points, smaller communities  (which combined form a larger market base) that lack frequent and inexpensive air service - if they even have air service at all.  Passengers travelling from Chicago to Denver may well fly, which is fine, because the one train a day can easily be filled with people going other places.  In fact, when you suggest passenger rail is well suited to moderate distance travel of 400 miles or thereabout, you are actually on the right track (pardon the pun), for this is exactly how the long-distance trains - the ones you propose eliminating - are being used.  Chicago to Denver (or to California) aren't the primary markets; Rather, passengers are travelling from Chicago to Osceola, Burlington to Omaha, Lincoln to Denver, and so on.  

 

Finally, how do you define the "best serves the 100 mile to 400 mile trip segment" claim.  What are you basing this conclusion on?  What do the financial numbers look like for several short-distance trains versus one long-distance service?  This isn't as simple as it appears, and depends greatly on what the true purpose is for passenger rail in general or Amtrak in particular (provide a rural public transportation service, ostensibly for-profit, mass transit, etc.).   

 

 

Nope. Just a guy that loves trains and tries to see the world the way it is and not the way I want it to be.

 

Many, many problems in society and the world (even far removed from passenger rail) would vanish tomorrow were most people not so ambivalent and irresolute, and actually did something to change things rather than just take the attitude "well, that's the way the world is today".  

 

State supported trains do not add to Amtrak's losses 

 

Amtrak's proposed federal budget includes money for operating state supported services.  



#35 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 09:17 AM

 

 

 

So I hold to my belief that train travel works best in the 100 to 400 mile range.

 

 

No one is disputing that belief, I think most if not all of us agree with you. That is the saddest part of the 750 mile rule, you might actually gain significant ridership with increasing potential 100-400 mile trips like LAX-Vegas, DAL-HOS, or CLE-CIN or a second PHL-PGH or CIN-CHI (I'll say CHI-MSP too even though it's 418 miles, LAX-SJC is 423 miles), etc. but the federal government said they won't spend money for it (they would say go ask your state(s) for it).


Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 

https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/

 


#36 TiBike

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 10:06 AM

The justification for subsidies is that trains provide a necessary transportation service. Corridor trains do a good job of that. By comparison, long distance trains don't.

 

The Capitol Corridor and Surfliner have excellent on time performance, clean cars, decent food (and good beer) in the cafe, and invariably courteous, hardworking staff. The Coast Starlight does not.

 

California would be better served by a state-run Coast Daylight between LA and San Jose, and a daytime extension of the Capitol Corridor north of Sacramento. Same for a Capitol Corridor extension past Auburn to Reno, versus the Zephyr, and, I would guess, for a Cascades extension to Klamath Falls.

 

Long distance trains are great if you're not particular about when you depart or arrive, and you're willing to put up with service that can go from excellent to miserable and surly in an instant. But that's not the way to provide basic, reliable transportation.


Coast Starlight • California Zephyr • Crescent • Lake Shore Limited • San Joaquin • Capitol Corridor • Pacific Surfliner

Shinkansen • TranzAlpine (NZ) • Northern Explorer (NZ) • Coastal Pacific (NZ) • Great Southern Rail Overland (Oz) • Tze-Chiang Limited (ROC) • Thello Venice-Paris

#37 Thirdrail7

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 10:11 AM

 

Don't know about #1 and 2 but, the Pacific Northwest and Southern California have the Cascades and the Pacific Surfliner which are predominately state-supported and would probably survive. There are other areas with state-supported, Amtrak operated rail as well.

State supported trains do not add to Amtrak's losses and since states are required to balance their budgets I feel that is responsible governmental spending. If more states stepped up to cover more interstate routes Amtrak would not have to losses it now has. 

 

 

That is inherently untrue. Every coach or resource you divert to state supported services takes away from Amtrak's network. Do you realize how long some of the trains were before Amtrak started providing additional equipment to state supported services?  If they were running with their own cars (Such as MARC or CDOT) that is one thing.  However, the diverted  equipment could be used to run additional trains and add to existing services.

 

Okay, let's take some trips. (Train fares are from Amtrak website, air fares for 7/25 from Expedia for one way adult ticket.)

 

1. Short trip, Chicago to Milwaukee, 86 miles.

Train: Arrive at station 15 minutes early, travel 1 hr 20 min, depart station 5 min, total travel time 1 hr 40 min, fare $25.

Plane: Arrive at airport 2 hr early(from Delta Airlines website), travel time 47 min, depart airport 15 min, total travel time 3 hr 2 min, fare $131.

Train wins. Faster, cheaper.

 

2. Medium trip, Chicago to St. Louis, 284 miles.

Train: Arrive at station 15 minutes early, travel time 5 hr 20 min, depart station 5 min, total travel time 5 hr 40 min, fare $27.

Plane: Arrive at airport 2 hours early, travel time 1 hr 5 min, depart airport 15 min, total travel time 3 hr 20 min, fare $151.

Plane faster but train cheaper. To save the 2 hours 20 min by air cost an additional fare of $124 or $53 per hour of travel time. Most people do not value their time that high.

 

3. Long trip, Chicago to Denver, 1038 miles.

Train: Arrive at station 30 min early (LD train),travel time 18 hr 15 min, depart station 5 min, total travel time 18 hr 50 min, fare $121.

Plane: Arrive at airport 2 hr early, travel time 2 hr 40 min, depart airport 15 min, total travel time 4 hr 55 min, fare $142.

Plane faster but train cheaper. To save 13 hr 55 min of travel time cost an addition air fare of $21 or $1.50 per hour of travel time. No one is that cheap.

 

So I hold to my belief that train travel works best in the 100 to 400 mile range.

 

 

That's all well and good but to make the argument, you would have to know which points on the trains you want to cut bring in the most revenue and account for the most ridership.  What are the top city pairs  of revenue and ridership on the CONO as an example?


They say laughter is the best medicine. Obviously they never posted on AU.


#38 Thirdrail7

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 10:24 AM

Well let's consider costs alone and ignore political/philosophical issues...

 

The EB requires 6 sets to run (http://discuss.amtra...nsist-listings/). Running CHI-MSP would require 2 sets. So based on equipment alone, one EB = three CHI-MSP (and you wouldn't even need the sleepers for CHI-MSP unless you ran an overnight between the two cities).

 

EB: 2205 miles (I'll ignore the PDX branch). CHI-MSP: 418 miles. In terms of train miles (fuel), one EB = five CHI-MSP.

 

EB from CHI to SEA: 46 hr, 10 min. EB from CHI to MSP: 7 hr, 48 min. In terms of travel time (labor), one EB = almost six CHI-MSP

 

You don't run the EB between MSP and SPK (assume you can keep service in WA/OR) and you can close about 20 stations and not have to pay the host railroads for 1,451 miles and 29 hr, 20 min. of travel time. The only $ question would be how much it would cost for Amtrak to acquire track usage for the additional CHI-MSP runs and in terms of miles and hours we are talking 1/5 the amount of miles/hours per trip. Is the CHI-MSP track more valuable for freight than MSP-SPK? How much more?

 

From a cost perspective, if you can't run 3-4 trains between CHI-MSP for the cost to run one EB, I must be missing something here. 

 

 

You are missing something and that is the costs you never include in your proposals. In other words,  while you say you can cut the railroad miles, you have no idea what each railroad charges for various sections? Do you REALLY think CSX charges the same amount of money for their  lighter used "S"Line as their congested, heavily used "A" line?"   Additionally, a lot of the legacy trains are bound by operating agreements that cap costs. When additional service is negotiated, costs balloon, which is why new service is harder to come by.

 

Let's also expand on the operations. How many more crews will it take to run corridor service? How many additional mechanical crews will you need for turnaround inspections? How many additional facilities  are needed because people fail to remember the operational difference and financial difference between long distance trains. Operationally, the Pennsylvanian and the Vermonter are considered long distance trains which means they must have the support of mechanical at its outlying point. 

 

It is often cheaper to keep the train moving to one location than to have numerous outlying and turnaround points in the middle of nowhere.

 

 

I'm always amused at people that are in favor of keeping the NEC since it moves a lot of people. It indeed moves the most people but it also carried the most costs. It takes BILLIONS to run the corridor every year without covering its costs.  How many Lond Distance trains and corridor trains could Amtrak have run for the $500 million it just spent on upgrading 22 miles of catenary? How many additional trains could Amtrak finance in the rest of the country if they weren't spending a ton of money upgrading NYP which is a project that helps LIRR and NJT more than Amtrak?

 

 

The corridor is a multi billion dollar money pit that still has a 38 billion dollar backlog. Yet, they are spending billion to get a second set of high speed trains since the first set will barely make 20 years.  Meanwhile, the Superliners, Amfleets and Diesels will have to keep on plugging away, 20, 30 and 40 years later.


They say laughter is the best medicine. Obviously they never posted on AU.


#39 west point

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 10:44 AM

This is an interesting idea of how the LD trains have taken a hit.  Seem to recall in the past that the single level LD trains had a lot of Amfleet-1s mainly for shorter haul passengers.  Do not recall but believe that more Amfleet-2s were planned for LD trains than were bought ? 



#40 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 12:23 PM

 

 

 

 

I'm always amused at people that are in favor of keeping the NEC 

 

 

Who's NOT in favor of keeping the NEC?

 

 

 

How many Lond Distance trains and corridor trains could Amtrak have run for the $500 million it just spent on upgrading 22 miles of catenary? How many additional trains could Amtrak finance in the rest of the country if they weren't spending a ton of money upgrading NYP which is a project that helps LIRR and NJT more than Amtrak?

 

 

 

Go ask NS. Go ask CSX. Go ask UP. What would they give us for $500 million? How many more trains would they let us run? Where? At what times? At what speeds?  Let's make a deal. Are the host railroads just going to let us "take over" their railroads and actually put passenger service first? They might as well just sell us the tracks then (which we'd all love of course).You make it seem like begging the host railroads for any new service or even rescheduled service to better serve major markets is like pulling teeth (or at least any service additions/changes I would want). If I'm Congress, why shouldn't I spend money on my own tracks that I have more control over vs. paying "more rent" to CSX and getting little if anything of value for it? Why shouldn't I spend money on trainsets that I can use on my own tracks vs. extra trainsets that I have to beg UP to let me run at all?

 

Amtrak will always be second class as renters on host railroads. If they want to duplicate the "success" of the NEC, they have to own or have more control of the rails outside of the NEC.


Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 

https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/

 





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