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Exceptions to the 13-15 YO rule?


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#61 norfolkwesternhenry

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 09:07 PM

So is my best shot to get an executive order for an exception?

Empire Builder MSP-CHI (2) CHI-MSP (2) MSP-PDX (1) MSP-CBS (5.5 H late) (1) MKE-MSP (1) MSP-SEA (1) Coast Starlate PDX-EMY (1.5H late) (1) California Zephyr DEN-SLC (1H late) (1) Hiawatha CHI-MKE (1) NE Regional WAS-BAL (1) WAS-NYP (1) Acela Express BAL-WAS (1) BOS-WAS (1) Late Shore (Limited service) CHI-BOS (On Time) (1) Capitol Limited WAS-CHI (1) Texas Eagle SAS-CHI (1.5 HR late, 1 HR late) (2) CHI-SAS (1) (55 min early) Wolverine DET-DER-ARB-CHI (35 Min late) (1) Cascades SEA-VAC (1)
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#62 BCL

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 09:43 PM

So is my best shot to get an executive order for an exception?

 

Now you're just being silly.  You claim to be mature enough to do this, but then don't understand why the policy exists, why exceptions aren't made, and how much in resources you're asking of Amtrak just to make an exception for you?  Do you think that they'd be willing to consider an executive order to allow pets because someone claims that their pet can handle it?  Or that someone has a gun permit and wants to be able to carry a loaded weapon on board?

 

All the reasons for a uniform policy that is applied evenly without exceptions has been laid out here.  A policy is very difficult to implement if executives can simply override it based on a letter written to Amtrak.

 

In short, you have no shot.  Wait until you turn 16, and you'll be able to ride Amtrak anywhere you want without restriction.  Perhaps you think that's unfair, but to Amtrak I'm not special, you're not special, and that's just the way it is.  You can always try, but I can almost assure you that your response will be some form letter that they can't make any exceptions to their published policy.



#63 Lonestar648

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 12:19 AM

I fully agree.  You are young, with decades of learning in front of you.  As a mature young man, if you will step back a minute, separate yourself from the situation, then be objective and sit on the other side of the desk as the manager you are writing, who is working 10 - 12 hours a day with regular meetings that must be prepared in detail in advance,a flow of  people wanting instant decisions, etc.  If your letter made it past the manager's Executive Assistant, if you are the manager, be honest how would you handle this precedent setting request? Would you take valuable time to do the research, when you have a critical preparation that has a hard deadline.  Would you take this to your boss requesting his support  to set a precedent change to an existing approved corporate policy. And also his approval to pay the legal team to analyze the liability aspects at hundreds of dollars per hour to the department budget.  Be the manager, find the pros and the cons for Amtrak.  By the way, you should always find in any decision you make, at least three pros and three cons, if you don't you are not being objective.  

 

I hope this helps you.  The best of luck in everything you do.



#64 Ryan

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 04:10 AM

So is my best shot to get an executive order for an exception?


Your best shot is to realize the rules apply to you and forget it.

Your inability to do so indicates that you don't have the maturity you think you do and is making the case that in an alternative reality where such waivers exist that you wouldn't qualify.
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#65 jebr

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 09:27 AM

It seems like it'd be easier to rally community support to get the Columbus station re-staffed than it would be to try and convince Amtrak to loosen their underage child policy for unstaffed stations.



#66 zephyr17

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:02 PM

So is my best shot to get an executive order for an exception?

Not...going...to...happen.


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#67 fairviewroad

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 03:08 PM

I was thinking much more in depth, like an hour long interview to determine the capability of the traveler. Or perhaps an executive order of some sort

 

 

Great news!  I pulled some strings, and ...

 

 

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#68 jis

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 03:27 PM

ROTFL!



#69 JayPea

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 03:32 PM

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Amtrak miles traveled: 85410
Pre-Amtrak miles traveled:8478
Bustitution miles traveled:450
States traveled through on Amtrak: 44

#70 BCL

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 03:48 PM

I started thinking about this, and there is basically one way to do this, and that's find someone at least 18 to go with you.  Pretty simple.  No rules are broken and no exceptions are needed.

 

I started thinking about what it would be like if perhaps someone like the President's kid wanted to take Amtrak as an unaccompanied minor.  That lasted about 10 seconds.  The kid would have a Secret Service detail serving as the responsible adult.  On top of that they would be considered on-duty law enforcement, so they would be allowed to carry their weapons.  Didn't Biden ride Amtrak while he was VP?  I know his trip back home after the inauguration was via Amtrak.  I think he still gets a Secret Service detail for a few months.  And I remember Chris Christie was on Amtrak, and I'm pretty sure he got his own protective detail.



#71 daybeers

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:40 PM

I started thinking about this, and there is basically one way to do this, and that's find someone at least 18 to go with you.  Pretty simple.  No rules are broken and no exceptions are needed.

 

I started thinking about what it would be like if perhaps someone like the President's kid wanted to take Amtrak as an unaccompanied minor.  That lasted about 10 seconds.  The kid would have a Secret Service detail serving as the responsible adult.  On top of that they would be considered on-duty law enforcement, so they would be allowed to carry their weapons.  Didn't Biden ride Amtrak while he was VP?  I know his trip back home after the inauguration was via Amtrak.  I think he still gets a Secret Service detail for a few months.  And I remember Chris Christie was on Amtrak, and I'm pretty sure he got his own protective detail.

Oh yeah, one of Joe Biden's nicknames is 'Amtrak Joe!' They have even named the Wilmington, DE station (his home station) after him: it's now called the Joseph R. Biden Jr. Railroad Station.


Amtrak travel so far: only 8,967 miles: Springfield Shuttle (10), Lake Shore Limited (2), Northeast Regional (20), Acela (1), Pennsylvanian (2), Capitol Limited (1)

Ambus mileage: 72


#72 BCL

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 12:19 AM

Oh yeah, one of Joe Biden's nicknames is 'Amtrak Joe!' They have even named the Wilmington, DE station (his home station) after him: it's now called the Joseph R. Biden Jr. Railroad Station.

 

I wasn't sure if he did that a whole lot while he was VP.  I do remember that he was a huge Amtrak proponent, and that he rode Amtrak home after leaving office.



#73 daybeers

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 12:39 AM

Oh yeah, one of Joe Biden's nicknames is 'Amtrak Joe!' They have even named the Wilmington, DE station (his home station) after him: it's now called the Joseph R. Biden Jr. Railroad Station.

I wasn't sure if he did that a whole lot while he was VP.  I do remember that he was a huge Amtrak proponent, and that he rode Amtrak home after leaving office.

I don't know if he used Amtrak a lot while VP, but he certainly did when he was a Senator.


Amtrak travel so far: only 8,967 miles: Springfield Shuttle (10), Lake Shore Limited (2), Northeast Regional (20), Acela (1), Pennsylvanian (2), Capitol Limited (1)

Ambus mileage: 72


#74 norfolkwesternhenry

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 12:46 AM

So is my best shot to get an executive order for an exception?

 
Now you're just being silly.  You claim to be mature enough to do this, but then don't understand why the policy exists, why exceptions aren't made, and how much in resources you're asking of Amtrak just to make an exception for you?  Do you think that they'd be willing to consider an executive order to allow pets because someone claims that their pet can handle it?  Or that someone has a gun permit and wants to be able to carry a loaded weapon on board?
 
All the reasons for a uniform policy that is applied evenly without exceptions has been laid out here.  A policy is very difficult to implement if executives can simply override it based on a letter written to Amtrak.
 
In short, you have no shot.  Wait until you turn 16, and you'll be able to ride Amtrak anywhere you want without restriction.  Perhaps you think that's unfair, but to Amtrak I'm not special, you're not special, and that's just the way it is.  You can always try, but I can almost assure you that your response will be some form letter that they can't make any exceptions to their published policy.
sorry if I seem silly, I try to find ways to get exceptions, when I don't like the rules. I've written papers and submitred them to my principle to request an exception to the phone policy, as I felt like I could handle having a phone. (I basically use my phone for AU, texting with parents and a few select friends, and music). If I don't like the rules, I try to change them. I fully acknowlege this may not work (it rarely does), but I always am willing to give it a shot.

Empire Builder MSP-CHI (2) CHI-MSP (2) MSP-PDX (1) MSP-CBS (5.5 H late) (1) MKE-MSP (1) MSP-SEA (1) Coast Starlate PDX-EMY (1.5H late) (1) California Zephyr DEN-SLC (1H late) (1) Hiawatha CHI-MKE (1) NE Regional WAS-BAL (1) WAS-NYP (1) Acela Express BAL-WAS (1) BOS-WAS (1) Late Shore (Limited service) CHI-BOS (On Time) (1) Capitol Limited WAS-CHI (1) Texas Eagle SAS-CHI (1.5 HR late, 1 HR late) (2) CHI-SAS (1) (55 min early) Wolverine DET-DER-ARB-CHI (35 Min late) (1) Cascades SEA-VAC (1)
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#75 AmtrakBlue

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 04:39 AM

So is my best shot to get an executive order for an exception?

 
Now you're just being silly.  You claim to be mature enough to do this, but then don't understand why the policy exists, why exceptions aren't made, and how much in resources you're asking of Amtrak just to make an exception for you?  Do you think that they'd be willing to consider an executive order to allow pets because someone claims that their pet can handle it?  Or that someone has a gun permit and wants to be able to carry a loaded weapon on board?
 
All the reasons for a uniform policy that is applied evenly without exceptions has been laid out here.  A policy is very difficult to implement if executives can simply override it based on a letter written to Amtrak.
 
In short, you have no shot.  Wait until you turn 16, and you'll be able to ride Amtrak anywhere you want without restriction.  Perhaps you think that's unfair, but to Amtrak I'm not special, you're not special, and that's just the way it is.  You can always try, but I can almost assure you that your response will be some form letter that they can't make any exceptions to their published policy.
sorry if I seem silly, I try to find ways to get exceptions, when I don't like the rules. I've written papers and submitred them to my principle to request an exception to the phone policy, as I felt like I could handle having a phone. (I basically use my phone for AU, texting with parents and a few select friends, and music). If I don't like the rules, I try to change them. I fully acknowlege this may not work (it rarely does), but I always am willing to give it a shot.
Asking for an exception isn't trying to change the rules. It's asking for special privileges.

#76 MikefromCrete

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 07:22 AM

You should probably learn how to spell principal correctly before asking for any exceptions to the rules. 



#77 Johanna

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 07:29 AM

Out of curiosity, do you ever petition for rule changes for the benefit of anybody else, or do you stick to asking for special exceptions for yourself?



#78 A Voice

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 07:43 AM

 

 

So is my best shot to get an executive order for an exception?

 
Now you're just being silly.  You claim to be mature enough to do this, but then don't understand why the policy exists, why exceptions aren't made, and how much in resources you're asking of Amtrak just to make an exception for you?  Do you think that they'd be willing to consider an executive order to allow pets because someone claims that their pet can handle it?  Or that someone has a gun permit and wants to be able to carry a loaded weapon on board?
 
All the reasons for a uniform policy that is applied evenly without exceptions has been laid out here.  A policy is very difficult to implement if executives can simply override it based on a letter written to Amtrak.
 
In short, you have no shot.  Wait until you turn 16, and you'll be able to ride Amtrak anywhere you want without restriction.  Perhaps you think that's unfair, but to Amtrak I'm not special, you're not special, and that's just the way it is.  You can always try, but I can almost assure you that your response will be some form letter that they can't make any exceptions to their published policy.
sorry if I seem silly, I try to find ways to get exceptions, when I don't like the rules. I've written papers and submitred them to my principle to request an exception to the phone policy, as I felt like I could handle having a phone. (I basically use my phone for AU, texting with parents and a few select friends, and music). If I don't like the rules, I try to change them. I fully acknowlege this may not work (it rarely does), but I always am willing to give it a shot.

 

 

'Not liking a rule' is neither a valid nor a reasonable basis for seeking to change it, or for trying to get an exception.  Rules exist for a reason; You and I - and the other members of this forum - are not special, where the rules only apply to everyone else but shouldn't for us.  It is true that many times a specific regulation or law may be written like it is because a few people have ruined an opportunity for the rest of us, but we still have to live within the same guidelines.  

 

Exceptions to rules should only exist when there is a specific and documented need, often a hardship case.  While I admire your perseverance and enthusiasm, you really don't have a valid cause for seeking an exception.  But you do have options to live within the rules - which apply to all of us - and still travel by rail.  You can find an adult to go with you, stick to staffed stations, or just wait a matter of months until your next birthday and take a bigger trip then.  I know having to wait seems like an eternity when you're young, but it really isn't (you'll realize this in 30 years or so).  I realize this isn't the answer you want - but it is a solution, which is what you should be seeking.  

 

As suggested by someone above, if a rule truly is unreasonable you should be seeking to change it for everyone, not just solve your own problem and leave everyone else out in the cold.  But if the rule is not unreasonable, but rather just something you find inconvenient or don't like, then you have to find a way to live within the restriction just like the rest of us.  



#79 BCL

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 10:12 AM

 

 

So is my best shot to get an executive order for an exception?

 
Now you're just being silly.  You claim to be mature enough to do this, but then don't understand why the policy exists, why exceptions aren't made, and how much in resources you're asking of Amtrak just to make an exception for you?  Do you think that they'd be willing to consider an executive order to allow pets because someone claims that their pet can handle it?  Or that someone has a gun permit and wants to be able to carry a loaded weapon on board?
 
All the reasons for a uniform policy that is applied evenly without exceptions has been laid out here.  A policy is very difficult to implement if executives can simply override it based on a letter written to Amtrak.
 
In short, you have no shot.  Wait until you turn 16, and you'll be able to ride Amtrak anywhere you want without restriction.  Perhaps you think that's unfair, but to Amtrak I'm not special, you're not special, and that's just the way it is.  You can always try, but I can almost assure you that your response will be some form letter that they can't make any exceptions to their published policy.
sorry if I seem silly, I try to find ways to get exceptions, when I don't like the rules. I've written papers and submitred them to my principle to request an exception to the phone policy, as I felt like I could handle having a phone. (I basically use my phone for AU, texting with parents and a few select friends, and music). If I don't like the rules, I try to change them. I fully acknowlege this may not work (it rarely does), but I always am willing to give it a shot.

 

Well, the one thing you don’t seem to understand very well is the predicament that such a request is going put someone in.  You’re not asking for an exception or rule change back to the way things were.  You’re asking for something that never was (an unaccompanied minor departing at an unstaffed station) under the previous policy.  You’re suggesting that either the policy be changed (almost assuredly won’t happen), or that you be granted a one-off exception (absolutely won’t happen).  And on top of that you seem to believe that someone at Amtrak might consider a detailed, time-sucking interview in order to make that exception - either for you personally or as part of a general policy update.  Nobody has been trained as to how to conduct such an interview.  So who is going to conduct it, where/when does it happens, and who fills in for someone tied up for an hour talking to you?  You’re talking about a rail system where over 100,000 passengers ride every weekday and where station staffing levels already aren’t adequate.

 

Amtrak’s unaccompanied minor policy being restricted to travel between two staffed stations is a totally reasonable rule.  Save the limitation for 13-15, it’s pretty similar to that of most airlines.  Airports are by definition staffed, so there isn’t quite the equivalent of an unstaffed train station.  It’s pretty easy to understand how this rule works and that liability concerns drive the policy.  If you write your letter to Amtrak asking for either an exception or a policy change, I’d be surprised if the first person to read it wouldn’t be thinking “Well isn’t that cute?” before changing to "Is this kid for real?"  Maybe you might even get a response that’s more than just a form letter.  Maybe.

 

You started this topic by saying that you thought that you might deserve an exception because you don’t consider yourself part of the general public.  Maybe they won’t respond as such, but it would be good for one heck of a laugh.  Maybe even shared around the office for the sheer chutzpah.  I can’t necessarily speak for others responding to you in this topic who are obviously mocking you, but just don’t embarrass yourself.  Just don’t.



#80 norfolkwesternhenry

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 10:20 AM

Ok, I won't. I have been relying on the EB to get to my grandma's, as my parents don't always have the time. We don't have money problems, but times problems are much bigger for them. As you can imagine I'm disapointed, and the fact that I can't get to my grandma's house means I can't help keep her house and property in good shape, as she is getting too old for upkeep on 7 acres. It's especially important now, because she's had surgery on both shoulders and is only cleared to lift an apple with her right arm. Also, it's another train ride, and who can't turn that down?

Edited by norfolkwesternhenry, 20 June 2017 - 10:26 AM.

Empire Builder MSP-CHI (2) CHI-MSP (2) MSP-PDX (1) MSP-CBS (5.5 H late) (1) MKE-MSP (1) MSP-SEA (1) Coast Starlate PDX-EMY (1.5H late) (1) California Zephyr DEN-SLC (1H late) (1) Hiawatha CHI-MKE (1) NE Regional WAS-BAL (1) WAS-NYP (1) Acela Express BAL-WAS (1) BOS-WAS (1) Late Shore (Limited service) CHI-BOS (On Time) (1) Capitol Limited WAS-CHI (1) Texas Eagle SAS-CHI (1.5 HR late, 1 HR late) (2) CHI-SAS (1) (55 min early) Wolverine DET-DER-ARB-CHI (35 Min late) (1) Cascades SEA-VAC (1)
Non-Amtrak: VIA: Corridor Service Q.C.-Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto-Windsor (1) Canadian: VAC-Winnipeg 4.5 H late (1) D. C. metro, Montreal Metro, Toronto subway, Portland streetcars, BART, Metra, NYC subway, Boston subway, Twin cities Blue/Green line





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