Public's Perception of Amtrak
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norfolkwesternhenry
Lead Service Attendant
Usually most people only rate when they recieve bad experiences. Unfirtunately, these people don't understand Amtraks situation. If these people were educated about Amtraks situation, they might understand why these kind of things happen.
tricia
Conductor
Amtrak's wildly inconsistent quality of service invites reviews like this. And I expect they cost Amtrak both customers and political support. Reputations don't equal the average of all customer experiences--individual bad experiences outweigh a larger number of good or indifferent ones.
KmH
Engineer
Gotta agree with tricia but I also think many unhappy train travelers don't do any due diligence and as a result have unrealistic expectations.
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Unrealistic expectations and not understanding rail travel. Some would be unhappy with airline travel as well since their expectations are a perfect world, If the reasonable travelers understood what could be had Congress supported Amtrak, maybe they would refocus onto those in Washington.
Philly Amtrak Fan
Engineer
Amtrak does have more formal statistics on customer satisfaction than some outside website although you can debate if there is any bias. I agree with the idea that people are more likely to complain than praise in some of these comments sections.
I don't know how important customer satisfaction really affects financial performance/popularity. We all have had bad experiences in travel but does that make us stop traveling? In the case of air travel, if one airline ticks you off then you can fly another one (assuming more than one airline serves the specific city pair(s) of interest). In intercity train travel, if the experience sucks, what is your alternative? Sure poor customer experience can hurt ridership but I'm not sure it is as big a factor as people think.
I don't know how important customer satisfaction really affects financial performance/popularity. We all have had bad experiences in travel but does that make us stop traveling? In the case of air travel, if one airline ticks you off then you can fly another one (assuming more than one airline serves the specific city pair(s) of interest). In intercity train travel, if the experience sucks, what is your alternative? Sure poor customer experience can hurt ridership but I'm not sure it is as big a factor as people think.
Chessie
Service Attendant
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"The lack of investment in the infrastructure really shows. The people who work for them, in the main, do their best but there is a large swathe of employees who appear to like the trains but not the people who buy the tickets to ride them."
StriderGDM
OBS Chief
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Which situation? The fairly inconsistent service? Sorry, that's entirely on Amtrak. Yes, late, delayed trains can sometimes be blamed on the host railroads or lack of money, but the inconsistent customer service? That's entirely on Amtrak.
Philly Amtrak Fan
Engineer
If you think Amtrak's rating is bad...
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/united.html
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/american_airlines.htm
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/delta.htm
Southwest's ratings are much higher than those three and Amtrak's though: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/southwest.html
Greyhound is also worse than Amtrak...
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/greyhound.html
To most people travel is a necessary evil. They either have to or want to be on the other end but getting there to most people (judging by these ratings) is an unpleasant experience. That's why I still think anyone who takes the TE from CHI to LAX instead of the SWC and spending a whole extra day getting there is crazy.
IMO the train experience is still better than both the airplane and bus (more comfortable seats, more legroom, the ability to move around and I would guess that most people traveling each mode for the same amount of time would favor the train experience over bus/rail. The plane will always be faster and for most travel above around 400 miles air travel will always be the most popular no matter how many times United literally throws passengers off planes. Trains should be more popular than buses but I'm guessing buses have more coverage and cheaper prices in general so they are more popular than trains for intercity travel (although I would guess trains would be more popular than buses for trips above 400 miles).
Again, people can complain all they want about the travel experience but it rarely stops them from doing so.
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/united.html
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/american_airlines.htm
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/delta.htm
Southwest's ratings are much higher than those three and Amtrak's though: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/southwest.html
Greyhound is also worse than Amtrak...
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/greyhound.html
To most people travel is a necessary evil. They either have to or want to be on the other end but getting there to most people (judging by these ratings) is an unpleasant experience. That's why I still think anyone who takes the TE from CHI to LAX instead of the SWC and spending a whole extra day getting there is crazy.
IMO the train experience is still better than both the airplane and bus (more comfortable seats, more legroom, the ability to move around and I would guess that most people traveling each mode for the same amount of time would favor the train experience over bus/rail. The plane will always be faster and for most travel above around 400 miles air travel will always be the most popular no matter how many times United literally throws passengers off planes. Trains should be more popular than buses but I'm guessing buses have more coverage and cheaper prices in general so they are more popular than trains for intercity travel (although I would guess trains would be more popular than buses for trips above 400 miles).
Again, people can complain all they want about the travel experience but it rarely stops them from doing so.
Chessie
Service Attendant
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The thing is, not everyone likes trains for the same reason.
Some are train lovers. They love the mechanic aspect of the engines. Eg, foamers, train spotters.
Some are train ride lovers. They love the journey aspect. The longer the trip the merrier.
Some are not train lovers at all. They take trains out of necessity because they cannot fly for some reason.
On AU, most are from camp 1 or 2. Plus some Amtrak affiliated people. If you are from camp 3, you will find your perspective very different.
I don't mean to quibble over a minor point, but the majority of train passengers care nothing about the trains themselves or the train journey and are perfectly capable of flying to any destination - and sometimes do.. People take the train for any number of reasons - convenience, schedule, personal preference, lack of hassle associated with air travel, etc. But the biggest reason might be simply to avoid driving; It is the automobile - not the airplane - which is the passenger trains' primary competition (generally, even in corridors).
If Amtrak's business was based primarily on train lovers and those who can't fly, no train would need be more than one car long.
ehbowen
Engineer
While I would be unlikely to choose the Texas Eagle over the Southwest Chief for a trip between Chicago and Los Angeles, I would be quite willing to consider it for a trip between Los Angeles and Little Rock or between Chicago and Tucson....
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Chessie
Service Attendant
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I don't disagree for the most part. But to your last point I think only in short to medium distances, corridors most definitely. LD trains' competition is still flying.
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I have found that the majority of people think their only travel options to be driving or flying in the US and Canada. When I say I go by Amtrak, most times I get a puzzled look, so I have to explain Amtrak is not just the NEC.
From endpoint to endpoint (both major destinations, with frequent, reasonably priced air service) possibly. Most long-distance (LD) route business, however, is to and from intermediate points, many of which don't have air service to begin with. Further, many passengers are not actually travelling all that far; Average distances vary by route, but figure for 400-600 miles or so while the train or automobile are both slower than flying (its not a race anyway), both remain quite competitive.
My girl friend is in camp three. She prefers the train to driving because she likes the freedom to move around. When she complains it's usually because it's too cold or drafty in the business class car on Lincoln service trains. She's aware of cleanliness issues and cleans the tray and surfaces at her seat. On the last trip in April she noticed that the equipment appeared to be in better condition than previous trips.
She has experienced one serious delay of 7 hours. This was her letter to Moorman.
Mr. Charles W. Moorman IV
Amtrak President and CEO
60 Massachusetts Ave., NE
Washington, DC 20002
Dear Mr. Charles W. Moorman IV,
I was on board Amtrak 303 on 12/10/16. This train experienced a delay of 7 hours 30 minutes on a trip that normally takes 5 hours and 30 minutes. Shortly after we left Chicago the train stopped and there was an announcement that the air compressor in the engine had malfunctioned. We waited a couple of hours and a replacement locomotive from the CN railroad was attached to our train. We continued our way. The CN locomotive experienced more problems and the train was unable to run at top speed. We eventually stopped and sat. Eventually the train that left Chicago at 1:45 pm caught up to 303. Both trains, if I understand correctly, were combined. At this point we we're already about 5 hours late. We lost an additional 2 or 3 hours because we were late and had to take the sidings for meets with other trains. In addition to the delays, the heat was often off in the business class end of the car so I had to sit at the tables in the other end of the car to stay warm. I wore my heavy winter coat for most of the trip.
Mr. Moorman, the Midwest hub out of Chicago needs your assistance in achieving a stronger safety and service culture for Amtrak. You need to determine how the air compressor failed 20 minutes into the trip. This one component had gigantic ramification on the safety of the Amtrak crew and the passengers. I agree with Mr. Anthony Coscia and the Board of Directors at Amtrak that Mr. Moorman can further launch initiatives that will further enhance safety and customer service as well as modernize operations and guide in the implementation of the FAST ACT.
On a positive note, there were three employees who showed respect, consideration, cooperation, and appreciation of each other as well as the passengers as they worked together as a team to provide unparalleled service during adversity. The first was the Lead service attendant, Dan, in the snack car. He kept the business class passengers updated throughout the duration of the trip. Since the intercom was not working he got information from the conductor and relayed it to the business class passengers. He stayed on his feet working the entire trip. I never saw him sit down to take a break. At the end of the trip he helped with my luggage and helped me off the train.
The second person I would like compliment is the conductor, Lynn. Because of her efforts, we were blessed to arrive in St. Louis safely.
After the air compressor in the original engine failed, Conductor Lynn did her intelligent best with a very complicated situation. Conductor Lynn efforts to communicate the dispatcher and Amtrak management to get a replacement engine were commendable. Then, later in the trip she again had to work with the dispatcher, Amtrak management, and the crew of train 21 to combine 21 and 303 so that we could continue safely to our destination.
Lastly, the African American red cap in the St. Louis station was very helpful. Many passengers were verbally abusive towards him because they were frustrated about the delays. Some used profanity. This man remained calm and helpful to each of the passengers he helped regardless of their treatment of him. When Dan placed my luggage on the platform the redcap placed them on the cart and drove me and the other passengers to the cab stand where I had only a few steps to take to the cab. I gladly gave him a tip. Some of the other ladies on the redcap cart who had originally been abusive tipped him too. One also apologized for the passengers’ treatment of him.
Respectfully,
Identifying information removed.
She has is still riding Amtrak. I helped her understand as and write about the combination of trains. The rest of the letter was completely her ideas.
She has experienced one serious delay of 7 hours. This was her letter to Moorman.
Mr. Charles W. Moorman IV
Amtrak President and CEO
60 Massachusetts Ave., NE
Washington, DC 20002
Dear Mr. Charles W. Moorman IV,
I was on board Amtrak 303 on 12/10/16. This train experienced a delay of 7 hours 30 minutes on a trip that normally takes 5 hours and 30 minutes. Shortly after we left Chicago the train stopped and there was an announcement that the air compressor in the engine had malfunctioned. We waited a couple of hours and a replacement locomotive from the CN railroad was attached to our train. We continued our way. The CN locomotive experienced more problems and the train was unable to run at top speed. We eventually stopped and sat. Eventually the train that left Chicago at 1:45 pm caught up to 303. Both trains, if I understand correctly, were combined. At this point we we're already about 5 hours late. We lost an additional 2 or 3 hours because we were late and had to take the sidings for meets with other trains. In addition to the delays, the heat was often off in the business class end of the car so I had to sit at the tables in the other end of the car to stay warm. I wore my heavy winter coat for most of the trip.
Mr. Moorman, the Midwest hub out of Chicago needs your assistance in achieving a stronger safety and service culture for Amtrak. You need to determine how the air compressor failed 20 minutes into the trip. This one component had gigantic ramification on the safety of the Amtrak crew and the passengers. I agree with Mr. Anthony Coscia and the Board of Directors at Amtrak that Mr. Moorman can further launch initiatives that will further enhance safety and customer service as well as modernize operations and guide in the implementation of the FAST ACT.
On a positive note, there were three employees who showed respect, consideration, cooperation, and appreciation of each other as well as the passengers as they worked together as a team to provide unparalleled service during adversity. The first was the Lead service attendant, Dan, in the snack car. He kept the business class passengers updated throughout the duration of the trip. Since the intercom was not working he got information from the conductor and relayed it to the business class passengers. He stayed on his feet working the entire trip. I never saw him sit down to take a break. At the end of the trip he helped with my luggage and helped me off the train.
The second person I would like compliment is the conductor, Lynn. Because of her efforts, we were blessed to arrive in St. Louis safely.
After the air compressor in the original engine failed, Conductor Lynn did her intelligent best with a very complicated situation. Conductor Lynn efforts to communicate the dispatcher and Amtrak management to get a replacement engine were commendable. Then, later in the trip she again had to work with the dispatcher, Amtrak management, and the crew of train 21 to combine 21 and 303 so that we could continue safely to our destination.
Lastly, the African American red cap in the St. Louis station was very helpful. Many passengers were verbally abusive towards him because they were frustrated about the delays. Some used profanity. This man remained calm and helpful to each of the passengers he helped regardless of their treatment of him. When Dan placed my luggage on the platform the redcap placed them on the cart and drove me and the other passengers to the cab stand where I had only a few steps to take to the cab. I gladly gave him a tip. Some of the other ladies on the redcap cart who had originally been abusive tipped him too. One also apologized for the passengers’ treatment of him.
Respectfully,
Identifying information removed.
She has is still riding Amtrak. I helped her understand as and write about the combination of trains. The rest of the letter was completely her ideas.
dogbert617
OBS Chief
I totally forgot about the Consumer Affairs website! Hadn't looked at that site in ages. Will have to see how Megabus is rated on there later, just outta curiosity.
That's interesting how Southwest is rated higher than Amtrak. I do wonder if some of those negative raters would've rated Amtrak more fairly, if more of those reviewers were aware Amtrak is at the mercy of freight railroads(for their long distance trains) when it comes to how quickly it'll arrive into stations?
VentureForth
Engineer
Passengers don't care about that crap. They only care about price, schedule, and reliability. When they are burned, they don't care why. And they are likely not to return.
Whether a passenger comes out of an experience feeling burned depends a lot on their expectations going in. I noticed a lot of complaints from people who booked LD train trips expecting to be somewhere/attend some event/meet up with someone within an hour or two of the scheduled arrival. Experienced Amtrak riders know that that's a recipe for disaster - that LD trains are often several hours late (for reasons that are not always Amtrak's fault), so if you absolutely need to be somewhere at a particular time, you need to have a scheduled arrival time that's much earlier, or you need to choose another mode of transportation.
It frustrates me a lot that we can't count on Amtrak schedules to be very much more than suggestions, but so far that hasn't been enough to put me off Amtrak entirely, because I'm aware of the reality of the situation and am able to plan around it. I feel bad for the people who aren't.
tricia
Conductor
I agree with VentureForth, but would add "courtesy." I think most people are apt to be more forgiving about, say, a train running late if the reason for it is explained in a polite and timely manner, and less apt to forgive an experience with staff being rude, nasty, or indifferent. Amtrak's inconsistent--and sometimes poor--customer service is both bad for Amtrak in itself, and exacerbates customers' dissatisfaction with other problems.
Chessie
Service Attendant
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- 161
I quite agree about setting the appropriate customer expectation, especially in LD traveling. But it can be a little tricky to do it without sounding ridiculous.
"Due to circumstances beyond our control, the train is frequently hours late" just doesn't sound quite enticing. :giggle:
"Due to circumstances beyond our control, the train is frequently hours late" just doesn't sound quite enticing. :giggle:
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FreeskierInVT
Lead Service Attendant
When booking a ticket on VIA Rail's Canadian, a message in bolded blue text appears to try and set the customer's expectation:
While I haven't yet ridden the Canadian, I definitely think this is a good idea to have posted while booking tickets since the train is frequently many hours late. Perhaps Amtrak should have something similar.
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I will say this about flying, as soon as you need to be at someplace at a specific time and you schedule your flights with hour or two buffer, the airlines make you pay for it. I have found arriving the day of with connecting flights, when your schedule is flexible always works out as planned. It is those day of inflexibility that I have learned to travel the day before. The last thing you want to do is postpone a meeting with a CEO or Board of Directors. So those who say one can always depend on the airlines, hasn't traveled much. Flying 150-200 legs a year plus train train travel, you quickly learn.
ehbowen
Engineer
On my return from my recent conference and vacation in St. Louis, we had a 6 hour delay into Houston due to track work and a service disruption (the previous northbound Eagle had arrived into St. Louis too late for the operating crew to get their required rest before scheduled departure, and due to Amtrak's penny pinching there was no one available on the extra board). There were several complaints from other Amtrak passengers...but the very next day I also heard griping from some airline passengers who had been traveling via Phoenix and had been held up five hours due to weather. C'est la vie....
