San Joaquin

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Woodcut60

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This is not a big issue at all, but I'm just curious.

I rode the San Joaquin in 2012 and in brochures and timetables from that period the train is presented as the San Joaquin (without an s). Now, in marketing stuff and train schedules the train's name is San Joaquins (with an s). Does anyone know why Amtrak changed this? With an s sounds a bit silly to my ears, like saying the Crescents or the California Zephyrs.
 
This is not a big issue at all, but I'm just curious.

I rode the San Joaquin in 2012 and in brochures and timetables from that period the train is presented as the San Joaquin (without an s). Now, in marketing stuff and train schedules the train's name is San Joaquins (with an s). Does anyone know why Amtrak changed this? With an s sounds a bit silly to my ears, like saying the Crescents or the California Zephyrs.
Well, if there were four train frequencies operating between New York and New Orleans every day (I can dream!) each operating as the Crescent, it seems that it would make sense to refer to the whole group as the Crescents.

(Both historically and practically, this kind of naming has worked much better for short-distance corridor trains than for overnight or all-day long-distance trains.)
 
Okay, so logically speaking we should be referring to, for example, the Pacific Surfliner and the Downeaster in plural? Those two have high daily frequencies as well. But so far only the San Joaquin has got this plural-s. Again, no big deal, but a little bit inconsistent.
 
There's also the cascades, though that is the actual title of the trains
 
The brochures and timetables for the San Joaquin(s) are produced by the local California authority that runs the trains. So they're just taking a different approach. Anytime there are more than one roundtrip using the same name, it would seem proper to use the plural when referring to the Hiawathas, Pacific Surfliners and Downeasters, but not when the name defines the service such as the Capital Corridor, Lincoln Service and Wolverine Service. The Silver Star and Silver Meteor are often referred to as the "Silvers."
 
I wouldn't be surprised if it has something to do with Amtrak being able to get a registered trademark/service mark for the train names -- denoting those is something I've only been noticing in the timetables for the past few years.

My guess is that the lawyers told them "San Joaquin" was too generic, but "San Joaquins" might suffice. Although as you can see from the contents page of the national timetable, they haven't gotten it into registered status yet (there's an "SM" next to it, not an "®").

"Cascades" does seem similarly generic, but note that it's actually "Amtrak Cascades" -- presumably the operating structure involving the Joint Powers Authority means "Amtrak San Joaquin" wasn't an option as an official train name.

As for why they didn't instead go with "San Joaquin Service," same as "Wolverine Service" or "Hiawatha Service," I have no idea.

VCqAL1F.png
 
I wouldn't be surprised if it has something to do with Amtrak being able to get a registered trademark/service mark for the train names -- denoting those is something I've only been noticing in the timetables for the past few years.

My guess is that the lawyers told them "San Joaquin" was too generic, but "San Joaquins" might suffice. Although as you can see from the contents page of the national timetable, they haven't gotten it into registered status yet (there's an "SM" next to it, not an "®").
Looks like Amtrak directly trademarked "San Joaquin" as it relates to railroad transportation.

https://trademarks.justia.com/773/24/san-77324999.html

Serial Number 77324999

Registration Number 3475453

Word Mark SAN JOAQUIN

Statements

Goods and Services Railroad transportation services

Current Trademark Owners

Party Name National Railroad Passenger Corporation

My guess is that there's more than one route (endpoint at Sacramento or Oakland) via a split, so they want to make it seem like it's a series of different trains.
 
"My guess is that there's more than one route (endpoint at Sacramento or Oakland) via a split, so they want to make it seem like it's a series of different trains."

That seems plausible, yes. And with that logic one can refer to the Empire Builder in plural as well (two different trains: Chicago-Seattle; Chicago-Portland). The Empire Builders makes more sense.

Thank you all for your contributions. Again, no big issue, but an interesting one. Thanks.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
"San Joaquins" is the name of the service. Any particular train is "a San Joaquin."

Both "Capitol Corridor" and "Pacific Surfliner" refer to the routes. When talking about the train, they are called "Capitol Corridor trains" and "Pacific Surfliners."
 
It was probably an old legacy name from when there was only one daily round trip. As additional service operated, no one thought to make it plural.
 
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