No smoking at MKE platform, effective May 2017

According to the Empire Builder conductor 7(16), although there is a fresh air break, no smoking is allowed on the platform. My attendant informed me that this new law, promulgated by the Wisconsin DOT, went into effect a couple of days ago. Smokers were not happy. Non-smokers were happy.

When there is smoking on the platform, no one is a non-smoker.

Good move by Wisconsin DOT.

Looks like the nicotine addicts will be smoking in the Train bathrooms!

Can smoke alarms be far behind like on planes?

WOW! I wish this extends to more fresh-air stops across the network. Currently the term "fresh-air stop" is such a misnomer since you end up getting more unhealthy air there than in the train!

If someone wants to spend money to get cancer for themselves, that's their personal life and their business, but I would love to be able to take fresh-air breaks without being subjected to second-hand smoke from a dozen cigarettes all lit up right outside the door.

If Amtrak does not want to disappoint smokers, maybe they should bundle them all up in one car, so they can get outside that door and smoke, while the rest of us can actually enjoy fresh air at the remaining cars.

Wow, this must be new. I arrived in MKE on the 8 on 5/4, and there was smoking on the platform then.

So now the first smoke break on the 7 (and the last one in the 8) is what, WIN? That's only 5 1/2 hours or so outside of Chicago. If someone can't go 5 1/2 hours without a cigarette, they probably shouldn't be riding long-distance trains to begin with, because there are pairs of fresh air/smoke stops that are farther apart than that. We went more than 8 hours on the 8 the other week - from HAV to MOT, after the fresh air break at WTN was cancelled because we were running behind. (And of course there's always the chance that the train will be stalled for hours - with you stuck on it - somewhere along the way.)

pennyk said:

Smokers were not happy. Non-smokers were happy.

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Penny, the way this is worded got me to laugh. Simply cause I feel like it's something a news anchor would say. :lol:

Johanna said:

Wow, this must be new. I arrived in MKE on the 8 on 5/4, and there was smoking on the platform then.

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I mean call me crazy, but it is mentioned in the OP that it went into effect a couple of days ago. Reading is your friend.

We stopped in Winona, and it was announced that it would be a smoking stop.

Acela150 said:

Johanna said:

Wow, this must be new. I arrived in MKE on the 8 on 5/4, and there was smoking on the platform then.

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I mean call me crazy, but it is mentioned in the OP that it went into effect a couple of days ago. Reading is your friend.

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Actually, as long as we're playing the reading comprehension game, she said that her attendant said that it went into effect a couple of days ago. Maybe you've never known an Amtrak employee to be mistaken about anything (or to say "a couple" when they mean "twelve"), but I certainly have.

Looks lime I picked a bad time to start smoking.

Interesting, because there has been a no-smoking policy at ALL Amtrak stations on the platform and in the station for nearly a decade. It was ironic that if you're waiting to board the train on the platform, you can't smoke. But you could step off and smoke.

I'm ok with this. Open the door away from platform side for the smokers,provided it's not a busy mainline...

Considering that most LD trains run around 8-10 cars (not counting bags/locomotives), having a single designated "smoker's door" at one end of the train would seem to work around that. Yes, I know the point about "smoke travels" but when you've got 750+ feet of train that should give you plenty of room to avoid the smoke and still get some fresh air.

So, silly-sounding but irresistable question: If the train arrives for a long stop (think JAX or ABQ) can you board, drop your bags, and then step back off to smoke? (There's a comedy skit in here somewhere)

that's a Wisconsin owned station IIRC, and Wisconsin has fairly strict laws about smoking in public space. I doubt it's an Amtrak call, and it is highly doubtful they will look to get involved.

I have asthma. Smoking/fresh air stops have never bothered me. This is a bit over the top. Another example of our nanny state where nannies micromanage us.

Iirc there was a new train shed built in Milwaukee. Maybe this prompted the change.

The only other stations that I can think of with train sheds are chi, nyp and phl. Chicago is a terminal station so a smoking ban makes sense there. Nyp and phl are too busy for extended smoke stops. And are not allowed on the platforms long enough to smoke before the train arrives.

I am actually allergic to tobacco smoke and I'm just as glad to see it banned here: Milwaukee has a full trainshed and is effectively indoors.

Seriously, smokers can get the patch and the gum over the counter now; they should be able to get their nicotine fix without spraying it in the air.

Texan Eagle said:

WOW! I wish this extends to more fresh-air stops across the network. Currently the term "fresh-air stop" is such a misnomer since you end up getting more unhealthy air there than in the train!

If someone wants to spend money to get cancer for themselves, that's their personal life and their business, but I would love to be able to take fresh-air breaks without being subjected to second-hand smoke from a dozen cigarettes all lit up right outside the door.

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Agree with the "fresh-air stop" being a misnomer.

Texan Eagle said:

If Amtrak does not want to disappoint smokers, maybe they should bundle them all up in one car, so they can get outside that door and smoke, while the rest of us can actually enjoy fresh air at the remaining cars.

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They used to do that, but it was "in a designated portion of the lounge area".

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19970511n&item=0026

I forget the layout there but it certainly made the lounge car less appealing with the cigarette smoke and/or the smell. If there is any chance of a private car that can leave the smoke out of public areas including the lounge and diner/cross country cafe cars, I'd be OK with it although I'm not sure it's feasible. I'd probably say the "fresh air" breaks are the lesser of two evils.

The cars use a central ventilation system so smoke would be distributed to all areas of the car. I heard Conductors announce a smoking opportunity but also that smokers were to stand away from the car doors so passengers can get on and off. This also helps to avoid second hand smoke entering the cars.

There was a specific, specially ventilated smoking portion of the lounges that allowed smoking. The filtration system did not feed into other portions of the car. The problem was, if the car was needed elsewhere. It was IMPOSSIBLE to get the smell out. I used to joke that there was no need to actually smoke in that portion. All you needed to do was sniff the walls. The conversion was also expensive since you had to add the ventilation, filtration and walls. I suppose it wasn't worth the expense.

There should be designated smoking locations on the platform, not that some of the smokers pay attention.

What needs to be done is to install a small airtight smoking room at the long station stops that is not vented to the outside. . This way non-smokers can breathe in fresh air and smokers can take in the largest possible amount of high density cigarette smoke.

Lots of the stations are not Amtrak owned, and as such are subject to the laws of the states/municipalities where they are located in. Less and less places permit smoking in public places, including many outdoor places.

Anderson said:

Considering that most LD trains run around 8-10 cars (not counting bags/locomotives), having a single designated "smoker's door" at one end of the train would seem to work around that. Yes, I know the point about "smoke travels" but when you've got 750+ feet of train that should give you plenty of room to avoid the smoke and still get some fresh air.

So, silly-sounding but irresistable question: If the train arrives for a long stop (think JAX or ABQ) can you board, drop your bags, and then step back off to smoke? (There's a comedy skit in here somewhere)

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Am I imagining it or was this the case once when I rode the Cap Limited on the stop in Cumberland.?

Under current rules, you would need to protect employees from working in a known hazardous environment.

One of the reasons for the smoking stop announcements, that smokers have to step far away from the car doors because an attendant and/or conductor is by the doors. Companies have to protect their employees. In the long haul trucking industry, a new driver had to team with a trainer who usually smoked, Now the companies can not demand a non-smoker driver to ride with a smoker driver.

Steve4031 said:

I have asthma. Smoking/fresh air stops have never bothered me. This is a bit over the top. Another example of our nanny state where nannies micromanage us.

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Nanny state implies regulations that prevent you from harming yourself, despite your acceptance of the dangers and willingness to do so. In the case of smokers on the platform I've noticed that even today, when they're extremely unpopular and at risk of losing more rights, many of them still do as little as possible to keep the peace. They often interpret requests in the most lax way possible or simply ignore them altogether. Sometimes they remain so close to the doors that the smoke ends up drifting into the train itself. That kind of passive aggressive attitude rankles nerves and motivates anti-smokers to keep taking more and more rights away. In other words, when it comes to smokers, you reap what you sow.

dlagrua said:

What needs to be done is to install a small airtight smoking room at the long station stops that is not vented to the outside. . This way non-smokers can breathe in fresh air and smokers can take in the largest possible amount of high density cigarette smoke.

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Works for me. Needs just enough oxygen to avoid people randomly passing out. Beyond that it can be full of nicotine and tar and any number of other toxic chemicals that smokers don't mind ingesting.

Philly Amtrak Fan said:

Texan Eagle said:

WOW! I wish this extends to more fresh-air stops across the network. Currently the term "fresh-air stop" is such a misnomer since you end up getting more unhealthy air there than in the train!

If someone wants to spend money to get cancer for themselves, that's their personal life and their business, but I would love to be able to take fresh-air breaks without being subjected to second-hand smoke from a dozen cigarettes all lit up right outside the door.

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Agree with the "fresh-air stop" being a misnomer.

Texan Eagle said:

If Amtrak does not want to disappoint smokers, maybe they should bundle them all up in one car, so they can get outside that door and smoke, while the rest of us can actually enjoy fresh air at the remaining cars.

Click to expand...

They used to do that, but it was "in a designated portion of the lounge area".

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19970511n&item=0026

I forget the layout there but it certainly made the lounge car less appealing with the cigarette smoke and/or the smell. If there is any chance of a private car that can leave the smoke out of public areas including the lounge and diner/cross country cafe cars, I'd be OK with it although I'm not sure it's feasible. I'd probably say the "fresh air" breaks are the lesser of two evils.

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The smoking compartments on the Western LD trains (lower level of one of the coaches, what are now usually lower level coach seating) were the best parties back in the 90s to early 2000s. I had so much fun hanging out in them when I used to take the EB on a regular basis between SEA and CUS when I was in my 20s and early 30s. But as an ex-smoker now if they still existed I'm sure I would be annoyed by them.

Deni said:

The smoking compartments on the Western LD trains (lower level of one of the coaches, what are now usually lower level coach seating) were the best parties back in the 90s to early 2000s. I had so much fun hanging out in them when I used to take the EB on a regular basis between SEA and CUS when I was in my 20s and early 30s. But as an ex-smoker now if they still existed I'm sure I would be annoyed by them.

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My understanding is that the atmosphere in those enclosed smoking rooms became so disgusting that the smokers regularly propped the door open...which kind of defeated the whole purpose.