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#41 Maverickstation

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 02:18 PM

Another story, this from the NY Times, listing how many days services could be impacted.

 

https://www.nytimes....sings.html?_r=0

 

Ken


The poster formally known as Peconicstation.

Location: Boston MA, the greatest city in America, and home of South Station, Amtrak's best large city station.

 


#42 railiner

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 02:24 PM


 

If the LD trains could not run into NYP, would they continue as far as PHL? I have a trip planned to LI in July during a work period, but as long as the train reached PHL I could still make it to the LIRR using a combination of SEPTA, NJT, PATH, and NYC Subway.

I doubt that any LD service will be affected, other than some possible timetable adjustments. I also doubt very much that too many Acelas will be affected, again except for some minor timetable adjustments. What will be most affected are NJT and LIRR Commuter train, which are likely to face significant service reduction over those two periods.
 
Coming to think of it, the one LD train in greatest danger of being affected is the Lake Shore Limited, since it passes through a hard to avoid single point. Although with some care in planning it may be avoidable too. The other trains have many alternative paths through the station, and it is hard to imagine that they will knock out all those paths at the same time.

The Lake Shore (or a special shuttle train from ALB), could operate into NYG during those closures....

I know...the MTA would 'never' allow that....
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#43 jis

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 03:20 PM

The problem will be getting the Lakeshore consist serviced mechanically, specially if a car needs to be swapped out. The same obstruction that keeps it from getting to Penn Station will keep it from getting to Sunnyside, unless a convoluted move via Mott Haven, Woodlawn and New Rochelle is made. Yeah, such has been done before, but just as a one off, not as a daily thing.

Edited by jis, 06 May 2017 - 07:21 AM.


#44 railiner

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 08:34 PM

What I suggested as a possibility, was to turn and service the Lake Shore at ALB, and run a shuttle train to connect it to NYG. Such a train, with say a Dinette, could be stocked for the round trip, and looped at GCT...
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#45 west point

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 10:26 PM

What I suggested as a possibility, was to turn and service the Lake Shore at ALB, and run a shuttle train to connect it to NYG. Such a train, with say a Dinette, could be stocked for the round trip, and looped at GCT...


There would be no way to rotate equipment for its periodic maintenance at MIA. If Amtrak is not able to run ALB > NYP for an extended period some thing will need some rotation thru New Rochelle or BOS if hopefully some diners come from CAF ?

#46 Thirdrail7

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 10:46 PM

 

What I suggested as a possibility, was to turn and service the Lake Shore at ALB, and run a shuttle train to connect it to NYG. Such a train, with say a Dinette, could be stocked for the round trip, and looped at GCT...


There would be no way to rotate equipment for its periodic maintenance at MIA. If Amtrak is not able to run ALB > NYP for an extended period some thing will need some rotation thru New Rochelle or BOS if hopefully some diners come from CAF ?

 

 

If it comes to a long term outage, you will likely see the schedules adjusted so the Lake Shore, Adirondack and Maple Leaf can operate the Hell Gate line.  The complete outage of the impacted tracks shouldn't take too long. It is the rest of the Empire Service that becomes an issue.

 

Even if they used the above plan, it is still easy enough to rotate equipment to MIA. All you have to do is have the equipment continue east on 448 to BOS. At BOS, you add it to ND67 and transfer the car at WAS.  If the car doesn't affect track the MAS for a regional (AM2, AM1, etc), you can add it to 179, which terminates in NYP. They can add it the equipment to 91 or 97 in SSYD. If it is a weekend, they can send it on 169 to WAS and transfer to HIA. This of course assumes that some other facility can't handle the PM work. The PM facilities have increased over the last few years. A car may not have to go to HIA unless there is a major issue.

 

There are always options.


Edited by Thirdrail7, 05 May 2017 - 10:48 PM.

They say laughter is the best medicine. Obviously they never posted on AU.


#47 railiner

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 09:05 AM

I didn't know about the requirement to go to Miami for PM...surprised to hear it could't be accomplished in Chicago...
If that's the case, they could also get the cars from Chicago to Miami via New York on the Cardinal....

But as was said, the outage for the Empire Connection track rehab hopefully wouldn't take too long, making none of those measures necessary...
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#48 jis

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 11:01 AM

The rehab in question is not of the Empire Connection track but of what is called the U Ladder (IIRC) which has to be crossed to get to the Empire Connection. There are ways of working around it with a little careful planning, so the outage should not be long, if there is any at all.

Edited by jis, 06 May 2017 - 05:47 PM.


#49 brianpmcdonnell17

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 09:17 PM

The Amtrak website is showing sold out for the Crescent to all points north of Washington for most of July and August, so I presume it will be terminating and originating there. It
appears that passengers bound for points north of Washington will have to transfer there to a Northeast Regional or Acela. The Cardinal, Silver Star, and Silver Meteor do not appear to be affected. However, multiple
Regionals also appear to be cancelled. Although it is still possible to book tickets for all trains on the Empire Corridor, Grand Central
Terminal is now appearing as a station option so I assume those adjustments will soon follow.

Edited by brianpmcdonnell17, 25 May 2017 - 09:18 PM.

Trains travelled: Capitol Limited WAS-CHI, Carolinian CLT-RGH, Coast Starlight SJC-LAX, Crescent BAL-ATL, Empire Builder MSP-CHI, Empire Service NYP-NFL+NYG-YNY, Lake Shore Limited BOS-ALB, Maple Leaf ALB-NYP, Northeast Regional FBG-RVR+WAS-BOS, Pacific Surfliner LAX-ANA, Pennsylvanian NYP-PGH, Piedmont RGH-DNC, Silver Meteor ORL-NYP, Silver Star FTL-WAS, 2016 Autumn Express NYP-HAR-NYP

Upcoming New Routes: Cardinal CHI-WAS (July), Lake Shore Limited NYP-CHI (December), California Zephyr CHI-RIC (December), Coast Starlight SJC-SEA (December), Empire Builder SEA-MSP (January).

Non Amtrak: Atlanta Streetcar, Caltrain, CTA, DC Streetcar, Hudson-Bergen Light Rail, LIRR, MARC, MARTA, MBTA Subway, Metra, Metrolink, Metro-North, METRO Transit Light Rail, Miami Metrorail, Muni Metro, NJT Commuter Rail, North Star, NYC Subway, PATH, Pittsburgh Light Rail, River Line (NJT), SEPTA Regional Rail, SEPTA Subway, South Shore Line, Sunrail, Staten Island Railway, TECO Streetcar, Tri-Rail, Washington Metro

#50 west point

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 10:56 AM

So far web site shows 7 trains NYP <> WAS cancelled. Crescent cancellations north of WASH will mean one less consist need for the Crescent. Maybe will enable consist to be added to other Crescent consists. That will also help the critical diner situation.

#51 jis

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 11:05 AM

There is an interesting message on trainroders which talks about testing the viability of running some Amtrak Regionals and Acelas to Hoboken, by test running equipment that way. May be just for the purposes of validating contingencies. But clearly, every option is being looked at.



#52 west point

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 11:42 AM

There is an interesting message on trainroders which talks about testing the viability of running some Amtrak Regionals and Acelas to Hoboken, by test running equipment that way. May be just for the purposes of validating contingencies. But clearly, every option is being looked at.


The test running has much merit. Suppose Amtrak finds major problems with the subgrade of a track(s)? It could be while tracks are removed boring samples may be taken? Worse still best to test is case of a North river tunnel bore having to be shut down ? Or the absolute bad a major failure of Portal bridge ?

Edited by west point, 26 May 2017 - 11:44 AM.


#53 PRR 60

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 12:43 PM

I have to say I am very impressed with how Amtrak is approaching this work. Clearly there's a new sheriff in town, and this guy is no-nonsnense. It's basically: here's what we have to do, here's how we have to do it, and all of us, including Amtrak, will share the pain.  There is no way of knowing for sure, but I kind of think that former management would not have taken this straight forward, honest approach.

 

Maybe it's because he's a civil engineer?  ;)



#54 west point

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 12:57 PM

I have to say I am very impressed with how Amtrak is approaching this work. Clearly there's a new sheriff in town, and this guy is no-nonsnense. It's basically: here's what we have to do, here's how we have to do it, and all of us, including Amtrak, will share the pain.  There is no way of knowing for sure, but I kind of think that former management would not have taken this straight forward, honest approach.
 
Maybe it's because he's a civil engineer?  ;)


Yes very true. Amtrak is certainly sharing the pain. More importantly Mooreman is making best use of time to prevent future problems.

#55 jis

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 01:43 PM

I have to say I am very impressed with how Amtrak is approaching this work. Clearly there's a new sheriff in town, and this guy is no-nonsnense. It's basically: here's what we have to do, here's how we have to do it, and all of us, including Amtrak, will share the pain.  There is no way of knowing for sure, but I kind of think that former management would not have taken this straight forward, honest approach.
 
Maybe it's because he's a civil engineer?  ;)

Considering that the pussyfooting over the years by the previous sheriff is what brought us here, I think you are probably right. The primary goal appears to have changed from "keep the political peace at any cost", to "fix the danged thing and take the necessary heat for the overall good of everyone". Now only if Cuomo and Christie could stop grandstanding and get on with the program, but that is unlikely. They have zero understanding of issue and are both ambitious career politicians who don't care much beyond their career, and sometimes they are not even good at that.

Edited by jis, 26 May 2017 - 06:03 PM.


#56 Mystic River Dragon

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 01:53 PM

 

I have to say I am very impressed with how Amtrak is approaching this work. Clearly there's a new sheriff in town, and this guy is no-nonsnense. It's basically: here's what we have to do, here's how we have to do it, and all of us, including Amtrak, will share the pain.  There is no way of knowing for sure, but I kind of think that former management would not have taken this straight forward, honest approach.

 

Maybe it's because he's a civil engineer?  ;)

Considering that the pussyfooting over the years by the previous sheriff is what brought us here, I think you are probably right. The primary goal appears to have changed from "keep the political peace at any cost", to "fix the danged thing and take the necessary heat for the overall good of everyone". Now only if Cuomo and Christie could stop grandstanding and get on with the program, but that is unlikely. They have zero understanding of issue and are both ambitious career politicians who don;t care much beyond their career, and some times they are even not good at that.

 

I agree with both of you completely. I am absolutely fed up with NJ and NY already complaining about the delays, goaded by the two governors. Why is it that commuters from these areas see nothing wrong with sitting in the same traffic jam in the same spot with the same construction for years, but when it's rail, and for a needed reason, it's unacceptable?


Edited by Mystic River Dragon, 26 May 2017 - 01:54 PM.


#57 Thirdrail7

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 10:01 PM

I have to say I am very impressed with how Amtrak is approaching this work. Clearly there's a new sheriff in town, and this guy is no-nonsnense. It's basically: here's what we have to do, here's how we have to do it, and all of us, including Amtrak, will share the pain.  There is no way of knowing for sure, but I kind of think that former management would not have taken this straight forward, honest approach.

 

Maybe it's because he's a civil engineer?  ;)

 

I share your thoughts. I don't think the previous regime would have handled it this way but there is a reason for that. Mr. Moorman can make these sort of decisions and not really worry about burning any future bridges or dealing with political payback since he has made it perfectly clear he does not intend to stay around long.

 

Therefore, he doesn't really need to kowtow to anyone. He can plunge ahead which is the way it should've been all along. It is refreshing to see an operations person at the helm. I've met him briefly and no nonsense is an understatement. He's a professional but he's not here to mingle, make friends, small talk or brownie points. The last time I felt a presence so cold was when I first met my future in-laws!

 

I think a lot of people (particularly employees that started their careers with Mr. Boardman at the helm) are in for a surprise. ^_^


Edited by Thirdrail7, 26 May 2017 - 10:17 PM.

They say laughter is the best medicine. Obviously they never posted on AU.


#58 Thirdrail7

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 10:16 PM

The Amtrak website is showing sold out for the Crescent to all points north of Washington for most of July and August, so I presume it will be terminating and originating there. It
appears that passengers bound for points north of Washington will have to transfer there to a Northeast Regional or Acela. The Cardinal, Silver Star, and Silver Meteor do not appear to be affected. However, multiple
Regionals also appear to be cancelled. Although it is still possible to book tickets for all trains on the Empire Corridor, Grand Central
Terminal is now appearing as a station option so I assume those adjustments will soon follow.

 

 

If you look hard enough, you'll notice three less Keystones operating between PHL-NYP-PHL and you'll see one should  turn in NWK. I believe they are still waiting for final approval to merge 63 and 69 at NYP and reschedule 69 between ALB-MTR.


They say laughter is the best medicine. Obviously they never posted on AU.


#59 railiner

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 10:52 PM

There is an interesting message on trainroders which talks about testing the viability of running some Amtrak Regionals and Acelas to Hoboken, by test running equipment that way. May be just for the purposes of validating contingencies. But clearly, every option is being looked at.

Interesting....if they run a Washington to Hoboken train, why terminate there?   Perhaps they can possibly run at least one trip from Washington thru to Albany over the River Line? (I know...over CSX's dead body :P )


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#60 railiner

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 11:06 PM

I have to say I am very impressed with how Amtrak is approaching this work. Clearly there's a new sheriff in town, and this guy is no-nonsnense. It's basically: here's what we have to do, here's how we have to do it, and all of us, including Amtrak, will share the pain.  There is no way of knowing for sure, but I kind of think that former management would not have taken this straight forward, honest approach.

 

Maybe it's because he's a civil engineer?  ;)

Shades of the old PRR, of the 19th and early 20th centuries....while most other railroads across the nation were headed by financier's, the PRR rose to its premier status, by having civil engineer's running the company.

When the financier's finally prevailed, that led to the companies eventual demise....


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