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Upcoming Work at New York Penn


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#1 Maverickstation

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 06:00 AM

Plan accordingly if your summer travels take you to, and/or through New York Penn.

 

https://www.boston.c...at-penn-station

 

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#2 jis

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 09:09 AM

The most affected will be commuter trains. Amtrak trains will mostly do relatively fine I think. Empire Service may be significantly impacted during work on the A Ladder since they have to cross it to get to the Empire Connection.

 

There will be significant juggling of NJT schedules, with possibly some trains diverted to Hoboken or short terminated at Newark Penn, is what we are hearing. Effect on LIRR should be less unless major stuff comes down on the east side tunnels and interlockings.



#3 Maverickstation

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 07:23 AM

Another story on this subject, don't think for a second that this will not affect Amtrak in a large way.

 

NJ Transit has options, like diverting trains to Hoboken, or turning them at Newark Penn (where by passengers would transfer to PATH, or i the case of Hoboken, PATH or Ferries),

options that would not work for Amtrak.

 

The fact that Amtrak has to even hint at shutting one of the tunnels shows how dramatic the issues are in the tunnels and the approaches from the west of NYP.

 

http://www.philly.co...uter-chaos.html

 

 

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#4 A Voice

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 08:59 AM

The fact that Amtrak has to even hint at shutting one of the tunnels shows how dramatic the issues are in the tunnels and the approaches from the west of NYP.

 

The eventual tunnel closure does not refer to the work performed this summer.  It has been known for a long time that the damage to the aging tunnels during the Sandy storm event would ultimately mean the tubes would have to be shut down for repairs, but the plan has always been to do this work after the Gateway tunnel is operational.  While it is possible something could be found or occur which would require the tunnels be shuttered before then - particularly if Gateway faces delays (likely funding) - that is not the intention.  

 

While Amtrak will be affected, Jis is correct in that it is the commuter traffic which will take by far the greatest hit.  Penn Station is drowning in commuter trains; This will eventually have to be addressed further than just Gateway and the Farley building station expansion.  



#5 daybeers

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 09:15 AM

While Amtrak will be affected, Jis is correct in that it is the commuter traffic which will take by far the greatest hit.  Penn Station is drowning in commuter trains; This will eventually have to be addressed further than just Gateway and the Farley building station expansion.  


Isn't the seemingly never-ending East Side Access Project going to address the fact that Penn is overcrowded by bringing LIRR to GCT?

Edited by daybeers, 29 April 2017 - 09:16 AM.

Amtrak travel so far:

Springfield Shuttle: HFD-WND, HFD-NHV

Lake Shore Limited: SPG-CHI, CHI-SPG Roomette

Northeast Regional round-trip lots of times: NHV-NYP, NHV-WIL, NHV-WAS, HFD-WAS (some in Business)

Acela: PHL-NHV, Business Class

Pennsylvanian: NYP-PGH, PGH-NYP, Business Class

Capitol Limited: WAS-CHI Bedroom

 

Foreign travel:

Eurostar: London-Paris

EuroNight: Paris-Milano Centrale, 6 person couchette (by far the worst train I have ever been on.)

Frecciarossa: Milano Centrale-Roma Termini

 


#6 jis

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 10:21 AM

Only partly. It will offload the higher track numbers a little, and soon some of the LIRR trains that move out, will be replaced by MNRR trains from the New Haven Line. And it will have no effect on the ever growing numbers coming in from NJ.

#7 dlagrua

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 12:14 PM

Funny how short sighted government can be. Yes the track work needs to be done but I find it odd that its going to take place in the busy summer months.  JIS s certainly correct that commuter trains flood Penn station.  It is grossly overloaded.  Over 600,000 passengers per day use Penn station. . NYC could sure could use the extra space that the original station had but until the Penn station expansion is done, the misery will continue.  



#8 AmtrakBlue

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 12:35 PM

Funny how short sighted government can be. Yes the track work needs to be done but I find it odd that its going to take place in the busy summer months.  JIS s certainly correct that commuter trains flood Penn station.  It is grossly overloaded.  Over 600,000 passengers per day use Penn station. . NYC could sure could use the extra space that the original station had but until the Penn station expansion is done, the misery will continue.  

Hmm, might 2 derailments in a month justify doing it now rather than later?

2011: Jun: WIL=>WAS=>WIL (NER) // Nov: WIL=>WAS=>CHI=>PRO (NER=>CL=>CZ)
2012: Apr: WIL=>WAS=>WIL (NER) // May(NTD): WIL=>PHL=>WIL (NER) / PHL=>PAO=>PHL (Keystone) // Aug: WIL=>WAS (NER) / BWI=>WIL (NER) // Oct(Gathering): PHL=>WIL (NER) / PHL=>HAR=>PHL (Keystone) / SEPTA, NJT, PATCO, River Line, Princeton Dinky
2013: May(NTD): WIL=>WAS=>WIL (NER)  // Oct (Gathering): WIL=>CHI (Card) / CHI=>MKE=>GLN=>CHI() / CHI=>JOL=>CHI () / CHI=>WIL(CL=>NER) / CTA, Metra. SEPTA (WIL=>NRK) // Nov:  PHL=>PHL (Autumn Express) 
2014: May(NTD):  WIL=>PHL=>WIL(NER) // May:  WIL=>BOS=>WIL(NER) day trip

2014: Oct(Gathering): WIL=>NYP=>TOL(pd-NER=>LSL) / TOL=>CHI=>LAX=>EMY(pts-LSL=>SWC=>CS) / EMY=>CHI=>TOL (pts-CZ-CL) / TOL=>WAS=>WIL(pd-CL=>NER)
2015: May: CHI=>CIN(pd-Card) / CIN=>WIL(pts Card)
2015;  Oct(Gathering):  WIL=>WAS(Acela) / ALX=>WAS(NER) / WAS=>BAL(Acela) / WAS=>WIL(NER)

2016: Mar: WIL=>WAS=>WIL (NER)  // Oct:  WIL=>NYP=>NYP=>WIL (Autumn Express) 


#9 Maverickstation

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 02:13 PM

 

The fact that Amtrak has to even hint at shutting one of the tunnels shows how dramatic the issues are in the tunnels and the approaches from the west of NYP.

 

The eventual tunnel closure does not refer to the work performed this summer.  It has been known for a long time that the damage to the aging tunnels during the Sandy storm event would ultimately mean the tubes would have to be shut down for repairs, but the plan has always been to do this work after the Gateway tunnel is operational.  While it is possible something could be found or occur which would require the tunnels be shuttered before then - particularly if Gateway faces delays (likely funding) - that is not the intention.  

 

While Amtrak will be affected, Jis is correct in that it is the commuter traffic which will take by far the greatest hit.  Penn Station is drowning in commuter trains; This will eventually have to be addressed further than just Gateway and the Farley building station expansion.  

 

 

Actually you never know when an emergency tunnel closure could occur, since the "issues" of the past few weeks, Amtrak's inspectors have found more defects in the tunnels.

This was brought to light this past week when the CBS Evening News ran a story where of their reporters was taken on a rare tour of the tunnels and issues like antiquated wiring,

water intrusion, general aging, and the like were pointed out.

 

Granted when it was planned NYP was not designed to handle commuter trains coming from the west, and that changed over the decades with the final PRR commuter train departing Jersey City-Exchange Place in 1961.

 

NJT has to be charged with maximizing Hoboken for the foreseable future, like it. or not.

 

The NEC is Amtrak's bread and butter, but it can't that with a sever point between NY Penn and Newark Penn.

 

This is no doubt the most serious issue that Amtrak is facing.

 

Ken


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Location: Boston MA, the greatest city in America, and home of South Station, Amtrak's best large city station.

 


#10 Bex

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 03:35 PM

Funny how short sighted government can be. Yes the track work needs to be done but I find it odd that its going to take place in the busy summer months.  JIS s certainly correct that commuter trains flood Penn station.  It is grossly overloaded.  Over 600,000 passengers per day use Penn station. . NYC could sure could use the extra space that the original station had but until the Penn station expansion is done, the misery will continue.  

 

Just curious, because I could not find figures, but anecdotally, it seems commuter ridership in Manhattan goes down in the summer as people take vacations, have summer Fridays, etc. So while it's Amtrak's high season, maybe not so much for LIRR/NJT?



#11 Maverickstation

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 04:35 PM

Funny how short sighted government can be. Yes the track work needs to be done but I find it odd that its going to take place in the busy summer months.  JIS s certainly correct that commuter trains flood Penn station.  It is grossly overloaded.  Over 600,000 passengers per day use Penn station. . NYC could sure could use the extra space that the original station had but until the Penn station expansion is done, the misery will continue.  


 
Just curious, because I could not find figures, but anecdotally, it seems commuter ridership in Manhattan goes down in the summer as people take vacations, have summer Fridays, etc. So while it's Amtrak's high season, maybe not so much for LIRR/NJT?


For the LIRR summer ridership soars on their east end routes, as well as the Babylon and Long Beach branches, overtaking any vacation loss on their system, and hyper New Yorkers don't take much vacation to start with.

NJT also sees an uptick on their Bay Head route

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#12 railiner

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 06:35 PM

I had thought that the East Side Access could divert as many as half of LIRR trains from NYP to NYG, if necessary....by the way, what is the latest estimate for its opening?

 

And why would New Haven MNCR trains be diverted to NYP?  If people wanted to go to NYP, they can already ride Amtrak trains that do that, albeit, for a higher fare.....if that is planned, what about sending some MN Hudson Line trains to NYP?  Why not one, and not the other?

 

If that happens, Amtrak should be able to reciprocate and run a couple of Boston or Albany trains to NYG, for the convenience of those wanting that part of town...


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#13 Train2104

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 08:20 PM

 

Funny how short sighted government can be. Yes the track work needs to be done but I find it odd that its going to take place in the busy summer months.  JIS s certainly correct that commuter trains flood Penn station.  It is grossly overloaded.  Over 600,000 passengers per day use Penn station. . NYC could sure could use the extra space that the original station had but until the Penn station expansion is done, the misery will continue.  

 

Just curious, because I could not find figures, but anecdotally, it seems commuter ridership in Manhattan goes down in the summer as people take vacations, have summer Fridays, etc. So while it's Amtrak's high season, maybe not so much for LIRR/NJT?

 

 

For most transit, including NYC area transit it does go down, and on Fridays quite a bit,especially in the mornings. But the thousands that fill Penn for the Montauk and Long Beach service on Friday afternoons and weekends more than makes up for the loss (and I'm not exaggerating, the Cannonball alone carries well over 1,500 passengers most Fridays). Summer is the LIRR's busiest time of year overall.


Edited by Train2104, 29 April 2017 - 08:22 PM.


#14 jis

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 08:22 PM

It was Amtrak's decision to move out of GCT to reduce cost. Nothing has changed to cause a different decision now.

It is MTA's plan to run some New Haven Line trains to Penn Station using slots that belong to MTA via LIRR, so go and ask them why. I think it also has to do with opening several stations on the NY Connecting Railroad (Hell Gate Line) to increase commuter access. No one in their right mind should claim that Amtrak service and fares is the same as commuter rail service and fares anywhere on the NEC

#15 railiner

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 09:25 PM

No one did claim that the service and fares are the same....I did say that service via Amtrak on the New Haven line to NYP was available, albeit at a higher fare....

 

*

 

Interesting about stops on the NY Connecting RR line....would be nice to have a stop at either Northern Blvd., or Ditmars Blvd. in Astoria, not too far from LaGuardia Airport to serve Queens passenger's...


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#16 WoodyinNYC

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 10:55 PM

Interesting about stops on the NY Connecting RR line....would be nice to have a stop ... in Astoria, not too far from LaGuardia Airport to serve Queens passengers...

I've only read about 4 stations in the Bronx, in parts of the boro poorly served by subways, especially Coop City.



#17 Maverickstation

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 06:34 AM

Meanwhile a group of NJT riders are planning on using their April passes through May.

 

http://newjersey.new...lays-1.13540624

 

Ken  


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#18 dlagrua

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 07:52 AM

 

Funny how short sighted government can be. Yes the track work needs to be done but I find it odd that its going to take place in the busy summer months.  JIS s certainly correct that commuter trains flood Penn station.  It is grossly overloaded.  Over 600,000 passengers per day use Penn station. . NYC could sure could use the extra space that the original station had but until the Penn station expansion is done, the misery will continue.  

Hmm, might 2 derailments in a month justify doing it now rather than later?

 

That makes sense and I can certainly believe that is one of the driving factors.. Those derailments also caused NJT to withhold rent for the use of Penn station so that also forces the issue. . We just hope that the effect on LD and NEC trains is not catastrophic.

Just for reference my son came out to visit us today and decided to take NJT from NYP to Raritan. It turned out to be a 2 1/2 hour trip on a day when passenger traffic is very light. I can only guess that track /switch work may have already begun. Have to check Amtrak NEC schedule to see if that has been affected as well.


Edited by dlagrua, 30 April 2017 - 03:13 PM.


#19 jis

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 08:17 AM

About NJT rent, that is Christie grandstanding. This year's check has been paid and cashed, as I understand it. It is the payment for 2018 that we are bloviating about. The effects of any real withholding will unfold after Christie is gone, so it is an easy one for him to huff and puff about, for effect.

Edited by jis, 30 April 2017 - 08:38 AM.


#20 Maverickstation

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 05:50 AM

Here is a very strong editorial from Newsday, putting the blame on Amtrak's leadership (or lack there of).

The issues that they raise about the various security details that patrol the station are spot on.

 

http://www.newsday.c...rack-1.13539480

 

Ken  


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Location: Boston MA, the greatest city in America, and home of South Station, Amtrak's best large city station.

 





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