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One more reason to take the train


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#21 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 10:01 AM

The United CEO has kept digging himself into the PR hole by defending his staff's actions. That's the curious part of this debacle, keeping it going.

&

United Loses $800 Million in Value After Passenger Dragged Off Plane


United's market cap has slid from 22.5 to 21.70 billion. This dispute is only a minor blemish to them so far.  Despite the backlash United is simply following the same blame-the-victim PR scrip as our current executive branch, so no surprises there. If UA have any fear at all it will be limited to antagonizing international customers and foreign institutional investors. On the other hand they may actually end up attracting more Russian and Filipino passengers as a result of this heavy handed hyper authoritarian video.

 

Never would have happened if 1)passengers were bumped at the gate instead of the plane or 2)ticket agent raised compensation to what someone was willing to take.

 
Agreed 100%, but from United's perspective why put effort into deescalation when you can simply call in security to mop up after your lousy customer service makes a complete mess of everything?


Edited by Devil's Advocate, 11 April 2017 - 11:03 AM.

We've got provisions and lots of beer. The key word is survival on the new frontier. 


#22 A Voice

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 10:29 AM

Never would have happened if 1)passengers were bumped at the gate instead of the plane or 2)ticket agent raised compensation to what someone was willing to take.

 

Which is a critical point (for the sake of argument, has it been reported what volunteers were offered, and declined?).  For sufficiently generous compensation, somebody is ultimately going to take the offer.  A complimentary hotel or meals have a real cost, but things like (discount) travel vouchers and even free flights potentially cost the airline almost nothing (giving away seats which are likely to otherwise remain unsold).  

 

 

 
Agreed 100%, but from United's perspective why put effort into deescalation when you can simply call in security to mop up after your lousy customer service makes a complete mess of everything?

 

 

One would have hoped deescalation would be the easier and more expedient option, but obviously not. You really have to wonder what some people were thinking (or lack thereof).  



#23 KmH

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 10:44 AM

I had missed that post #8 covered the "Trump cut Amtraks funding" comment.

Edited by KmH, 11 April 2017 - 10:48 AM.

1963U. S. Congress - underground trolley system • Disneyland train (1968/various other dates) • Old Tucson steam train (1969)

Amtrak: California Zephyr Coast Starlight •  Southwest ChiefSunset LimitedTexas Eagle • Illinois Zephyr

. . . . . . . Amtrak miles - 16,383, so far.

 

 

 

 

 


#24 dlagrua

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 11:03 AM

Forcibly removing a passenger who had a paid ticket and who did nothing wrong is a terrible violation of a persons civil rights. The airline overbooks to increase their profit and when the plane overfills, it becomes the paying customers fault. The cops that bloodied this man should go back, read the oath that they swore to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic. In this case the airline is the enemy not the innocent law abiding passenger.  Law enforcement must always honor their oath and not become brownshirt robots for the elite. Police are there to protect our rights not violate them. I hope that the injured passenger sues United Airlines (who is not even apologetic) and that the bad cop loses his job. 



#25 fairviewroad

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 11:09 AM

I'm surprised I'm the first one to point out a major problem with the premise of this thread:  "One more reason to take the train."

 

The flight in question was from Chicago to Louisville. There is no train service to Louisville. Amtrak will sell you a train ticket to Indianapolis, arriving at midnight, followed by a 5:50 a.m. Thruway bus connection in the morning.

 

It's so incredibly hard to imagine why people would think that flying would be a better choice to get from Chicago to Louisville. :huh:



#26 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 11:25 AM

The cops that bloodied this man should go back, read the oath that they swore to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic.


They're just following the status quo at this point.  Can't expect our security services to act any more responsibly or compassionately than the people above them.  That kind of calm and rational leadership has to come from the top.  Oh, right.


Edited by Devil's Advocate, 11 April 2017 - 12:24 PM.

We've got provisions and lots of beer. The key word is survival on the new frontier. 


#27 seat38a

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 02:52 PM

Well the doctor has a past history it seems.

http://www.courier-j...past/100318320/



#28 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 03:24 PM

Well the doctor has a past history it seems.
http://www.courier-j...past/100318320/

 

I guess two wrongs really do make a right.   <_<

 

Nonetheless, from the linked story...

 

 

United CEO Oscar Munoz apologized for the incident Monday, but hours later he sent a letter to the airline's employees hours later lauding the behavior of the flight crew when Dao, whom he described as "disruptive and belligerent," was removed. He credited employees with following established procedures.

 

Regardless of whatever disingenuous pandering nonsense they may say in the future, I think that comes pretty close to settling United's true position on this matter.  So far as the top brass are concerned official procedures were followed, the customer is unilaterally in the wrong for refusing to give up his paid (and even acquired) seat in line with the severe power imbalance created by UA's lopsided contract of carriage.  According to UA's head honcho there was nothing else that could be done but to call in security to aggressively and violently mop up their self-inflicted mess after apathy and indifference failed to get the job done.


Edited by Devil's Advocate, 11 April 2017 - 03:53 PM.

We've got provisions and lots of beer. The key word is survival on the new frontier. 


#29 Chey

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 04:02 PM

Well the doctor has a past history it seems.
http://www.courier-j...past/100318320/


A lot of people have a past. What's that got to do with what happened? Did they access his criminal history before they ejected him? Are our pasts now subject to airline employee scrutiny?

#30 MikefromCrete

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 04:12 PM

Oscar Munoz, United's CEO, is a former high honcho at CSX. Lousily run railroad, lousily run airline. 



#31 seat38a

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 04:50 PM

 


A lot of people have a past. What's that got to do with what happened? Did they access his criminal history before they ejected him? Are our pasts now subject to airline employee scrutiny?

 

Nope, but the world is up in arms about the "Poor Sweet Doctor" who got a beatdown for not listening to the cops. That poor sweet doctor is a convicted felon and contributing to the drug addiction problem of Appalachia taking money and sex as payment. My point? EVERYONE is jumping to conclusions. Do we even know what the doctor said to the cops??? No one seems to have caught that on camera. People are ready to lynch the cops and the airline based on NON fully investigated incident and in China according to news, their social media is up in a roar because a Chinese Man(He is Vietnamese) got a beatdown.



#32 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 05:38 PM

 

 


A lot of people have a past. What's that got to do with what happened? Did they access his criminal history before they ejected him? Are our pasts now subject to airline employee scrutiny?

 

Nope, but the world is up in arms about the "Poor Sweet Doctor" who got a beatdown for not listening to the cops. That poor sweet doctor is a convicted felon and contributing to the drug addiction problem of Appalachia taking money and sex as payment. My point? EVERYONE is jumping to conclusions. Do we even know what the doctor said to the cops??? No one seems to have caught that on camera. People are ready to lynch the cops and the airline based on NON fully investigated incident and in China according to news, their social media is up in a roar because a Chinese Man(He is Vietnamese) got a beatdown.

 

Poor sweet doctor?  

 

More like an (understandably) irate paying passenger who was apparently sick and tired of being jerked around by United's lousy customer service and incomprehensible excuses.  I've been there myself many times before.  I've never been physically forced out of my seat, but I have been tricked out of it by an unscrupulous flight attendant who tried to make it look like they were helping me only to discover that it was a setup.  I think many former and current customers would readily accept that over the last several years United has become a discombobulated mess of an airline that is managed and staffed by people who would struggle to comprehend empathy, let alone actually experience it.  

 

If this passenger has done something wrong or illegal unrelated to the flight then by all means punish him in a manner appropriate and relevant for the crime or infraction committed, but don't pretend that some unrelated backstory should give an overzealous airline carte blanche to treat their customers however they please.  At the end of the day the public has been rudely reminded that United views and treats their passengers like freight.  Regardless of whatever this man may have done in the past, seeing a company as despised as United proudly admit that it expects and withholds the right to treat paying customers like illegitimate stowaways is a bad look for this clusterfork of an airline.


Edited by Devil's Advocate, 11 April 2017 - 07:27 PM.

We've got provisions and lots of beer. The key word is survival on the new frontier. 


#33 ehbowen

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 05:44 PM

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#34 ehbowen

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 05:46 PM

At the end of the day the public has been rudely reminded that United views and treats passengers like freight.

 
I disagree; United has to pay for damaged freight....


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#35 dlagrua

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 07:22 PM

 

 


A lot of people have a past. What's that got to do with what happened? Did they access his criminal history before they ejected him? Are our pasts now subject to airline employee scrutiny?

 

Nope, but the world is up in arms about the "Poor Sweet Doctor" who got a beatdown for not listening to the cops. That poor sweet doctor is a convicted felon and contributing to the drug addiction problem of Appalachia taking money and sex as payment. My point? EVERYONE is jumping to conclusions. Do we even know what the doctor said to the cops??? No one seems to have caught that on camera. People are ready to lynch the cops and the airline based on NON fully investigated incident and in China according to news, their social media is up in a roar because a Chinese Man(He is Vietnamese) got a beatdown.

 

I don't buy that ethnicity or character has any bearing on this incident. People of every ethnicity are entitled to the same constitutional and civil rights as all the rest of us. If he wasn't a nice guy so what? As long as he behaves while aboard the plane, this is  irrelevant. 



#36 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 07:30 PM

 

At the end of the day the public has been rudely reminded that United views and treats passengers like freight.

 
I disagree; United has to pay for damaged freight....

 

 

You'd think so, but au contraire...

 


We've got provisions and lots of beer. The key word is survival on the new frontier. 


#37 Bob Dylan

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 07:39 PM

Thuggery by any other name is just that!

Dragging a bleeding,paying passenger off a plane so a deadhead crew can fly is obscene and plain stupidity.

Hopefully this man has a crackerjack lawyer and will enjoy his new life as a wealthy airline owner! 🤔😉

All the apologists for United can just "Tell it to the Marines!"

Edited by Bob Dylan, 11 April 2017 - 07:41 PM.

"There's Something About a Train! It's Magic!"-- 1970s Amtrak Ad
 "..My heart is warm with the friends I make,and better friends I'll not be knowing,
Yet there isn't a train I wouldn't take,No matter where its going!.." -Edna St. Vincent Millay

#38 anumberone

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 01:29 AM

If I'm sitting on that plane I'm pissed the guy won't get off like the other three did, that overbooking causing someone to get off happens a lot more often than you think. Anytime you buy a ticket you may overlook it, but you are advised the plane may be over booked.


If I'm sitting on that plane I'm pissed the guy won't get off like the other three did, that overbooking causing someone to get off happens a lot more often than you think. Anytime you buy a ticket you may overlook it, but you are advised the plane may be over booked.
I don't know the reason why they needed room for this particular situation, I do know that a pilot can end a flight in Chicago and have to fly to a different city for the next flight.

Edited by anumberone, 12 April 2017 - 01:40 AM.


#39 west point

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 03:28 AM

Speculation but ---------- Republic boarded airplane at ORD. Then got a call from either Republic or United to hold airplane for 4 must ride crew members. Even had to delay flight to wait for D/H crew. Instead of getting volunteers ( Paid ) to give up seats took long time to process that request. Finally had to remove passengers (4) with the one refusing. They should have upped the ante. Why doctor got back on unknown but suspect 1 or more passengers thought what the heck or were going to miss appointment.
This is going to result in costing United many mega bucks in the future as many future passengers will think they can hold out for higher denied boarding compensation. More force able removals ? Who knows ?

Edited by west point, 12 April 2017 - 03:31 AM.


#40 MikefromCrete

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:11 AM

 

If I'm sitting on that plane I'm pissed the guy won't get off like the other three did, that overbooking causing someone to get off happens a lot more often than you think. Anytime you buy a ticket you may overlook it, but you are advised the plane may be over booked.


If I'm sitting on that plane I'm pissed the guy won't get off like the other three did, that overbooking causing someone to get off happens a lot more often than you think. Anytime you buy a ticket you may overlook it, but you are advised the plane may be over booked.
I don't know the reason why they needed room for this particular situation, I do know that a pilot can end a flight in Chicago and have to fly to a different city for the next flight.

 

 

Turns out the flight wasn't overbooked. Deadhead crew apparently showed up at last minute after the plane had been loaded. This whole thing was terribly mishandled. From the last minute crew boarding to a supervisor who handled the announcement very badly to calling in the airport security police who totally over reacted. Interesting, the airport security police, who are not part of the Chicago police department, have been arguing to be armed. That whole proposal, which had some city council support, has blown up in their face. It seems like suspensions are in order for whoever ordered the deadhead crew to board an already full plane and the supervisor who handled the whole situation. Whoever wrote the first p.r. statement and then Munuoz's "our employees did nothing wrong" statement also need some time off. Munoz's head may have to roll, too, but since he's a CEO he'll get a very golden parachute. The whole thing is an object lesson for how not to deal with the public. 






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