why does Superliner sway so badly?

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Mar 24, 2017
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this is obviously a newbie question. I have traveled by rail extensively in Europe and Japan over the last 25 years. (as well as Amtrak's Acela between NY and BOS, which I use on a bi-weekly basis)

tonight was the very first time I've been on Amtrak's Superliner. in the upstairs room, the car was swaying so badly. according to the GPS app on my phone, the train was only going 53 to 58mph on a very straight track.

I used the public shower and could barely stand up.... :( If I wasn't a sailor at heart, I would probably have gotten sea sick. :D
 
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Track conditions can have an effect, as well as the fact that you are about 12 feet up...
 
Train swaying, SCA not available to makeup beds, can't wait to hear about the rest of the trip.


I can report that the dinner in the dining car was delicious. (way better than what I had expected, at least judging by all the reports that I read in this forum, prior to starting my trip) The fish dish and the beef dish were both tasty. We had the last dinner seating and had the table to ourselves, so no need to make small talk with total strangers. :D Having said that, I would never have paid the $20+ for the fish entree.
 
Which train? Sounds like you might be on the SWC (Southwest Chief #3 or #4) going trough Kansas. :eek:
 
Did you notice the swaying the entire trip? If not, it was probably rough track conditions..

Did you notice the swaying in other cars on the train? If not, it could be a defective, or worn out component in your cars suspension....
 
this is obviously a newbie question. I have traveled by rail extensively in Europe and Japan over the last 25 years. (as well as Amtrak's Acela between NY and BOS, which I use on a bi-weekly basis)

tonight was the very first time I've been on Amtrak's Superliner. in the upstairs room, the car was swaying so badly. according to the GPS app on my phone, the train was only going 53 to 58mph on a very straight track.

I used the public shower and could barely stand up.... :( If I wasn't a sailor at heart, I would probably have gotten sea sick. :D
The causes of excessive sway were pointed out in this thread. Going over them again; height of Superliner equipment, possible worn equipment, bad track conditions. Most of us accept that sway on a moving train is normal. We often have to hold on in the shower too. We've been on the Acela where sway was less but in spots you had to hold on while going down the aisles. Don't know how things are in Europe but their trains are not always moving on tracks owned by railroad freight companies.
 
I have also found that certain routes in the winter are rougher than summer. Guess I have traveled so much on Amtrak that I don't notice it any more, except the real rough spots. I remember on the CL leaving Chicago on a very cold winter day having dinner when the sway was jolts left and right, so hard it tossed a server on to table and knocked two people out of their end seats onto the floor. The conductor reassured everyone that everything was safe it was just the roadbed in the severe cold.
 
To a large extent European tracks are maintained for passenger trains, American tracks are maintained for freight trains. Smooth ride isn't the first priority for freight tracks.
 
Years ago the Sunset Limited had a really rough section in Texas, even the SCA's were holding onto chair backs when they were walking down the aisle. Not sure if it is still that rough.

I have ridden both Viewliners and Superliners and most of the time they are very steady, but when a Superliner hits rough track it can sway pretty noticeably.
 
I've a hunch that many of the side-to-side swaying motions are a result of either crossovers between parallel tracks or sun kinks:

SunKinka.jpg

And I suppose strong and gusty cross-winds could also rock a Superliner car.
 
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To a large extent European tracks are maintained for passenger trains, American tracks are maintained for freight trains. Smooth ride isn't the first priority for freight tracks.
Plus, the Superliners are much taller than a lot of European equipment and have a higher center of gravity. For instance, they're 25% taller than the ICE 3s and none of the European loading gauges could accept a Superliner.
 
Back in Amtrak's early days, "sway" was worse on some of the Heritage cars and on some trackage that wasn't really up to standards.

I used to hang with some Amtrak staff after hours, and a constant joke was: "You know how you can tell who's drunk on a train? They're the ones who can walk a straight line down the aisle. It's the sober ones who keep falling..."
 
Guess I have traveled so much on Amtrak that I don't notice it any more...
Compared to Asian and European trains on well maintained passenger focused rails Amtrak trains feel like they're swaying and jerking to extreme levels. Not just the Superliners but even the Talgos and Acelas as well. Supposedly the Talgos are the same as in Europe but they sound and feel terrible every time they cross a switch in the PNW. Not sure what the specific difference is but presumably it's down to the track design/maintenance.

Years ago the Sunset Limited had a really rough section in Texas, even the SCA's were holding onto chair backs when they were walking down the aisle. Not sure if it is still that rough. I have ridden both Viewliners and Superliners and most of the time they are very steady, but when a Superliner hits rough track it can sway pretty noticeably.
Texas is a pretty big place and the SL travels through about 900 miles of it, so that doesn't really narrow it down at all.
 
Guess I have traveled so much on Amtrak that I don't notice it any more...
Compared to Asian and European trains on well maintained passenger focused rails Amtrak trains feel like they're swaying and jerking to extreme levels. Not just the Superliners but even the Talgos and Acelas as well. Supposedly the Talgos are the same as in Europe but they sound and feel terrible every time they cross a switch in the PNW. Not sure what the specific difference is but presumably it's down to the track design/maintenance.

Years ago the Sunset Limited had a really rough section in Texas, even the SCA's were holding onto chair backs when they were walking down the aisle. Not sure if it is still that rough. I have ridden both Viewliners and Superliners and most of the time they are very steady, but when a Superliner hits rough track it can sway pretty noticeably.
Texas is a pretty big place and the SL travels through about 900 miles of it, so that doesn't really narrow it down at all.
As an employee, the roughness of the ride of an Acela is understated unfortunately. Give me a Regional assignment any day. I'm sure the equipment just getting beat up doesn't help, so I hope the Acela II's are better tended to, and continue to provide a decent ride well in to their life.
 
Which train? Sounds like you might be on the SWC (Southwest Chief #3 or #4) going trough Kansas. :eek:
Our ride on the SWC last Sept was the roughest ride on any train I have ever had. We were in the family room downstairs not sure if that was better or not. Any work being done on these tracks before my AUG 2017 trip???
 
I will be riding Amtrak for the 1st time next month. Taking the SWC to LA. I am on the bottom level Room 11. Hope there is not too much sway as I am prone to motion sickness. Rough bumpy I can handle--sway not so much.
 
Which train? Sounds like you might be on the SWC (Southwest Chief #3 or #4) going trough Kansas. :eek:
Our ride on the SWC last Sept was the roughest ride on any train I have ever had.
You can add me to the list of people who have found the SWC to have the worst ride quality I've ever experienced in any train on any route in any country. The Kansas portion should probably be rescheduled at something closer to yard speed. There used to be an insider on this forum who swore up and down that even an extremely rough ride had zero connection to passenger safety, but to my layman's eyes and ears (and bruises) the SWC experience is both extremely uncomfortable and seriously disconcerting. Not just in the sense that the train felt like it might derail, but also in the sense that if you're in the upper bed of the upper level you could easily get knocked out and hurt yourself on the way down to the floor below. It might not bother me quite as much if it was happening during the daytime but at night it makes sleeping almost impossible for me.
 
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I will be riding Amtrak for the 1st time next month. Taking the SWC to LA. I am on the bottom level Room 11. Hope there is not too much sway as I am prone to motion sickness. Rough bumpy I can handle--sway not so much.
I doubt that you will experience much sway in lower roomette 11 -- unless your train attempts to take a 40 mph crossover at 78 mph, as happened on a California Corridor Amtrak train near Davis last month.
 
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Should have state bounce instead of hop. If you sit near the ends of the car and look through the vestibule at the car in front of you, yes, it does look like the the Superliner "hops". The first production batch Superliners with the Euro designed (with air bladder or something like that) trucks would really bounce. The 2nd batch had a different trucks that used springs which really damped the up and down motions.

If one has seen where a Superliner Car connects to its truck, one can see why its CG is low. The heavy stuff, AC units and water tanks are pretty low too. I forgot where I read it, but an enigineer stated the Superliner has a lower center of gravity than Amfleet.
 
IIRC, the Amfleet fresh water tanks are overhead...they use only gravity to reach the taps in the restrooms. The wastewater tanks are below.

In the Superliner's, all tanks are located at one end, in the space over the trucks... they use pumps to supply the taps.
 
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