St. Paul Union Station (SPUD)

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

VentureForth

Engineer
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
6,430
Location
West Melbourne, FL
Well, it's hard to believe that SPUD has been Amtrak's home for almost 4 years now. For those of you who are there, how has it been? Have any of the light rail lines connected yet? Station still upkept well? (I ask because there is often money to build, but not to maintain)

In my humble opinion, this has been one of the VERY few major success stories in the past decade.

What others are there?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I've been there a couple times... Took the empire builder last summer to ride the 261 steam excursion.

Station is lovely but... Empty. the restaurant that was there before had closed.

Light rail runs right outside the station and connects to Minneapolis and then on to the airport / mall of America via a connecting light rail.

261 runs short Christmas trains from the station each year... That's pretty cool too and brings locals and families in to see the station.
 
Station is lovely but... Empty.
Although it's been a few years since I've been inside, I agree. Except I though it was somewhat "spooky" with only 3 other people in that cavernous space.
Still another time and place to recall this fundamental truth: The cure for what ails Amtrak is more Amtrak.

The 2nd frequency CHI-St Paul-Minneapolis-St Cloud on the Builder's route, again under study, would help a lot to fill the empty. Hard for an eatery or other retailer to run with only one or two 'rush hours' a day.

Really, a 3rd and 4th, and then a 5th and 6th daily train CHI-St Paul would about fix things. Especially if most of those extended beyond the Twin Cities. For example, first to/from Duluth. Then a train to Fargo, next extending to Grand Forks, and ultimately to Winnipeg.

One day the Sacajawea, as I prefer to call the restored North Coast Hiawatha, would run CHI-Twin Cities-Fargo-Bismark-most of the small cities in Montana-Spokane-Pasco-Yakima-Stampede Pass-Seattle.

Not to forget a train heading W, SW, and S running CHI-Twin Cities-Sioux Falls-Omaha-Kansas City-CHI.

A fully built-out Amtrak/Minnesota system will need St Paul Union Station, and will fill it up.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
What schedule is proposed for the 2nd MSP train? It would probably make sense to have a reverse EB schedule departing CHI at 8 AM and MSP at 2 PM. It would be nice to eventually have at least bi-hourly departures from both endpoints from around 6 AM to 4 PM as well as an overnight train. It would also be great if there was thru-service to Duluth or Winnipeg.
 
Hard for an eatery or other retailer to run with only one or two 'rush hours' a day.
The eatery did fairly well until the remodel, and that was with zero trains. I don't know why it closed up shop, but it could have been due to higher rents. (The restaurant, Christos, has two other locations in the the Twin Cities.)

While the station might appear to be empty, there are upscale condos on an upper level, and I believe they have all sold.

I'm a bit bemused by this thread's title. SPUD is hardly the acronym for St Paul Union Station. (Yes, I know the final letter in SPUD stands for depot.)
 
It does feel a bit barren, and a bit unsettling when you arrive at 11pm. Absolutely beautiful, but maybe they need some Muzak or something. Was there in January and it was a lot nicer than when I was there last year and half the hall was piped-and-draped off for a private event.

20170112-DSC01803_x800.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A few notes from when I've been there (both as an Amtrak passenger and as a local transit passenger, along with a couple "just because" times):

It seems to still be well kept up. I haven't noticed anything in disarray or in any particular state of dirtiness or disrepair. It's also a lot less barren when activities are going on in the station. I've been there for some Christmas shopping days and that sort of thing, and on those particular days it's hopping. It does get a bit eerie some days, though, when there's nobody really waiting for Megabus, Amtrak, Greyhound, or Jefferson Lines (or just a few passengers.)

There's a new restaurant available on the northwest side of the entry area (from the light rail.) It seems more suited to a transit/train station anyways, as it has coffee and entrees throughout the day instead of being mainly a Greek place. I think Christo's left as the Ramsey County rail authority wanted a vendor there that had more grab-and-go options and was able to be more versatile, which Christo's couldn't meet. There are plans for a new vendor in there, although I can't recall the ETA on that.

As for the light rail, I think the front entryway like so was because there really wasn't a better place to run the light rail without essentially looping it around on that same street and then running it back into the headhouse. There is a drop-off area on Kellogg Boulevard for taxis and cars, which is conveniently located near the ticket counters and checked baggage area. It would be nice to have the ability for cross-platform connections from light rail to heavy rail, but I don't see it becoming a big deal until such time as there's a fair amount of commuter and regional rail operating from SPUD.

Overall, it really does need more traffic before it gets truly busy and the investment truly pays off. Hopefully in the next couple decades we can really build out our transit networks and turn SPUD back into the hub it should be.
 
The schedule from the study seems like a good starting point. Is there any hint as to when this train could start or is it still just an idea? Also, why did the study say that any train using Target Field station would need a 2nd locomotive or cab car? That is the only location a back up would be required and I think it is short enough that they could simply do a reverse move like the SS at TPA.
 
Still in the study phase (so more like "just an idea" than anywhere near the point of knowing if/when the train would start). And it's anyone's guess at this point as to whether some combination of IL/MN/WI will be willing to commit to funding the capital and operating costs.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The sad part is that the Minneapolis Saint Paul area once had three decent size train stations. One was demolished the other is now a hotel and thank god one was saved and restored. Back in the day these stations were all bristling with activity. There were barber shops, newsstands, coffee shops/restaurants, shoe shine booths, restaurants and everything needed for most any train trip. You could catch a train North, South , East or West.. Today only one train serves St Paul but at least a glorious piece of history was preserved...
 
The schedule from the study seems like a good starting point. Is there any hint as to when this train could start or is it still just an idea? Also, why did the study say that any train using Target Field station would need a 2nd locomotive or cab car? That is the only location a back up would be required and I think it is short enough that they could simply do a reverse move like the SS at TPA.
I'm not sure how long the backup move at TPA is, but the distance would be around 2 miles. I would think that would be a bit too long for a backup move, and I doubt BNSF would want a two-mile backup move on their trackage either.
 
The name of the restaurant really was (and is, in the other two locations) Christos, not Christo's. It does look foreign to American eyes, probably because it is foreign. If it were possessive (it's not), in English it would be Christos', and in Greek it would be Christou.

Who knows, this might be on the test.
 
The TPA backup move is 3 miles long, so this would certainly not be unprecedented. How busy is that area for freight traffic? The backup move would likely add about 5-15 minutes inbound but could pull straight out without reversing. Would that be too much? I am not opposed to the idea of a cab car, but I think the money could be better could be better spent elsewhere if one is not available or a locomotive must be used.
 
Understand that SPUD has a lower passenger count than the old midway station did. Any truth ?
Not sure when the change from the old station to the present one occurred, but here's activity for MSP (boardings + alightings) for a few few fiscal years:

2016 - 96,539

2015 - 92,090

2014 - 94,077

2013 - 116,991

2012 - 120,515

2011 - 116,785

2010 - 128,658

2009 - 133,674

2008 - 147,791

2007 - 133,100

2006 - 137,227

Of course, how can you logically attribute any activity change to the change in stations?
 
That drop in ridership coincides with the big drops for the Empire Builder overall caused by the major disruptions on the line. I don't have the train's ridership numbers in front of me for those years but I'd guess that accounts for a big chunk in MSP's ridership decline.
 
if the reliability of EB improves then the MSP ridership should gradually increase as the public regains confidence which could be a few years. The station is nice, but is there easy access for the EB calling times if going to/from Minneapolis, I think the St Paul location is fine as long as the potential ridership to the west feels they have ease of access in a timely manner.
 
if the reliability of EB improves then the MSP ridership should gradually increase as the public regains confidence which could be a few years. The station is nice, but is there easy access for the EB calling times if going to/from Minneapolis, I think the St Paul location is fine as long as the potential ridership to the west feels they have ease of access in a timely manner.
If you're taking public transit or willing to pay for parking, SPUD is just as good, if not better, than the old Midway station. The light rail runs 24/7 and is running 10-15 minute frequencies by 6-7 AM daily, and most of the major bus routes are also up and running by then, even on Sundays. The major downfall of the new station is that there is no free parking; all parking requires a charge (I think the cheapest is $4-$6/day.) However, I know at least one person who will use the "park/ride/fly" in downtown Minneapolis for $3/day and take the light rail over to SPUD, so that's always an option as well.
 
Understand that SPUD has a lower passenger count than the old midway station did. Any truth ?
Not sure when the change from the old station to the present one occurred, but here's activity for MSP (boardings + alightings) for a few few fiscal years:
2016 - 96,539

2015 - 92,090

2014 - 94,077

2013 - 116,991

2012 - 120,515

2011 - 116,785

2010 - 128,658

2009 - 133,674

2008 - 147,791

2007 - 133,100

2006 - 137,227

Of course, how can you logically attribute any activity change to the change in stations?
I think the new Depot opened in May 2013. By the way, the traffic had already gone down by close to 31,000 people since its heyday in 2008. I think some of it may be the reduction in activity in the North Dakota oil fields, but that's just a wild guess. At least last year was a tick up from the year before, but total reduction by 35%-ish over 10 years sucks no matter how you slice it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back
Top