2017 Winter Park Ski Train

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Great news. I wonder if they'll consider stopping the CZ at the Winter Park platform instead of Fraser (would probably help business...)
 
I believe there are free shuttles from the Fraser station to the ski resort. Plus, amtrak may restrict the number of tickets sold between Denver and Fraser so that long distance passengers are not blocked out.
 
Something's not right with the numbers in the article. The article states each train can hold more than 500 passengers. There are two one-way trips each Saturday and each Sunday. So since it started on January 7th, there have been 6 Saturdays and 6 Sundays it has been operating, for a total of 24 one-way trips. 24 times 500 is 12,000, nowhere near the 15,000 the article states. Even if I calculate 600 passengers per train, the number is still 14,400 total passengers to date if every train was sold out (which it says not every train was). What am I missing here?

***Edit to add: The train also ran on Martin Luther King day, so now we're up to 26 one-way trips, or ridership somewhere between 13,000 and 15,600. So maybe now the 15,000 number is plausible.

Regardless of whether it's 12,000, 15,000, or somewhere in between, it sounds like it's doing very, very well, especially when you consider each passenger paid at least $39 for their seat.
 
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They must be taking the number of tickets sold in the Amtrak Reservation System and how many tickets scanned by the Conductors. Wonder if they took some SRO people since they were at the station wanting tickets. No matter, this run is a success. With so many spending the night Saturday, wonder if a Friday night out of Denver would sell giving many either a two night option or an early Saturday morning start on the slopes.
 
Great news. I wonder if they'll consider stopping the CZ at the Winter Park platform instead of Fraser (would probably help business...)
I've always been to the understanding that the train is too long to stop at the WP platform, as part of it would still be in the tunnel.
 
I've been on a # 5 that stopped at Winter Park when it was in the schedule. No problem stopping there at all.
 
There is nothing gained toward an "an early morning start" by going to Winter Park on Friday. The train on Saturday arrives 15 minutes after the lifts open.
 
... The article states each train can hold more than 500 passengers.

The train also ran on Martin Luther King day, so now we're up to 26 one-way trips, or ridership somewhere between 13,000 and 15,600. ...

Regardless of whether it's 12,000, 15,000, or somewhere in between, it sounds like it's doing very, very well ...
Wonder if these numbers will show up in the Monthly Performance Report? Just added in to the Zephyr, or in some footnote "extra trains" or what?
 
Something's not right ... The article states each train can hold more than 500 passengers.

... since it started on January 7th, there have been 6 Saturdays and 6 Sundays it has been operating, for a total of 24 one-way trips. 24 times 500 is 12,000 ... Even if I calculate 600 passengers per train, the number is still 14,400 total passengers to date ... What am I missing here?

***Edit to add: The train also ran on Martin Luther King day, so now we're up to 26 one-way trips, or ridership somewhere between 13,000 and 15,600.
When the resurrected service via Amtrak was announced in August, each train could carry more than 500 people.

Since then, interest has proved so strong that some weekends are close to selling out, Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliari told the Denver Business Journal.

“We’ve added capacity for the entire period, that’s how strong the sales have been,” he said. ...

Amtrak will add another coach to each train, meaning at least 60 additional seats per train, Magliari said.
That's from a Denver Business Journal article back in December.

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2016/12/15/newwinter-park-ski-train-starting-jan-7th-already.html

Nice photo with that story, showing an Amtrak Superliner dolled up with a banner for the "presenting sponsor". They have other sponsors this year, including the Winter Park Resort. Wonder if they sold sponsorships in the years before the train service was suspended?
 
I too don't understand why the CZ doesn't stop at Winter Park rather than Frazier. On my first trip on the CZ in 1968 it made a stop at the nice Winter Park station and the skiers were just beyond. In those days the train was far longer than Amtrak's version. And there is a siding there where the ski train used to stay and perhaps still does. I'm sure there is a good reason for the CZ using Frazier instead but it would certainly be nice for the skiers who want to go on days when the ski train doesn't run. I believe I heard Winter Park is, or has, built a platform there. Be a nice for a full service station (at least on weekends) was rebuilt. Judging from google maps, the area is still vacant but with some construction equipment around. It was just west of the highway overpass that is just beyond the tunnel entrance.
 
Winter park ski resort in the winter would overwhelm the CAL Z with too many short haul passengers keeping longer haul passengers from traveling. Now a solution would be to announce and only offer trips to WPR say after 1800 night before and after eastbound leaves Grand Junction that day. Maybe some seats before that time but we need to leave that up to Amtrak if they can live with this arrangement ?
 
Frankly, since there is van and shuttle service from Fraser to almost anywhere in the winter Park resort area, anyone that wishes to use the CZ to get to Winter Park resort can already do so with a little additional time spent.
 
If the CZ stopped at Winter Park, Reservations could block the Denver-Winter Park Reservations when the Ski Train is running, thus allowing anyone boarding before Denver to get off in Winter Park. And vice versa on the return. There might be an option to open up Coaches if the Ski Train has sold out. Need to protect Chi- EMY passengers volume from getting blocked out by the skiers.
 
I've been on a # 5 that stopped at Winter Park when it was in the schedule. No problem stopping there at all.

I too don't understand why the CZ doesn't stop at Winter Park rather than Frazier. On my first trip on the CZ in 1968 it made a stop at the nice Winter Park station and the skiers were just beyond. In those days the train was far longer than Amtrak's version. And there is a siding there where the ski train used to stay and perhaps still does. I'm sure there is a good reason for the CZ using Frazier instead but it would certainly be nice for the skiers who want to go on days when the ski train doesn't run. I believe I heard Winter Park is, or has, built a platform there. Be a nice for a full service station (at least on weekends) was rebuilt. Judging from google maps, the area is still vacant but with some construction equipment around. It was just west of the highway overpass that is just beyond the tunnel entrance.
I don't recall the original CZ stopping at Winter Park....IIRC, it didn't even stop at Fraser. The first stop after Denver was Granby. I looked at the 1950 and 1970 schedules to confirm that...

http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track5/calzephyr195008.html

http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track5/calzephyr197002.html

Unless they made a special stop to accommodate some group?

As for the original Ski Train...after dropping the skiers at the resort, it went to Tabernash to wye and layover until the return trip.
 
Going back in D&RGW history, they did have two other trains on the Moffat Tunnel route....the Yampa Valley Mail local to Craig (it also served Steamboat Springs), and the overnight Prospector to SLC, both of which would stop at Winter Park...
 
Wouldn't timekeeping and service disruptions in the heavy snow season be an issue for passengers using the CZ? What would you do with people who went up and no return train available? Or people standing on the platform with skis in hand, waiting for a train that isn't coming for hours?
 
Railiner, your comment caused me to check my old movies and slides. You are absolutlely correct. The movies I have of my CZ trip then showed us slowing at Winter Park but not stopping.. We returned from Bond, CO on the Yampa Valley mail which did stop. As to the ski train, I looked at my photos of another trip there, by car. I spent at least an hour crawling over the great old heavyweight coaches as it set on the Winter Park siding. But it could well have set on another siding prior to moving to the one in Winter Park later in the afternoon. The photos show a very long train that had no trouble fitting in the siding.
 
When I used to ride the Ski Train in the seventies, it had eight former Northern Pacific heavyweight coaches, and one streamliner combo coach-baggage....

In the eighties, The Grande acquired former Canadian National lightweight "Tempo" coaches to replace them, plus some occasional business cars and dome lounges....
 
Frankly, since there is van and shuttle service from Fraser to almost anywhere in the winter Park resort area, anyone that wishes to use the CZ to get to Winter Park resort can already do so with a little substantial additional time spent.
Corrected that for you.

The reason for the CZ stopping at Fraser was the lack of a suitable platform at Winter Park. This has since been corrected, with a 950 ft. platform, which is certainly long enough going eastbound, and probably long enough going westbound. The majority of the Fraser traffic is going to Winter Park, and the small minority going to Fraser can, yes, take the shuttle bus. It would now make more sense to stop at Winter Park.

What's currently preventing this change? If the platform is still considered too short, the platform could be extended another carlength to the west without much difficulty. Fraser doesn't handle checked baggage, so there's no difference in the dwell time or staff requirement between Fraser and Winter Park. Surely Amtrak would prefer to have only one station rather than two. What's the problem?

There are certainly no ticketing-related issues; with the Ski Train in operation the majority of skiers from Denver will take the Ski Train, which is running on a similar schedule. The schedule is in fact sufficiently similar that if necessary local travel from Denver to Winter Park could be prohibited on Ski Train days without ill effect. The CZ would be used by skiers coming from further afield (Salt Lake, Chicago), which is already what the Fraser stop is heavily used for.
 
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Frankly, since there is van and shuttle service from Fraser to almost anywhere in the winter Park resort area, anyone that wishes to use the CZ to get to Winter Park resort can already do so with a little substantial additional time spent.
Corrected that for you.
The reason for the CZ stopping at Fraser was the lack of a suitable platform at Winter Park. This has since been corrected, with a 950 ft. platform, which is certainly long enough going eastbound, and probably long enough going westbound. The majority of the Fraser traffic is going to Winter Park, and the small minority going to Fraser can, yes, take the shuttle bus. It would now make more sense to stop at Winter Park.

What's currently preventing this change? If the platform is still considered too short, the platform could be extended another carlength to the west without much difficulty. Fraser doesn't handle checked baggage, so there's no difference in the dwell time or staff requirement between Fraser and Winter Park. Surely Amtrak would prefer to have only one station rather than two. What's the problem?

There are certainly no ticketing-related issues; with the Ski Train in operation the majority of skiers from Denver will take the Ski Train, which is running on a similar schedule. The schedule is in fact sufficiently similar that if necessary local travel from Denver to Winter Park could be prohibited on Ski Train days without ill effect. The CZ would be used by skiers coming from further afield (Salt Lake, Chicago), which is already what the Fraser stop is heavily used for.
Everything you say, makes a lot of sense...Why not drop the Fraser stop? Perhaps it's just an old grudge against Amtrak carried forward in the railroad's culture from the days William Holtman ran the Rio Grande....who knows?
 
They could also consider stopping only at Winter Park during winter months when the Ski slopes are active, and in Fraser in the summer. This would be similar to the situation between East Glacier and Browning for the Empire Builder. And as I mentioned before, irrespective of where it stops the other is reachable by public transport given some extra time.
 
Not having been there for years can only think of one thing. As I remember the Fraser shuttle made a rather long circle. What are the shuttle routes from Frasier and does The Winter Park resort stop have a convenient stop for passengers to board the shuttle.
 
Last time I was there, one of the stops was close to the new station.

However, there is no denying that it will always be more convenient for the train to stop there rather than having to take a shuttle to the other station.
 
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