engineer with many rule violations

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amtrakmichigan

Lead Service Attendant
Joined
Oct 5, 2003
Messages
444
Location
Plymouth,Mi
im on train 353 in b.c. on the front end w.b. to chicago. i have witnessed the engineer of this train violate a couple different rules. 1) multiple crossings that the horn was not blown, blown very late, or improperly. 2) highway crossing just west of hammond, In station fouled without gates even being a qtr. way down. should i make a complaint (heads up) of this and if so, to who?
 
Are you qualified to operate trains on that route? If no, perhaps you should consider the possibility that the engineer knows more than you, and if yes I would hope you know the proper procedure for reporting violations, so your question seems ill-founded to begin with.
 
I've heard of Backseat Drivers before... if this guy is in the 1st row of the 3rd coach, would that make him a backbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackseat driver? ;)
 
Unless you're a qualified engineer on this route, you don't know if your train's engineer is violating any rules. Have you ever heard of quiet zones? Perhaps those crossings did not require horn activation.
 
im on train 353 in b.c. on the front end w.b. to chicago. i have witnessed the engineer of this train violate a couple different rules. 1) multiple crossings that the horn was not blown, blown very late, or improperly. 2) highway crossing just west of hammond, In station fouled without gates even being a qtr. way down. should i make a complaint (heads up) of this and if so, to who?
You were not in the cab, so you did not "witness" anything.

Since you were not in the cab, you could not possibly see the signs up ahead indicating when it was time to whistle (or not whistle, if in a quiet zone). You also could not see any signals. If you did see those signs/signals as a passenger, they were seconds/moments later, when it's moot.

I'm not sure which "highway" crossing just west of the Hammond station you are talking about. The next road west, in front of the casino, has large, rolling gates on either side of the tracks, which prevent traffic from entering that area. Then the train goes under Casino Center Drive and continues under U.S. 12. The train then travels alongside the Skyway, nowhere near traffic, before it crosses the Calumet River and continues above traffic all the way to Union Station.

Depending on where you boarded, you may not have had the same engineer on the entire route. If memory serves me correctly, you're from Jackson. Battle Creek is a crew change point. If these supposed violations occurred throughout your entire trip, then it was not the same engineer.
 
I'm with the posters (tough crowd!)that basically say that the OP has no way of knowing what is going on in the cab.

I've been on airplanes where passengers criticized the pilots like the OP does the engineer, and most of them didn't have a clue what it's like in the cockpit of a jet!

I'm especially impressed by Sarah's post since she probably has more time on the Michigan trains than the crews!
 
You have a couple of choices. I would write a letter with dates, times, and exact details, using much better English than you are using here, and send it to CEO Wick Moorman at Amtrak HQ. He will forward it to the correct department.
 
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I read on another thread (dealing with the differences between engineers and conductors) how the E's and C's have to be qualified for the route(s) they are operating their trains on. So I would give the engineer in question the benefit of the doubt on this one.
 
You have a couple of choices. I would write a letter with dates, times, and exact details, using much better English than you are using here, and send it to CEO Wick Moorman at Amtrak HQ. He will forward it to the correct department.
Really??? Don't tell this person he or she is right.. This person isn't qualified on anything as far as I'm concerned. And neither are you..

To the OP... Get qualified on the Rule Books and Physical Characteristics that your train was on.. Then offer your two cents. Until then don't be that guy that gets a guy taken out of service cause you're being a Know it all foamer.
 
To the OP:

I'm a fairly new member here, but let me give you some advice.

It would have been better for you to ask questions about certain things that you thought the engineer was doing (or not doing), at least based on your physical perspective. You didn't help your case by automatically accusing the engineer of violating certain rules. Because you don't really know what's going on up in the cab and what signals and communications the engineer is seeing and listening to (as has been articulated by other posters).
 
I'm with the posters (tough crowd!)that basically say that the OP has no way of knowing what is going on in the cab.

I've been on airplanes where passengers criticized the pilots like the OP does the engineer, and most of them didn't have a clue what it's like in the cockpit of a jet!

I'm especially impressed by Sarah's post since she probably has more time on the Michigan trains than the crews!
I once actually had a passenger wait for me at the galley after a flight to tell me that I had failed to set the flaps properly for take-off, and planned to report me to the FAA. I asked him if he was qualified to fly the 757, and he said no, but flew it on his computer. I smiled and walked away... People can be dangerous, when they know just a small amount about something, and yet think they are experts....
 
There is the old saying that a person may "know just enough to be dangerous". There's a lot of truth in that expression, and it applies both to this thread, and to B757Guy's example above.
 
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I once actually had a passenger wait for me at the galley after a flight to tell me that I had failed to set the flaps properly for take-off, and planned to report me to the FAA. I asked him if he was qualified to fly the 757, and he said no, but flew it on his computer. I smiled and walked away... People can be dangerous, when they know just a small amount about something, and yet think they are experts....
I've heard tell of people complaining to the FAA based on things they heard (or thought they heard) on United's "Channel 9" cockpit radio audio. Those are people who ruin it for the rest of us.
 
I was wandering through youtube videos and came across the attached which appears to be the grade crossing in question just west of the Hammond station.



Fast forward to 1:15 to see the horn usage by the engineer. Seems to me the engineer used the horn to warn the photographer given his proximity to the track rather than blow for a rail crossing. Definitely was not the typical long, long, short, long.

For what it's worth, I would not classify the video as hilarious.
 
Yes, that's the crossing the OP mentioned in his since-deleted post. That's Calumet Ave, near Horseshoe Casino.

That video was filmed in May 2012. I'm surprised not one single person has reported the issue to NS. That, or they fixed it and it's broken again.
 
I once actually had a passenger wait for me at the galley after a flight to tell me that I had failed to set the flaps properly for take-off, and planned to report me to the FAA. I asked him if he was qualified to fly the 757, and he said no, but flew it on his computer. I smiled and walked away... People can be dangerous, when they know just a small amount about something, and yet think they are experts....
I've heard tell of people complaining to the FAA based on things they heard (or thought they heard) on United's "Channel 9" cockpit radio audio. Those are people who ruin it for the rest of us.
Thats why, many times I would not turn it on. Now, many of our aircraft don't even have this option.
 
The photographer is definitely an idiot.

If you look to the right of the tracks as the engine approaches you can see the Phil Schmidt restaurant that has gone out of business. Gf and I ate many a meal there. I think I once drove across that crossing. Never noticed the gate failing. But you can bet I was careful because I knew that was a busy railroa.
 
Thats why, many times I would not turn it on. Now, many of our aircraft don't even have this option.
I've noticed -- very sad. The captains on my United flights had it turned on more often than not, and I only ever heard controllers and pilots being completely professional (well, maybe not one helicopter pilot who ended up being told to "call this number after you land" by an L.A.-area controller).
 
Interestingly, on a flight to India, the Iranian en route controller sounded more professional and prompt than the Afghanistani - er American controller of the Afghan air space. :) The Pakistani controllers were the ones that did their non standard "Salaam Aleikum" greeting, not the Iranians or any of the ones in the other Stans that we flew over. India was back to normal except an occasional "Namaste" that was exchanged between the controller and an Indian flight. Did not notice that happen with a non-Indian airline. But the airspace above Mumbai seemed almost scary with everyone talking over each other trying to get a "direct" routing to somewhere or the other and most getting turned down. It was entertaining.
 
There is the old saying that a person may "know just enough to be dangerous". There's a lot of truth in that expression, and it applies both to this thread, and to B757Guy's example above.
Instead of helping the OP decide what to do and, possibly, why not because what it could mean if an innocent engineer gets blamed, a few people on this site really know how to dump on someone. "should i make a complaint (heads up) of this and if so, to who?"
 
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